Dillon Square Deal


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kestak
April 8, 2010, 09:05 AM
Greetings,

Is there any way to use standard dies in a Dillon Square Deal?

Thank you

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Taurus 617 CCW
April 8, 2010, 09:19 AM
Nope, the square deal B has its own set of dies that can not be used in a standard press. If you want to use standard dies you will have to move up to the 550 or 650 presses. That's why I got rid of my SDB press.

kestak
April 8, 2010, 09:27 AM
Greetings,

Arrrg... I wanted a cheaper progressive autoindexing that uses my dies.

I have 1 turret, 2 single stage and a 550B and wanted another progressive always setup....

Thank you

bds
April 8, 2010, 09:54 AM
kestak, Lee Pro 1000 will accept any standard dies.

It is the lowest priced and most underrated progressive press you can buy - $78 for the press, $160 for the kit. http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=1&categoryId=8601&categoryString=9315***731***680***&brandId=1262&sortBy=RetailPrice%20asc
If you load multiple calibers, various press parts (shell plate, shell plate carrier, etc.) are also the lowest price of any progressive press; therefore reduces the overall reloading setup cost. Even with factoring in the separate deprime/size and handpriming times, it is capable of loading 400-600 rounds per hour.

I have successfully loaded over several hundred thousand rounds on two Pro 1000s, but you must be brave to use one because you'll be flamed by many for using one. :D

Only issue I will point out is the primer feed attachment that works about 95% of the times. Since I deprime/size and hand prime separately, this is no longer an issue for me.

If you choose to go with the Pro 1000, here are some threads to help you:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6183094#post6183094

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6304313#post6304313

kestak
April 8, 2010, 10:11 AM
Greetings,

I look at it and read comments/problems people got with the Lee Pro.

It scares me a little bit to have to run into problems. My Dillon 550B is running very smoothly once I learned how to use it. I even considered another 550B but I wanted something a little bit faster with auto indexing.

Thank you

Rollis R. Karvellis
April 8, 2010, 10:32 AM
Bite the bullet, and get the 650, join the rest of use on the DARK BLUE SIDE. Also known as mindless Dillon zombies. It only hurt's for a little while.

bds
April 8, 2010, 10:36 AM
It scares me a little bit to have to run into problems.

kestak, I have helped many new reloaders/match shooters set up with a new Pro 1000 with repeated "smooth as silk" reliable repeatable results.

Most of the Pro 1000 problems are caused by improper cleaning/lubrication and shellplate timing (and users forcing the press to cycle instead of stopping and investigating what's causing the problem) - I already mentioned that primer feed attachment works about 95% of the time and since you already have a single stage, if you opt to deprime/resize and hand prime separately, you won't run into the primer feed issue.

I normally lightly lube all contact points with leftover synthetic motor oil (or you can buy a bottle for life-time supply) and adjust/check the shellplate timing before each reloading session (500 - 3000+ rounds) and have not run into "problems" many people complain about. All of my other Pro 1000 setup users do the same and their results are repeatable to mine. My latest setup for a friend works as smooth as the RCBS Reloader Special 5 single stage press - yes, that smooth. If you lived nearby, I would gladly have you try out my setups.

If you decide to try out the Pro 1000, PM me and I will help you get setup the same way.

kestak
April 8, 2010, 11:09 AM
Greetings,

I am looking at it now.....:D

Looking very hard....:scrutiny:

I may pull the trigger soon...:what:

Thank you

RustyFN
April 8, 2010, 12:05 PM
Other than rethreading the head for a standard die thread i don't know of any way.

kestak
April 8, 2010, 12:28 PM
Greetings,

What about the loadmaster? It is only 238$ compared to 168$.

Thank you

bds
April 8, 2010, 10:16 PM
What about the loadmaster? It is only 238$ compared to 168$.

As posted on many previous threads, Loadmaster is for "mechanically inclined" to setup and maintain. In addition, various parts cost more than Pro 1000.

