Full Auto Tokarev?


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spartanpride
April 6, 2010, 02:35 AM
What the heck!? Is it just slam fire or what? Just came across the video and was curious as to what you guys think of this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW3Jszavkjg&feature=related
(Wasn't quite sure if this should be in NFA, Handguns, or General)

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Bovice
April 6, 2010, 02:45 AM
Looks like a defect, judging on what he wrote in the video description and comments. He better not get caught playing around with that. It's hilarious how he misses his target even at 4-5 feet away. Like the bottles on that dresser, the grapefruit, and the red ball.

JoeSlomo
April 6, 2010, 03:38 AM
Any pistol designed to fire in the semi-automatic role that fires in the automatic role is defective.

cauberallies
April 6, 2010, 03:54 AM
That's cool to see something like that, but they aren't doing themselves a favor by putting that on the internet. If the new Youtube format wouldn't crash my browser if I tried, I'd send them a message explaining the potential gravity of the situation. Someone should do that.

essayons21
April 6, 2010, 10:09 AM
Any pistol designed to fire in the semi-automatic role that fires in the automatic role is defective.

And will get you 10+ years in the slammer.

If the new Youtube format wouldn't crash my browser if I tried, I'd send them a message explaining the potential gravity of the situation. Someone should do that.

Over half the comments say just that.

spartanpride
April 6, 2010, 03:04 PM
I guess they got the point, the video is already removed!

CoRoMo
April 6, 2010, 03:08 PM
I wonder if anyone downloaded and saved the video. It could be re-posted anywhere and everywhere now. This shows how ill-informed of the law many shooters are. I also wonder if they'll actually do anything appropriate with that gun.:scrutiny:

Zoogster
April 6, 2010, 03:13 PM
Cool video while it lasted.

I had been wondering how the 7.62x25 would handle on full auto from a handgun. Seems to do quite well, and quite controllable. By the end of the short video they had become fairly decent at keeping all rounds in a smaller circle at very close range emptying the entire mag, while at the start they were horrible.
A few more times at the range and I bet they could have learned to keep all rounds in the center of a torso at 10-20 yards with full mag dumps, and probably much better firing in bursts.

It's hilarious how he misses his target even at 4-5 feet away. Like the bottles on that dresser, the grapefruit, and the red ball.

He hit every target in the video with at least some rounds including the red ball and grapfruit, except for the bottles on the top of the dresser. But to be honest from the angle he shot the dresser I am not sure he was aiming at the bottles and not the dresser itself. His aim appeared to be at the center of the dresser, not the bottles or anywhere near the top.

Now if someone would just have an similar defect with an FN 5.7x28. I have a feeling that .22 would be very controllable in full auto for a handgun and would find such a video educational.



As for legal ramifications. An initial accidental mag dump from a defect is one thing. Proceeding to shoot hundreds of rounds (and recording it all and posting it on the net) is clearly not an accident, and can quickly become someone using a non-registered "machinegun" well after they are aware of the problem.

blackwell bikes
April 6, 2010, 03:31 PM
They seem to be easy to convert if you have even a little mechanical knowledge. i doubt the pistol malfunctioned it was more likly converted on purpose.

FIVETWOSEVEN
April 6, 2010, 06:02 PM
I wish I saw it, hopefully someone copied it.

Bovice
April 6, 2010, 06:50 PM
lol I think they wised up and deleted it.

either that or the ATF are hot on their tails.

Sam1911
April 6, 2010, 07:17 PM
I wish I saw it, hopefully someone copied it.
You TRULY didn't miss much.
Some goofball doing his over-the-top Rambo impression with a dangerously malfunctioning firearm and committing a federal felony. The death metal soundtrack that started about 1/2 way through the video was a nice touch. Made him look a bit more, you know, serious-y.

But, if you ever wanted to know how to shoot a piece of fruit from (literally) 3 INCHES away (or a chest of drawers from two paces) with a runaway illegal firearm, well, then you probably did miss out.

YAWN.

FIVETWOSEVEN
April 6, 2010, 09:16 PM
It was a runaway? Anyone can make a runaway.

Sam1911
April 6, 2010, 09:21 PM
It was a runaway?Somewhat unclear. Was it a runaway, an out-of-battery / slamfire special (most likely with the disconnector ground and the hammer just following), or actually converted with some kind of auto sear arrangement?

They guy's comments didn't go that far. He just claimed that it came that way and he thought it was cool.

FIVETWOSEVEN
April 6, 2010, 09:29 PM
It could have come that way but he would need to replace the hammer pack, The russians designed the gun to switch packs right?

