.38 Special+P vs. .357 Magnum


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jkulysses
April 8, 2010, 03:38 PM
Is the .38+P sufficient in a 2" revolver for self defense concealed carry or should I just put the .357 Mags in there? I tried searching but wasn't having much luck. I'm picking up my new revolver tomorrow and not sure which rounds to pick up for when I actually carry it. I got a few boxes of regular .38 Special just so I can get used to the gun but haven't bought any actual self defense rounds yet.

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Gryffydd
April 8, 2010, 03:42 PM
If the gun takes both, buy and try both. If you the 357 rounds work for you--recoil isn't too bad and you can still make followup shots quickly, might as well carry them. You may find the experience is less than pleasant though. Not to mention issues with too much muzzle flash and eardrum busting loudness. There are a lot of good reasons to carry .38s for defense even if the revolver can shoot 357s. But to answer your first question, yes, .38+P is definitely sufficient.

243winxb
April 8, 2010, 03:54 PM
For defense, bullet design is very important. Federal Hydra-Shok JHP work well. .38+P is sufficient in a 2" revolver for self defense concealed carry. Recovery time from recoil is important. Depending on the weight of your firearm, you might not evey like the +P. My 10 oz. gun is a handfull.

jkulysses
April 8, 2010, 04:04 PM
It's fairly heavy so shouldn't be as bad. It's like 26 oz which is right up there with the Ruger sp101 lol.

hydraulicman
April 8, 2010, 06:00 PM
my ruger sp101 roars with .357 mags

I load 38s for self defense because i can shoot them better with my weak hand if need be

351 WINCHESTER
April 8, 2010, 09:02 PM
Years ago I tried to master a 2 1/2" model 66 with remington 125 full house loads. The gun crapped out on me around 350 rounds and no I never mastered it. Way too much recoil and muzzle blast.

Now, if someone was on top of me betting the hell out of me a .357 would be a very good thing to have.

Steve C
April 8, 2010, 09:38 PM
A snub nose revolver is a compromise where you give up power for portability. There is significant velocity loss of about 150 to 200 fps from a 4" barrel when you drop to a 2" barrel. You can buy some pretty hot .38 spl loads from Buffalo bore that will approach what you would probably get from a mid range .357 mag and and make up most if not all the 2" difference. They definitely have more pop to them than the .38 +P offerings from the major manufacturers.

The more powerful and theoretically more effective ammo is going to produce more recoil, flash and muzzle blast that is amplified in a short barrel pistol. As Gryffydd posted, its best to try some different rounds out to see if you can tolerate this and want to shoot them.

In selecting .357 magnum ammo the 125gr Remington Golden Sabers may be a good option as they are loaded to a mid level velocity of around 1,220 fps from a 4" barrel while the typical full power 125gr mag is loaded to 1,450 fps.

Ammo is probably over thought for civilian self defense, its psychologically about what gives confidence to the person carrying it. Ammo selection is much more important to those in Law enforcement who run towards danger. Even a mild wad cutter load or the often maligned 158gr LRN will work for self defense under most circumstances. Now that is the logical rational mind talking, because I don't pay much attention to it and still want the most effective ammo I can carry.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
June 23, 2010, 04:30 PM
I find that it is more important to have an accurate and controllable load, i.e., one that you can 'rapid-fire' the cylinder-full and still be COM within 21 feet, than it is to have a 'Bazooka' that is deafening, has about a 12" group at 21 feet and takes a second or two to get situated back on target with the thing due to all the recoil, muzzle flash, etc.

Besides, the calmer loads will make your gun last longer -- especially over severely, extremely POWERFUL loads that seem impressive! A steady diet of those and you can loosen up a gun in no time!:o

Friendly, Don't Fire!
June 23, 2010, 04:31 PM
bump - double post - please delete

ArchAngelCD
June 23, 2010, 10:26 PM
If the gun takes both, buy and try both. If you the 357 rounds work for you--recoil isn't too bad and you can still make followup shots quickly, might as well carry them. You may find the experience is less than pleasant though. Not to mention issues with too much muzzle flash and eardrum busting loudness. There are a lot of good reasons to carry .38s for defense even if the revolver can shoot 357s. But to answer your first question, yes, .38+P is definitely sufficient.
Well stated post and I agree as long as the .38 Special +P ammo you are using will perform well from a short barrel. (like the FBI Load, 135gr Speer short barrel ammo and a few others)

Old Shooter
June 23, 2010, 10:53 PM
Yes, 38 Special +P will work fine for your 2" revolver for self defense loads.

