First 9mm reloads - Safe to Shoot?


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jfremder
April 8, 2010, 09:09 AM
I've carefully finished my first batch of 9mm for my HP 995TS Carbine. The case width has a barely noticeable 4 thousandths indentation in the overall taper from the mouth to the rim. The indentation is just after the area where the bullet seats. The OAL is fine. I set the FCD to only crimp enough to hold the bullet firmly. As you can see from the pic and dimensions, there's an ever so slight indentation in the case just below where the bullet seated inside the case. None of my factory rounds have this 'feature'

They chamber fine. Is there any problem in using these rounds? What can I do differently to eliminate the hump?

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_4xKEC8XM7pg/S73SXVNlpvI/AAAAAAAABBs/eU_kWE6B4gI/s800/IMGP2902.JPG

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HOWARD J
April 8, 2010, 11:26 AM
I use a 115 gr. FMJ bullet in my target 9's
They all have approx. same dim. as yours using Lee dies.
I would not worry about it unless you have too much powder in case.
Have fun.

918v
April 8, 2010, 11:29 AM
The crimp imparted by the FCD is not what holds the bullet firmly in place. It is case tension. Can't speculate about safety not knowing the powder/bullet/primer specifics.

Damon555
April 8, 2010, 11:33 AM
As long as your load is within the limit I'd say they are fine.....It appears that the middle portion of the case is the size that the resizing die would leave it....The resizing operation will only go so far down on the case so the lower portion of the case will not be completely resized. As for the top portion it's simply the bullet pushing the resized case outward.

Make sure you wear proper eye and ear protection when shooting....better safe than sorry.

bootcamp
April 8, 2010, 11:35 AM
Yes, i agree with the others. The specs you posted look good so far if it's 115fmj. I actually seat to 1.135" if it's 115fmj.

Please list powder, bullet and primer specs.

moxie
April 8, 2010, 12:22 PM
That "bump" is actually a good thing, and is found in other autos as well, such as .45ACP. It's caused by the base of the bullet stretching the case slightly, causing a minor indentation just below that point. This indicates that the expander die was set properly. This tension, not the taper crimp, is what actually holds the bullet in place.

jfremder
April 8, 2010, 12:25 PM
Yes, i agree with the others. The specs you posted look good so far if it's 115fmj. I actually seat to 1.135" if it's 115fmj.

Please list powder, bullet and primer specs.
It's 6.0gr of Blue Dot over a 115gr Hornady FMJ RN. CCI 500 SP Primers. S&P once fired Brass. It's a specialty load for the carbine. Manuals state 8.0gr max for Blue Dot, several other use 6.0gr successfully for plinking

mineralman55
April 9, 2010, 09:00 AM
I am testing 9mm loads with the Rainier 115 RN TMJ now. Your reload with the narrow "waist" look like mine... it's normal and not an issue. As long as your case mouth is at 0.375" width you are alright. I question your LOA. I spoke with the good folks at Rainier and they said load their 115 gr RN to 1.135" LOA.

Many years ago I used Blue Dot for the 9mm, loading 7.1-7.5 grains of Blue Dot underneath a 124 LFP bullet. It gave a very hard recoil, the primers showed signs of pressure and was VERY LOUD. Didn't like it at all. I've had great results in the 9mm with Red Dot, Bullseye, W231 and especially Herco. YMMV.

Rule3
April 9, 2010, 09:22 AM
Your OAL is just a bit below max oal for 9MM so as long as it chambers you should be fine as to OAL But OAl should be more around 1.135 depending on the actual bullet.

Where did you find the "specialty" load data??

As to Blue Dot, it is not a "ideal" powder for 9mm. Yes, it can be used but as you mention the recommended min and max for it is 8gr. Blue Dot does not give good performance with reduced loads. It is pretty much a shotgun and magnum load powder. You will probably find at 6grs it is dirty and inconsistent. Speer manual lists 7.7 to 8.5 so based on that, you are below Min charge which can be just as dangerous as over charges. Blue Dot is a relatively slow burn powder and you will not get complete burn.