Sam1911
April 6, 2010, 09:34 PM
It could have come that way but he would need to replace the hammer pack, The russians designed the gun to switch packs right? Yes, the fire control group is a replaceable unit but none were select-fire or full auto on purpose. It may have arrived in his hands in that condition but it wasn't purposefully built that way.

LoneCoon
April 7, 2010, 12:50 AM
Am I wrong in thinking that the Scorpion was a full auto that used the Tokerov cartridge?

Edit: no, that shoots .32ACP A much uglier gun was meant for the Tokerov round, the PPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPS_submachine_gun)

ijosef
April 7, 2010, 01:44 AM
I think the PPS looks cool, although I'm probably in the minority with that opinion. It would seem to be that the 7.62x25mm Tokarev would benefit a lot from a carbine-length barrel, much moreso than other calibers used in sub guns at the time (9mm and .45acp). It seems to have the higher case capacity necessary for a greater leap in performance than other pistol calibers.

WardenWolf
April 7, 2010, 02:24 AM
Chances are they modified it to make it this way. However, it could also be missing its firing pin spring and slamfiring.

Chris taylor
April 7, 2010, 03:16 AM
Not that uncommon to have slamfires... I've actually heard a story that a guy brought a makarov into a gun shop because it was jamming, smithy polished the feed ramp and came back to the counter. He cycled 3 live rounds through it to check if it was any smoother... needless to say there where 3 holes in the floor full auto! Smith asked if he ever cleans his guns... "Ohhh i never clean my autos..." :what: Turns out it had a solid chunk of cosmoline behind the firing pin! :banghead:

WardenWolf
April 7, 2010, 04:17 AM
That's nasty. But it's a much more major issue for the Makarov because it has a free-floating firing pin. The Tokarev is supposed to have a firing pin spring, but if the spring has broken or been removed, it theoretically could slamfire, as could any other 1911-style gun that lacks a firing pin safety.

mongo4567
April 7, 2010, 07:35 AM
I had a buddy do that with mine; he was getting doubles and triples. There was nothing wrong with the Tokarev. My buddy considers himself to be "tactical"....read way to many forum posts on self defense and rapid fire. When firing, he holds the trigger for a short reset and then starts releasing it very slowly during the firing cycle...he never fully releases the trigger. He was in effect bump firing the pistol.

Sam1911
April 7, 2010, 07:48 AM
That still sounds like a malfunction. No handgun should have to have the trigger "fully released" to keep from "bump firing."

If the trigger moves back far enough to fire, the disconnector should prevent another round from going off. If the trigger is allowed to return to the reset point, it should be ready to fire again but not go off on its own or simply from the inertia of cycling motion.

If your buddy could "bump fire" your Tokarev on demand, one-handed, it does sound like a very dangerous malfunction.

Knowing the feel of your trigger's reset point, and not wasting motion by lifting completely to the "rest" position is an important part of pistol shooting. If it causes the gun to go cyclic, get it fixed!

Zoogster
April 8, 2010, 05:01 AM
You TRULY didn't miss much.
Some goofball doing his over-the-top Rambo impression with a dangerously malfunctioning firearm and committing a federal felony. The death metal soundtrack that started about 1/2 way through the video was a nice touch. Made him look a bit more, you know, serious-y.

But, if you ever wanted to know how to shoot a piece of fruit from (literally) 3 INCHES away (or a chest of drawers from two paces) with a runaway illegal firearm, well, then you probably did miss out.

Yes it was rather immature. The individuals did not choose to challenge themselves with the aim of improving their skills either.

However if one looked past the poor choice in music, and the immature acting, a full auto 7.62x25 pistol in action was interesting.
In fact the rather unskilled nature of the shooter in my opinion showed just how controllable the cartridge was in full auto from a handgun.
Even that moron firing one handed with no skill did not have enough muzzle flip to send rounds into the sky.
By the end of the video clearly after firing many magazines even he could keep all of his rounds in the general area he was aiming towards.
So with two hands and some more skill it would appear there was potential in a full auto Tokarev. Interesting considering the power and known penetration capabilities of the round.

FIVETWOSEVEN
April 10, 2010, 11:05 PM
Its a fast 8 rounds though.

50caliber123
April 11, 2010, 10:34 AM
I have seen for sale Tokarev's with 9mm luger barrels, that also use the same magazines as the 7.62 for eight rounds in that caliber. Someone mentioned what the tok round could do out of a rifle length barrel. Is it possible to find a PPS or PPH barrel, and have a good gunsmith swap it for a hi-point 995's 9mm barrel? Cheap way to experiment with that idea. Under $300 to find out

FIVETWOSEVEN
April 12, 2010, 07:14 PM
You could always get a Semi-auto 16" PPSH 43

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