Dedicated Yote gun=22-250 or 220 swift or 243 or?


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slabuda
April 6, 2010, 12:09 AM
Round advice, then possibly rifle.

And no I wont use it on deer out here in Idaho, I have my 270 WSM A-Bolt for that.


Ok I have a Weatherby Vanguard Varmint in .223 but might start looking for a more dedicated Yote gun. I want to get a leap not a step up from the .223. Thinking the ability to shoot heavier bullets than the 50gr ish V-Max would help long range energy and wind bucking ability.

Requirements are accuracy, accuracy, accuracy. Meaning flat shooting with a longer MBR than the .223

Ammo availability. No odd calibers that are great for hand loaders but not so much for commercial.

Price--I dont want to spend what I do on 270 WSM hunting rounds, but it doesn't need to be as cheap as my .223. I mean I wont be at a dog town shooting hundreds of rounds a day. Other than sight in or some range time it will be limited to predator/long range varmint hunting.

Any Ideas? I know many rifles are hard to find in 220 swift these days. So keep that in mind when suggesting rifles to go with the round. I wont spend silly money on a rifle but dont need to go as inexpensive as the Vanguard either.


So lets hear it guys....

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slabuda
April 6, 2010, 12:29 AM
Hhhmmm 25-06? Seems a good flat shooter.

Oh BTW I do wish to stay away from the WSSM's etc And stick with more traditional rounds.

John.Brunner
April 6, 2010, 01:06 AM
Hi Slabuda,

I'm pretty OCD about coyote hunting - they're all I've been hunting for the last 10 years or so. I guess there are two schools of thought on the right round for yotes - hunting for fur, or not.

If you're hunting for fur, the .22-250 is probably the highest you want to go, and even that's going to be rough on them. Your .223 or even something smaller would be the way to go.

If you're not hunting for fur, I would say stay away from .223 completely...

Now, before I get flamed by the .223 folks, I want to emphasize that I hunt almost exclusively at night - so shot placement is often a bit harder than it is when you're hunting in broad daylight... at night, the .223 doesn't have enough punch to consistently drop dogs on the spot if you bungle your shot placement a bit - which is what's going to happen about every time when you're out at night :-)

I would say the .22-250 is the minimum caliber for hunting yotes, especially if you're hunting at night. Yes, I know people shoot them with .22's and .17's, and that's their perogative, but starting at the .22-250 means you're going to have a lot less runners - nice both from a recovery point of view, and from a responsible hunter point of view. I love hunting, but hate the thought of wounding an animal and have it die an agonizing death over a period of hours.

The .243 is also a brilliant round for yotes - especially if you reload. You can tune it down or up to suit your purpose and it gives you such a wide range of options, from varmint shooting to deer. I'm really hoping to get an H.S. precision or other custom gun in .243 made this summer, as it's just such a sweet round.

I guess it's horses for courses, but my favorite gun for coyotes, especially at night, is the 30-30 carbine. Most of my shots at night are within 50-75 yards, and the 30-30 might as well be a nuke at that range.

Cheers,

John

rangerruck
April 6, 2010, 01:26 AM
As most know, I am a 243 whore for most anything- but I am zeroing in a bit on your ' long, flat trajectory' comment. know then, with what you mentioned above, I would say the 243 ammo, for a centfire , is about as cheap, and as plentiful as you will find, with many diff makers of factory ammo, and in a wide variety of weights; from 55 grains up to 115 dtacs. For yotes, anything from the 68's to the 85's , are nice and lasery-ish?
That being said, someone else here mentioned the 25.06.
Though I love the 243, the 25.06 is going to be the longer, flatter shooting round, and you should be able to find a moa accurate factory load, for whatever rifle you find, and it is still a round that is sold everywhere, and also not a lot of money. You should be able to find it from anywhere from 10 to 17 bucks a box; if you can find the monarch made , steel case stuff, that will be the 10 dollar stuff. Federal, plain blue box, should be able to find on sale for about 13 bucks a box, or thereabouts.
anything below 100 grains, up to 110 grains, is going to shoot like a white light, out to 400 yards.
the 243 really needs a 24 inch or longer, to max out the factory loads, and still is a bit weak for speed, in my opinion- this really shines with handloading. The 25's , factory loaded, are just usually faster all around... an 85 grainer listed, usually goes about 3500 fps or faster, and with a 200 yd zero, only drops 10 to 15 inches at 400 yds, depending on your mileage...

slabuda
April 6, 2010, 01:58 AM
It was me that mentioned the 25-06.