How many have you loaded? If only a few, I would break them down and up the charge to at least the min of 7.7-8.0
If you get a squib, especially in a carbine you are gonna have a problem!

If you can, try and find another powder for 9mm and leave the BD for Magnum Pistol Loads or use the recommended min charge.

Marlin 45 carbine
April 9, 2010, 09:54 AM
my .02 the round looks fine but powder-wise try some Power Pistol for those carbine loads. I load for my nephew's KelTec and my Marlin Camp 9mm and some stout loads with 124gr slugs and PP, shoot great. his KelTec states that the carbine actually prefers +P or 'performance' loads and it show it, accurate and hits hard.

bds
April 9, 2010, 10:11 AM
Yes, I would agree that the round looks to have sufficient "neck tension" and the narrowing in the middle of the case is normal (it's from resizing the taper 9mm case that's got a wide base then the neck).

I however load my 115gr 9mm Winchester FMJ bullets with 1.125" OAL. The final OAL would depend on the profile of the bullet used, but as long as the round feeds/chambers well in your barrel, the longer OAL will simply produce less pressure than the shorter OAL.

HOWARD J
April 9, 2010, 08:47 PM
115 gr FMJ
I use 7.7 to 8.0 gr. blue dot--very accurate load out of my Browning P-35.
My 1 1/2 # trigger does help..............................:D:D

deadeye dick
April 9, 2010, 09:34 PM
I just loaded my first 50 rounds of 9mm 115 gr. fmj over 4.7 gr green dot and found it verrrry dirty. otherwise ok never measured my cases so i am now curious. my reloads measures 1.165 OAL .375 at the crimp .380 mid and .385 just above the extracter groove. winchester case. New winchester ammo (factory) measures 1.160 OAL .375 at crimp .380 mid and .385 at groove. Lee dies First fire reloads Hornady bullets. OH the gun is a Taurus millemium 111

bds
April 9, 2010, 11:03 PM
I just loaded my first 50 rounds of 9mm 115 gr. fmj over 4.7 gr green dot and found it verrrry dirty. otherwise ok never measured my cases so i am now curious. my reloads measures 1.165 OAL

deadeye dick, your OAL maybe too long for 115gr FMJ and burning dirty. I load my 115gr FMJ bullets to 1.125" OAL (no shorter because the bullet profile diameter begins to decrease less than the case neck inside diameter). Load a dummy round (no powder/primer) to 1.125" OAL and check for reliable feeding/chambering in your pistol (it should work at that OAL for FMJ).

You can try out some test loads at 4.3gr and 4.5gr at 1.125" OAL. If your powder is still burning dirty, try another test load at 4.6gr and 1.125" OAL.

helg
April 9, 2010, 11:48 PM
1. Round "waist" is not an issue at all. Later on, once you get comfortable with reloading, you may try not to screw the 9mm sizing die to shell plate contact. When doing this be careful to keep a few mils case neck tension (i.e. inner diameter of the sized brass should be a few thousands less than bullet diameter). Otherwise you may get bullet seatback in a mag with overpressure during firing.

2. Blue Dot is slow powder for 9mm. According to Quickload, 6 grains under 115 bullet on max OAL burn only by 52% in 4" barrel, and by 69% in 20" one. The load, even in carbine, and may be dirty. 6 grains in max OAL give only 34% of the max pressure for the caliber, and 8 grains - 68%. Not sure that the light 115gr bullet is loaded to the max OAL (1.169"). Shorter round develops way higher pressure: 1.090" OAL and 8 grains give 100% pressure.

ArchAngelCD
April 10, 2010, 03:15 AM
I'm not trying to pile on but when I first looked at the picture of the round you posted I thought the bullet was sitting too high too. It doesn't look like the case neck is at the widest part of the bullet. I would also suggest you seat that bullet a little deeper like said above, in the 1.125" range.