Mind you, I had the same thought when I chose the Pro 1000 over Dillon 550 (mainly for the auto index and the case feeder features) some 15+ years ago ... "I will start with Pro 1000 and then move on to the Loadmaster."

After 15+ years and several hundred thousand rounds of accurate match loads, my wife even offered to buy me a "better" progressive reloader when she caught me drooling over a Dillon 1050 setup with the motorized case feeder (now, money is no longer an issue).

But she asked me, "Honey, will it load any better bullets?" You know, I had to think really hard about that question. After some long contemplation, my answer to her was a firm and short "No." She still wanted to buy me a present and ordered me 10,000 Winchester FMJ bullets (it was on a dirt cheap MidwayUSA free freight deal years back).

FWIW, I no longer get flamed at the ranges or at the various matches because I reload on the Pro 1000 (They all know now that my Pro 1000 reloads are as accurate or more accurate than their reloads - they have done comparison test shoots and are now believers). I have also noticed some of them quietly having bought the Pro 1000 as their "spare/backup" progressive press. :D

kestak, and many others considering a progressive reloader - do "try" the Pro 1000. If you don't like it, there are many that will gladly take it off of your hands (I for one will) and buy a Dillon 550 (It really is a great progressive press - yes, I have used it). If you find that it consistently loads accurate match grade bullets, keep it. Simple.

YMMV.

BigJakeJ1s
April 8, 2010, 11:30 PM
Don't overlook the Hornady LNL AP. Cheaper than a 550, better than a 650.

Andy

Roccobro
April 9, 2010, 02:59 AM
Is there enough "meat" on the top of the SDB for standard dies? The machinist in me see's holes as just places to make bigger more precise holes. :D

Justin

kestak
April 9, 2010, 06:32 AM
Greetings,

Wife almost OK the purchase of a new toy for me...:D
The problem is when I buy a new toy, she "needs" a new piece to put in her wardrobe. Last time, she "needed" an ACOG on her RRA Car15 :what:

Seriously, I don't care what people say about one press or another, as long as it works. It is why I asked here. You sold me on the Pro 1000 with the references you wrote in your answer.

Now I need to determine what caliber I want to load on it. It will be the one permanently setup for a caliber. Does it perform well with 223? When I load on my Dillon 550B, I previously decapped/sized/trimmed/chamfer/deburr my cases. The first station is empty of die and I use it only to prime. I removed the pin on the second station because I ALWAYS look inside to make sure there is powder. then I put the bullet on the third and crimp in the fourth.

I guess I can prime my 223 before I put it on the Pro 1000. Can I powder on first with autofeed cases, automatically feed bullet on second and check powder inside, then crimp on third?

My goal is two dimension: I really need to speed up compared to what I do on the Dillon with my 223 and I want one permanent setup. If could do my permanent setup in 45acp or 9mm too, but it would be slower to "prepare" the cases (resize/deprime/prime) instead of doing it on the Dillon 550B like I am doing right now.

Thank you

bds
April 9, 2010, 09:04 AM
Can I powder on first with autofeed cases, automatically feed bullet on second

You know in all the years, I have only seen the case feeder used for pistol cases. Although Pro 1000 can reload small rifle cases (223/7.62x39), most everyone I know reload rifle cases on a single stage. Maybe someone else who reloads 223 on Pro 1000 can comment.

Personally, I would recommend you set it up for the highest volume pistol calibers (9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, etc.).

Even though you are looking at a "permanent" setup, depending on the caliber (9mm/40S&W), it only takes like 1 minute to change out the turret and unscrew the Pro Auto Disk powder drop. 9mm and 40S&W use the same shell plate (#19) and some load combinations use the same powder charge (125 gr 9mm vs 180 gr 40 S&W use 4.3-4.6 gr of W231/HP38, etc.), so no need to change the Auto Disk hole even, just change the turret with dies already pre-set (extra turrets cost less than $9 at MidwayUSA).