If I get one I expect shoot bullets in the 85gr range.

As far as pelts, well if its a nice shaggy one Id keep it, but Im not serious about them. Rather thin them out to keep the Sage Grouse, Chuckar, Pheasant etc numbers up. Plus the do harass the deer that winter nearby.

I dont know as I have shot those heavy varmint rounds but Id expect something along the lines of a V-Max may possibly punch a big hole on the opposite side. What about a less violent expansion round. like a match bullet? Small in and out but would it stop it quick and not run off and die some place in the sage with not so much of a blood trail?

May start looking and saving for a late year purchase for something in 243 or 25-06?

Abel
April 6, 2010, 07:29 AM
243 would be my choice. Simply because its more of a dual use round in case I need it to shoot whitetail.

longdayjake
April 6, 2010, 10:37 AM
I live in South East Idaho and I love my 25-06. I use it to shoot Rock Chucks with 87 grain bullets and it can also be used to shoot deer. There is no flatter shooting round that I would recommend unless you wanted to go with a 6.5 bullet. If you want fast, flat, and fun the 25-06 really shines, but it doesn't show its true potential until you start reloading for it. That is where you become amazed at the potential of the round.

Hokkmike
April 6, 2010, 10:45 AM
What about the .260 or 5.5x55?

NCsmitty
April 6, 2010, 11:27 AM
If you refuse to learn to reload, you'll be giving up a method that allows you to maximize your potential, in a caliber that you already own.

Visualize your 270 WSM loaded with a 90gr HP at 3700fps, or the new 110gr V-Max at near 3500fps.
There would be few cartridges that could approach the ballistics of that combination.

Growing up, my friend and I started reloading when we were 16 years, and I had a 30'06 and he had a 270 Win. He used the Sierra 90gr HP and that rifle made some amazing long shots on woodchucks.

Your 270 WSM raises the bar, and it's a shame that you cannot take advantage of that by reloading.



NCsmitty

viking499
April 6, 2010, 11:33 AM
Mine is a 1968 Winchester model 70 in 243 currently shooting factory Federal 55 grain Nosler ammo under an inch at a 100. Leaving the muzzle at 3850 ft/sec according to the Federal website. Figure that will work just fine.:D

Had a 22-250, but not my cup of tea.

Got a 223. Good for "short range". But to me, just not a ballistics "positive round". I like it, but to me, there are better choices.

I like the 204 also. Had one at one time, until I found the 243 federal load that works for me.

When comparing the 55 grain 243 and the 32 grain 204, it looks like this...........

243-
Muzzle - 3850
300 yds - 2721
energy 300 yds - 904
wind drift 300 yards - 7.9
Sight in at 100, drop at 300 is - 6.6

204-
Muzzle - 4030
300 yds - 2523
energy 300 yds - 452
wind drift 300 yards - 10.6
Sight in at 100, drop at 300 is - 6.8

Other than the 204 being easier on the shoulder over a period of time, i will stick with the 243.

rangerruck
April 6, 2010, 11:42 AM
beside the 25. loaded with hollow points or soft points, which will both punch holes, and give some expansion through a yote, you really need not worry about a large exit hole. Yotes are not that tough; thin skin, thin bones.
Otherwise, i am gonna agree with nc smitty here- I never thought about it, but the wsm carts are outstanding above all others for reloading; the amount you can download or up load them, and the amount of speed you can get out of them, above the parent cart., is amazing. And the 270 outshines them all, as far as speed gains go. I imagine loading something in the 100 to 110 grain area, would make this also a white line laser.
Remember, for the cost of a new rifle, you can get yourself a complete reloading station, with everything you need to start, and powders, and proly some cases as well...

Art Eatman
April 6, 2010, 12:13 PM
I don't care what you use, once you're out past 300 yards you're dealing with wind. Somewhat the same about trajectory, really. .223 or .25-06 or in between, your own skill is what makes the difference.

IMO, then, it's an energy deal if you're talking the 400-yard game on Ol' Wily. More opinion, but I don't think that any .22 centerfire really shines at that distance on coyotes. Prairie dogs or feral cats? Yeah. I'd go with the .243, myself.