As for powders and charge weights, what was said about your light load of Blue Dot sounds like the right advice, that load may be too light and the powder too slow. If you're considering a different powder Power Pistol was mentioned and will do a good job as will HS-6 or Universal. If you're not a Hodgdon powder fan and want to stick with an Alliant powder Power Pistol is a better choice than Blue Dot like said above. If you want to use a Accurate powder give AA#5 a try.

nitetrane98
April 10, 2010, 10:23 AM
As far as "safe" goes, the fact that you have a little "Coke bottling" going on doesn't come into play at all. I think the only thing that's going to put you into the danger zone is too much powder or too deep bullet seating.

Try Power Pistol. You'll like it.

G36Rick
April 10, 2010, 11:33 AM
I agree with moxie. that "bulge" is quit normal from the bullet being seated in the case.Take a look at a "factory" loaded round and you will see the same.

hydraulicman
April 10, 2010, 11:45 AM
use the start charge in your loading manual.

jfremder
April 11, 2010, 07:06 AM
Well I shot up the 100 rounds I loaded w/ 115gr FMJ over 6.0gr Blue Dot @ 1.157 OAL

Everthing went fine, same size group as factory ammo. Carbine barrel is still spotless.

Now I have 500 125gr LRN I want to load. Any recommendation on OAL for these? My Lee manual states 1.15"

Damon555
April 11, 2010, 11:46 AM
Go by the book. Just make sure they fit in the magazine. I'd be willing to bet that 1.15" will be just fine.....Of course I have never loaded for a HP Carbine.

When you are starting out reloading you need to make sure you get the COL's correct. As you progress and your reloading skills get better COL recommendations are more of a guideline. Each weapon is different and by reloading you can make custom ammunition by adjusting bullet seating depth to improve accuracy.

Just pay very close attention to the reloading steps and go by the book. You will have no problems if you don't try to "cowboy" your loads. Reloading is one of my most rewarding hobbies.....along with photography.

My bother and I just busted out 948 45 acp rounds.....we went from this pile.....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/edlafond/DSC_5011.jpg

to this pile....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/edlafond/DSC_5082.jpg

before we ran out of large pistol primers....which are very hard to come by these days in my neck of the woods.

Thanks for posting your progress. I enjoy seeing a progression in others skills.

bds
April 11, 2010, 11:52 AM
Damon555, nice job - bet you can't wait to shoot them. :D

BTW, those bullets look like Rainier Ballistics (concave base for better obturation and the rectangle "double box" package looks familiar) ... are they?

Damon555
April 11, 2010, 12:04 PM
Damon555, nice job - bet you can't wait to shoot them. :D

BTW, those bullets look like Rainier Ballistics (concave base for better obturation and the rectangle "double box" package looks familiar) ... are they?
Good call bds. They are the 230 grain leadsafe Rainiers from midwayusa. Actually that is the shipping box the original box of bullets came in. USPS was pretty rough on the package and the box the bullets were in fell apart. They shoot just fine.....here is a 50 yard rested group shot with my Kimber Eclipse Custom II.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/edlafond/DSC_5093.jpg

Ok, so as to not hijack jfremder's thread I need to ask him.....Where are you getting your reloading components? Midwayusa and Midsouth Shooters supply are very good sources for all your reloading needs. Just a little word or mouth advertising for what I consider to be 2 of the best shooting supply warehouses out there.

ssyoumans
April 12, 2010, 03:20 PM
Regarding the 125gr LRN, I've been using GA Arms bullets on top of:
4.9, 5.2, and 5.5gr Unique @ 1.150" (max 6.0gr)
4.0, 4.3, and 4.6gr Bullseye @ 1.150" (max 4.9gr)
All loads functioned in my Kel-tec PF-9. 5.2 gr Unique and 4.3 gr Bullseye were my preferred load. Some leading occurs, fair amount of smoke from the lube.

Max Load data per 1992 Hercules load manual. This data seems to run somewhat hotter than the Speer, Hornady, and Lyman manuals, but has a longer OAL and a different profile, so you got to build your loads in steps. Some of the manuals seem to limit lead loads to 1,000 fps to minimize chance of excessive leading. At least Hercules post the psi to help you know all the details. I haven't had a chance to run them across the crony yet, but hope to sometime next month.

Disclaimer: you must build up your own loads while watching for signs of too much pressure. I take no responsibility for load data listed.

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