I have another shell plate carrier set up for 45ACP ($40 at MidwayUSA). To change to 45ACP, I swap out the shell plate carrier in addition to the turret, but that takes like another minute. If you don't have another shell plate carrier, it will take few more minutes to change the shell plate (#2) on the shell plate carrier.

If could do my permanent setup in 45acp or 9mm too, but it would be slower to "prepare" the cases (resize/deprime/prime)
You can deprime/resize and even prime using the case feeder (definitely get the additional case collator $12) which will speed up the process significantly - but I prefer to deprime/resize on the single stage and hand prime all of my cases because it takes less effort on the SS and I can do these steps at my leisure watching TV. But, try both ways and see how it works out for you.

kestak
April 9, 2010, 09:10 AM
Greetings,

I do all my rifle cases on single stage or my turret except 223 that I do on my dillon. I will have to think about it to do my 9mm or 45acp on the 1000.....
I was really setup in my mind to do the 223.

Thank you

Koch
April 9, 2010, 09:44 AM
On my way to pick up my spankin new Pro 1000 in 40 s&w now! :)

bds
April 9, 2010, 09:50 AM
I was really setup in my mind to do the 223.

You still can. Actually, you can do both (pistol and rifle) since the turret/shell plate change out only takes a few minutes (you would need to change the powder in the hopper and the Auto Disk because pistol/rifle would use different powder/charge).

BTW, if you order the rifle Pro 1000 kit, it comes with steel die set (only pistol kit comes with 3 carbide die set).

kestak
April 9, 2010, 11:56 AM
Greetings,

Will the bullet feed kit work for 223? I did not see the info for 223 on the lee website. Also, which one of the two is the right one for 9mm 115 gr FMJ or 125 gr hard RN cast lead?

Thank you

bds
April 9, 2010, 12:25 PM
I have not seen the bullet feeder ever used for rifle bullet, only for pistol. I use my left hand for placing the bullet on top of the case neck while I actuate the ram lever with my right hand, so I have no use for the bullet feeder (those that use it also point out the time it takes to fill the tubes with bullets - I just take bullets out of the boxes they came in or use another container like small cat food feeder).

Since I have to push the 9mm 115gr bullets fairly near max to cycle properly in my stiff recoil springed Glocks, I find the 125gr bullets (whether plated or lead) more flexible with powders/charges to get good slide cycling. 125gr MBC small ball lead bullet profile also allows for more OAL options so it is now my favorite 9mm practice bullet.

cheygriz
April 9, 2010, 03:21 PM
You'll never regret getting a 650! :):)

Or if you can afford it, a 1050.

For a low cost machine to be set up for one caliber only, and never changerd, try the gun shows abnd garage sales and try to find a bargain on an old Dillon 450.

They work about as well as a 550 so long as you never need to so a caliber conversion.

pcwirepro
April 9, 2010, 03:43 PM
Kestak,

I am very mechanically inclined and I have a great deal of patience but I got to tell you ... both the Pro 1000 and the Loadmaster pushed me to the limit. I finally broke down and bought the L-N-L and wow what a difference. I can't imagine the Dillons being that much better. Thank goodness for Midway USA and thier liberal return policy.

bds
April 9, 2010, 05:25 PM
To be honest, I do not believe the Pro 1000 is for everyone. If someone is brand new to reloading, the added issues with Pro 1000 on top of the normal progressive press issues will frustrate the new reloader trying to learn to reload.

But the OP already mentioned a turret press, 2 single stage and a progressive press so the situation is a little different - we are dealing with someone who has already used reloading presses and familiar with the reloading process.

There have been many threads/discussions on which is the best progressive press. I do not claim that Pro 1000 is the best. In fact, I freely admit its short-comings. For many reloaders for many different reasons, Pro 1000 maybe the proper/adequate press of choce. For these circumstances I try to offer assistance to get them avoid as many problems they may face - not to mislead them to believe they are getting the best press in the world. I hope this sentiment is conveyed appropriately.