Federal's 85-grain Sierra load for the .243 shoots as tight a group as my handloads with that bullet. Three behind a dime is no big deal. They were twenty or so years behind me in learning that, but they finally fingered it out.

But if what I had at the moment was a .223 and a .270, I'd first get into the handloading game. Plenty of good-used gear around, and the only thing that I'd buy new would be the dies.

Eyesac
April 6, 2010, 02:14 PM
Another vote for .243 for the above reasons.

Brian Williams
April 6, 2010, 02:34 PM
Around here a lot of night shooters use the 17machIII, a 221 Fireball necked to 17.

Larry Ashcraft
April 6, 2010, 02:51 PM
My favorite is the 25-06 with a 100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip loaded to 3300 fps. Its a hammer out to 500 yds and beyond. Not good for fur hunters, though.

mystery
April 6, 2010, 06:47 PM
Dedicated Yote gun=22-250 or 220 swift or 243 or?

or..... 5.45x39

slabuda
April 6, 2010, 10:01 PM
NCsmitty
Your 270 WSM raises the bar, and it's a shame that you cannot take advantage of that by reloading.


Trust me Id love to reload, but money, and TIME really is the factor. I hardly have time to tie up flies for fly fishing which makes up 70% of my time spent outdoors.

Maybe once I get this sleep apnea under control and start to get some rest and not be as exhausted everyday I will find time for it. Its just not on the table in the near future.

usmc1371
April 7, 2010, 12:29 AM
+1 for the 25-06, lots of good factory rounds in enough configs to suit your needs. I have a .204 that I love for varmints but if I am walking out the door just looking for coyotes then its the 25-06 I reach for, .204 kills dogs but the 25 puts them down alot faster and more so as the range gets longer.

Old Shooter
April 7, 2010, 12:36 AM
Go for the .243.

Great vamrit cartridge, good ranging, reasonably priced ammo available everywhere and a wide selection of weights/manufacturers.

If you do eventually reload for it you can tweak some great loads in just about any rifle.

slabuda
April 7, 2010, 02:04 AM
Seems split between 243 and 25-06.

Looks like when I get money for a scope and rifle I will see what I get the best deal on. Think Ill be pleased as punch with either.

And heck if a deal comes up I can always wait to get a scope....This is a rifle I wantr a GOOD long range scope for. Thinking Leupold witht he varmint reticle in about 6-18+?


BTW this may take a while to happen :(

slabuda
April 7, 2010, 02:26 AM
Visualize your 270 WSM loaded with a 90gr HP at 3700fps, or the new 110gr V-Max at near 3500fps.
There would be few cartridges that could approach the ballistics of that combination.


Hmm this is interesting. But Ill say one thing. I will use this for a deer/elk gun out in Idaho. For big game dont want to go with a long varmint scope as things really can pop up close in the mountains. I have a 3x9 bushnell 3200 elite on it now. Not the best scope but its not bad.

Now IF I had it loaded like above Id for sure want a 6x18/20 or so. NOt ideal for thick timber even on 6X I would think.

Be a lot of re scoping or at least re-sighting in.

But if those are loads you know are in a cook book and have used or know someone who has used them, thats amazing!!!

sscoyote
April 7, 2010, 03:30 AM
M favorite long-range coyote recipe...so far, has to be the 243/87 V-Max for the best compromise of velocity, bullet BC, and terminal ballistics to ~800 yds. The 25-06 with 100 or 115 Ballistic Tip oughtta' be mighty close though...if not a scoche better (115 at least).

I also save the fur, but don't mind sewing too much--only adds 10 minutes at the most onto the fur handling process.

I've used many optics on coyote rigs over the years and am gonna try the Bushnell 4-12 3200 with Ballistic Reticle (now discontinued) as soon as i get in the mail.

twofifty
April 7, 2010, 03:32 AM
John.Brunner, that has got to be one of the best first posts ever.

NCsmitty
April 7, 2010, 11:22 AM
But if those are loads you know are in a cook book

slabuda, if you want to see the list for loads, click on the link and view the results.

www.hodgdon.com

The 270 WSM starting loads for 90gr Sierra are over 3600fps and the Max loads shows 3789fps.




