glaser safty slugs or magsafe?


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cajun47
April 7, 2010, 02:11 AM
for my s&w .44 mag. i keep it between my seat and armrest in my vehicle.

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RevolvingGarbage
April 7, 2010, 02:34 AM
Is there any particular reason you feel you need to use either?

A good .44spl JHP will penetrate plenty enough to be effective but wont likely plow on through anything in its path like a full house .44 Magnum.

Glaser and other lightweight ammo designed for rapid upset is generally considered to be less than desirable because if its tendancy to inflict a relatively shallow wound.

snooperman
April 7, 2010, 10:17 AM
then that type of ammo might be for you. It is primarily designed for that type of application. That said, the MagSafe-Glaser safety slug ammo has some drawbacks as well depending on the use of it . It is not in my opinion a DO-ALL type of ammo. It is not good if you have to shoot through glass at your opponent. You have to think through what type of scenario you might find yourself in, which can change with time etc.

Sam1911
April 7, 2010, 10:29 AM
Certainly an odd combination. (Large, powerful cartridge + frangible ammo)

Make sure you aren't buying hype. Figure out why you think you want to carry that stuff and then do a lot of testing to make sure it will do what you think you want it to do.

If you're strongly considering it from the overpenetration angle in "social" situations (I'm assuming as this is your car gun), I'd check out what your local police department carries. Chances are they're using a standard JHP round in 9mm or .40 (not a "safety slug" prefragmented, frangible whatever) -- which gives you a realistic basis for making your own educated choice.

halfded
April 7, 2010, 10:44 AM
Take a moment to consider the very real possibility of having to shoot through your car window/door.

Those frangible deals just won't do the job. Go with a quality JHP and ride confidently.

The Bushmaster
April 7, 2010, 11:02 AM
Neither one. Go with a good self defense JHP .44 Special round.

LawofThirds
April 7, 2010, 07:31 PM
Neither one. They're like birdshot. Shallow, messy wounds result from both.

A good 44 special JHP or a low power .44 mag in JHP or SWCHP. There's plenty of options, the buffalo bore stuff seems to open up well.

Starter52
April 7, 2010, 08:42 PM
I like the Glaser Safety Slug. Glasers have been around for decades and have stood the test of time. Just my 2 cents.

351 WINCHESTER
April 7, 2010, 10:02 PM
The original magsafes as made by Joe Zamboni were actually pretty potent. I watched his videos and from .38 up to .45acp penetration was good enough on a frontal shot to make a real nasty non suviable wound. He shot into gel with various calibers and thru corned beef. Results were impressive for about 6" or so and most of the hardened pellets (#2 birdshot) went to about 9". Not the best penetration and not enough for all s/d situations. I never tried shooting thru glass, but I shot a couple of 1 gal. jugs of water with my .38 snubbie and it made a mess of the first one and most of the pellets were found in the second. If I knew I would have to shoot someone head on I think they would perform better than a lot of other loads. His loads from a 2" .38 were going from 1670fps to over 2000 and some of his hotter .45acp loads were going over 2100 fps.

I tried the glasers in .38 and was very disappointed with them. Advertised velocity was something like 1600fps from a 2", but we only got about 1100 from a 4".

I cannot comment on the newer magsafes, but woud stay away from anything below a .38, if at all. Like I said he loaded them hot.

mljdeckard
April 7, 2010, 10:08 PM
I would not trust my life to frangible ammo. For all of the reasons stated above.

Look at it this way. If this is your car gun, why would you possibly want it to penetrate LESS than any other gun? If you have to use it, it means that you are in your car, you can't drive away from the threat, and now you have to shoot your way out. You may need to shoot through your door, THROUGH YOUR WINDSHIELD, or back into another car that is shooting at you. Not is not the time for minimal penetration, if there ever is one.

351 WINCHESTER
April 7, 2010, 10:15 PM
Oh, so we're shooting thru winshields and car doors. The min. handgun I would trust would be a .357 and no, I would not want any frangible ammo.

HOWARD J
April 7, 2010, 10:42 PM
I saw a video that was testing ammo.
A 357 glaser penetrated both sides of a car--it did not break-up.
Fired into jell-it blew little balls in all directions--nasty.
When wife was full time in the emergency room--she said that they could not save people hit with glasers....................bummer

mljdeckard
April 7, 2010, 11:02 PM
I'm less interested in an ER point of view than that from the morgue.

gofastman
April 8, 2010, 12:16 AM
Howard J that seams like a real problem to me, If I have to shoot someone, its to stop them ASAP, not make them bleed out in the ER.

pete950
April 8, 2010, 12:54 AM
if you can find them
1. Federal 200 gr SWCHP
2. Win 200 gr silver tip

Sam1911
April 8, 2010, 07:38 AM
Win 200 gr silver tip Just not in .44 Spc. Those suck.