Knowing what I know now and if I have the need to buy a first progressive press, it will probably be either LNL or 1050, depending on finances, but as my wife asked, I am able to produce the level of quality bullets even for match shooting purposes that I simply do not need to look further. If someone requests to duplicate my setup, I help them do the same, with same product outcome as my process.

RustyFN
April 9, 2010, 08:02 PM
I don't have any experience with them but a friend of mine loads on a pro 1000 and loves it. He bought a load master recently and doesn't care for it.

Racinbob
April 9, 2010, 08:10 PM
Great press but no rifle case feeder. Just how tall would them tubes have to be?

kestak
April 12, 2010, 07:55 AM
Greetings,

ok, so here is what is the situation:

I am wiggling between a setup in 9mm, 45ACP or 223. I have all those dies already and setup for my Dillon, but I don't care to have another setup for the pro 1000.

It would not be time saving if I have to prepare my cases in 9mm or 45acp (resize, deprime, prime), but the primer system on the pro 1000 is problematic.

I prepare my cases in 223, but I won't be able to use the case feeder or bullet feeder. So, the time saved would not be so great. But I'll have a permanent setup in 223.

Is the primer system so problematic in the pro 1000?
Anyone thinkered a solution for the 223 case feeding? What about the bullet feeding?

Thank you

bds
April 12, 2010, 04:15 PM
Is the primer system so problematic in the pro 1000?

As I posted, about 95% uptime on the primer feed - I have done everything I could to lube the feed channel, made sure the click rod kept the feed channel full, etc. But would still occasionally get jammed primer to "slow me down" from the progressive production (it would take about 5-10 seconds to clear the jam, but I like "smooth as silk" reloading sessions).

It would not be time saving if I have to prepare my cases in 9mm or 45acp (resize, deprime, prime), but the primer system on the pro 1000 is problematic.
That's what I thought at first and got mad at Lee (rare occasion :D - I am a happy customer most of the times). But when I talked to other seasoned match shooters at the range, they were surprised I wasn't hand priming my cases. They all hand primed regardless of the progressive press they used for identifying loose primer pockets and for better "feel" for the primer seating.

Once I resized/deprimed and hand primed separately, I noticed that my "pace" at the progressive press increased because now it was so easy and smooth just to flare/powder charge and seat/taper crimp the bullets (usually takes 2-3 finger pressure to work the lever now). I love it! Many reloaders (who own other presses) that tried my setup could not believe how smooth the operation was and bought their own Pro 1000 to duplicate the setup. If you are looking at the total rounds per hour, the increase in production does make up for the time spent on depriming/resizing and hand priming.

I am wiggling between a setup in 9mm, 45ACP or 223.
9mm maybe my recommendation since you can really increase the production rate before you have to resupply the components (case, powder) and it uses the same shellplate as 40S&W (in case you add this caliber later). I shoot 9mm the most, 40S&W next and 45ACP the least, but I tend to slow down and take more care with 45ACP reloads.

kestak
April 13, 2010, 06:32 AM
Greetings,

Thank you VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY much for all your answers. :D

LEE BULLET FEED KIT 9MM- .365d .46-.60 LONG (LEE90894)
1 in cart -- $26.69 each

LEE CASE COLLATOR (LEE90667)
1 in cart -- $12.09 each

LEE DOUBLE DISK KIT (LEE90195)
1 in cart -- $12.09 each

LEE MULTI TUBE ADAPTER FOR BULLET FEED KIT (LEE90280)
1 in cart -- $19.69 each

LEE PRO 1000 RELOADER 9MM LUGER (LEE90640)
1 in cart -- $158.99 each

Subtotal: $229.55
Handling & Insurance: $4.50
Total: $234.05

Hangingrock
April 13, 2010, 08:12 AM
At one time in my professional life I specified components to be used in mechanical equipment assemblies for underground mining usage. When addressing specifications/warranty I always looked for the “weasel words” in regards to usage.:what:

There seems to be more caveats with Lee equipment then other manufactures mentioned in the body of this subject.:uhoh:

Like everything else a thousand that-a-boys is wiped out by one aw shucks.;)

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