NCsmitty

jonboynumba1
April 7, 2010, 11:57 AM
well you know...with the right bullet for the right task it just really comes down to what you like and want...me...I like heavier bullets and while many like the hopped up barrel burners with super fast superlight bullets (than most for varmint use)....ehhh I like .243 with the apropriate weight and design bullet...I just feel it's balanced right...and heavier blows around a little less in the wind...some of those are great rounds on a calm day and all over the place on a 7-10MPH day. Without adding that it's also more versatile if you load it heavy for caliber on medium sized game...since that's not an upside for you...it also depends if you are more a groundhog capper or a yote-dawg chaser...but either way I'd tend to gravitate strongly towards .243 on that one. Just cause I like it (and have dies powder and brass for it already...and no interest in the other calibers mentioned)

Art Eatman
April 7, 2010, 12:26 PM
As far as scopes, I found that my 2x7 was plenty good for prairie dogs at 300 yards. With a different rifle, a 3x9 was plenty good on them to 400. I'm less excitable about high magnification, compared to most folks...

Kentucky_Rifleman
April 7, 2010, 02:31 PM
I was just bragging on the -06 in another thread. :) If you are willing to handload, or get someone to do it for you, the 25-06 will amaze you. I use the same load for coyotes and groundhogs, a 75 grain Hornady hollow point. It is flat shooting, has intense range, and is more resistant to wind drift than the lighter .22 calibers. It has much greater long-range potential than the .243 (another caliber I like very much).

You also mentioned particular rifles. Anyone who reads my postings will recognize me as a devout fan of older Remingtons. Any of the older 700s chambered in 25-06 will make an excellent shooter. Mine will hold sub-MOA with no modifications, but mine is a 1974 vintage, and the newer 700s are not the rifles the older ones were.

My father-in-law has the Savage American Classic in 25.06. He bought it new last year, and it is a splendid rifle. We did do away with the Accu-trigger and replaced it with a Timney, but that was more a matter of personal taste, and the factory Accu-triggers have many fans.

Sadly, Thompson Center doesn't offer their amazing Icon in 25-06, or I would recommend it. My father-in-law bought his first Icon early last year, chambered in .243, and was so pleased with the rifle that he has since bought 3 more in .300 TC, .308, and .22-250. They are all Sub-MOA out of the box, and the quality is superior.

KR

farmallmta
April 7, 2010, 03:19 PM
Hey, did anybody mentioned the .222 Remington?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.222_Remington

I find my Remington 788 in .222 with a good scope is just deadly for coyotes, feral dogs, skunks, and various other pesky varmints.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_788

I reload so good ammo is as cheap as .223 Remington. Why .222? It's more accurate than the .223, is why.

Uncle Mike
April 7, 2010, 03:26 PM
Of the three you mention...the .243 get the nod!

More wind bucking potential and more energy delivered at longer ranges.

Geno
April 7, 2010, 03:36 PM
You just can't go wrong with .243 Win, .260 Rem, 7-08 Rem or .308 Win. In the long action, good bets are the .25-06, or even a .270 Win. I personally opted for the .308 Win.

Geno

SwampWolf
April 7, 2010, 04:35 PM
My vote's for the Swift. But if ammo availability off the shelf is a primary concern, the .22-250 might be a better alternative.

joed
April 7, 2010, 08:01 PM
The .25-06 has been my favorite for 32 years. I don't think you'd be short changed using factory ammo either if you don't want to reload. The trajectory is about as flat as you'd want with an amazing amount of energy behind the bullet.

Choice is yours, but mine was the .25-06 a long time ago. Never regretted it for 1 minute.

Uncle Mike
April 7, 2010, 09:23 PM
It's hard to beat the venerable 25-06 for dog sized game, even deer sized game shivers at the thought! lol

XxWINxX94
April 7, 2010, 11:45 PM
Rem 700 in .22-250, but get the wood stock!

BBstacker
April 8, 2010, 04:09 PM
I just bought a Savage mod16 Fhss in a 22-250 for hunting coyotes in upstate Pa..Took it to the range yesterday shoots great. I only shot it on the 100 yrd. range. Next time I'll try it on the upper range that go's out to 500 yrds. I have a .243 win. I can use but I just wanted to get a .22cal. Most of my shoots will be under 100 yds.

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