The box I bought chrono'd at only a hair over 700 fps. out of my 4" 629. No way I'm carrying a 42 oz. 6-shot gun to shoot a round so inferior to what a .45 ACP will do.

HOWARD J
April 8, 2010, 09:18 AM
@gofastman

It appears that your definition " to stop" is to kill.
Not everyone that is "stopped" dies immediately.
Many people that are shot are saved in a hospital.
Take care.......................

Sam1911
April 8, 2010, 09:27 AM
It appears that your definition " to stop" is to kill.


That may be what he meant, but that's not what I got out of it.

Not everyone that is "stopped" dies immediately.


And not everyone that dies from their wounds is "stopped" immediately, either.

I read it as, "I want the attack to stop NOW. What happens later in the hospital is not important to that point." Meaning, a lot of things will kill you eventually. A few pellets that make it through and damage internal organs may make the bad guy bleed out on the way to the hospital, but they might not immediately stop the attack, especially if they don't power through to the CNS.

As a general thing, I still will prefer to carry something like what my local LEOs would choose. And that's pretty universally not a specialty, pre-fragmented, frangible, or "safety" slug of some kind.

HOWARD J
April 8, 2010, 09:43 AM
I have seen these real cop videos--guy gets shot with .45 at 3'--he does not even slow down.
Presidents men get shot with .22--they hit the ground like a ton of bricks !!!
go figure ????????????????

Sam1911
April 8, 2010, 09:49 AM
Go figure, indeed.

Everything is a roll of the dice, and everyone has to decide how they will try to stack the deck in their favor.

(Now how's that for a mixed metaphor? ;))

HOWARD J
April 8, 2010, 09:56 AM
Winter time I carry a Glock 26 with hydra-shoks
Warm weather-carry a Kel-Tec P3-AT with buffalo Bore 90gr. JHP
Have fun.......................

mljdeckard
April 8, 2010, 08:28 PM
Handguns are inferior tools for the job to begin with. Frangible ammo does not increase your chances of stopping the bad guy before he hurts you.

gofastman
April 8, 2010, 08:44 PM
What I meant was- why would you carry something that is arguably vastly inferior to a good JHP in terms of stopping power but has as high or higher mortality rate?

I'm not gonna get into a philosophical debate here, but I would much rather shoot someone, have them drop immediately, and then be resuscitated in the hospital. If a multi round taser that could penetrate barriers was available you would never catch me in public with a gun again. just my $.02

FoMoGo
April 8, 2010, 11:15 PM
If someone puts me in a position to shoot them... a life and death situation... they have taken their life into their hands.
I will not shoot to wound.
I will shoot to stop.
My stop targeting zone is from the eyes to the groin and about 8 inches wide, preferably dead center of that 8 inches... and about 1/3 of the way down.
If a person forces me to clear leather, there is a SERIOUS issue that needs to be handled in a most serious and effective way.
If the trigger is pulled they will more than likely be 2 holes, 1 front-1 back, letting blood out and air in.
If they dont cease what they are doing that brought this situation to a head, there will be at least 2 more holes.
This is what people who carry REALLY need to look at.
If you are put in a situation to defend yourself, even if you shoot them in the toe, you HAVE used deadly force.
If you are not willing to follow thru with the chain of events you could put into motion by having a gun on you... get a big dog.


Jim

frankge
April 9, 2010, 11:07 AM
when wife got her .38 they gave her magsafe 110+P bullets. I carry Golden Saber and was thinking about switching her to them. That what I carry in my 9sub and 45. Thoughts?

mljdeckard
April 9, 2010, 12:42 PM
Does your wife deserve less effective ammo than you do?

LawofThirds
April 9, 2010, 07:31 PM
Just make sure that they shoot to point of aim, most fixed sight guns will shoot low with the 125g Golden Sabers. Other than that, they're a great round.

logical
April 11, 2010, 10:34 AM
cajun-

Give us a little more to go on here. Are you asking for a comparrison of those two rounds? Are you asking about them in general? Why did you choose a .44 mag and what is the significance of where you keep it tucked? What ammo is in it now? Who or what are you anticipating defending against or otherwise shooting?

Virginian
April 11, 2010, 03:04 PM
I have carried Glasers in 357 and 44 for many years, and I have never felt poorly armed. I have also used them a few times on game or varmints with good results; I shoot them up and get new every so often. I have never heard of a documented case of them not performing. I hear lots of theoretical put downs, but no real data. Back when I first started I tried them on double sheetrock on 2x4s and was pleased at how they mostly stopped in the second sheet. It has been a looong time, but the scant actual shooting results on them were quite good as I recall, but the numbers were too few to get included in the statistics. Last I checked the 125gr. semi jacketed HP 357 was still the number one one-shot stopper, but I don't feel undergunned with 240gr SWCs or Glasers in my 44 Special, either.

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