.357 will work just as well with a lot more flash, bang and boom without much if any improvement in performance at self defense ranges.

Try both. My choice is the .38 Special 158 gr SJHP but others prefer the .357. with 125 gr JHP.

I can rapid fire the 38's with good recovery and on target accuracy, I can't do that with the hot 357's.

Your results may be different.

joneb
June 23, 2010, 10:57 PM
I prefer to use .357 mag cartridges in .357mag chambered firearms.
This might be worth a look; http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23917

TonyT
June 24, 2010, 07:52 AM
I stick with 38 Special loads in my snub nosed revolvers. The report of 357 Magnums in those short barreled guns is more than I can tolerate and I am unable to adequately control those light revolvers with 357 Mag ammo.

RebelRabbi
June 24, 2010, 03:02 PM
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108
OR
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_57
OR
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx
OR
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defense-DPX/357-Mag-125gr-Self-Defense-DPX/DPX357125-20/200/Product
OR
http://hipowers-handguns.blogspot.com/2008/09/can-less-be-more-look-at-357-mid-range.html

angel1216
June 24, 2010, 03:36 PM
both are proven to be effective! you can't go wrong with the gold dot short barrel. 38+P or 357.

T.A.Sharps
June 24, 2010, 10:36 PM
Everything stated above is accurate...

...but as this is a CCW question, there could be a Legal hassle using a .38spl in a .357, or using a magnum cartridge at all.

Generally it is a good idea to use the round the gun was made for. And to stay away from magnum rounds. For no good reason, just that it would be something to give a prosecutor an inch of meat to bite on too.

Hondo 60
June 24, 2010, 11:17 PM
T.A.Sharps:

Huh? Sorry but I don't follow your answer. If the gun in question is a 357 magnum, how can you... use the round the gun was made for. And to stay away from magnum rounds


Maybe I'm just thick. but that doesn't make sense to me. (Not trying to flame, just trying to understand)

AKElroy
June 24, 2010, 11:20 PM
but as this is a CCW question, there could be a Legal hassle using a .38spl in a .357, or using a magnum cartridge at all.

Generally it is a good idea to use the round the gun was made for. And to stay away from magnum rounds. For no good reason, just that it would be something to give a prosecutor an inch of meat to bite on too.

Do you have any evidence to sight for this claim? I am aware of exactly ZERO such prosecutions, and studying this topic is pretty much my only hobby. Using .38 spl loads in lighter .357 chambered guns is an extremely common and prudent practice. How it could paint one as bloodthirsty escapes me.

Hey_Allen
June 25, 2010, 03:44 AM
.38 special is also listed as an approved cartridge by the manufacturers of the said .357 caliber guns, to the best of my knowledge.

Personal preference, I carry .38 special in my SP-101, rather than .357 mag, for the same reason as many above.
With .38 special, I can control it and keep it on target.
When I have the .357 mag rounds going downrange, it's definitely a good bit more difficult to keep on target, and I'd hate to hear it without plugs in!

Personal ammo preference, Hornady Critical Defense, and Winchester PDX1. Whatever floats your boat, though.

OYE
June 25, 2010, 04:26 AM
357 Magnum Velocity Variation in Different Guns-different barrel lengths.
Speer Manual # 12 has an interesting article on Page 435 by that title. They tested 27 different .357 handguns with the same load in 3 different bullet weights. Worth a read.
Example: 158 grain spread in the 6 in. barrel models was 1002 to 1284 fps
Example: 158 grain spread in the 2.5 in. models was 989 to 1034 fps ( Whoa !!!!!!)


Wouldn't want to get hit with a +P or a 357. Doesn't seem consistent with being alive.

T.A.Sharps
June 25, 2010, 11:54 PM
I know there is nothing wrong with shooting .38's in a .357mag. That is one of the great things about getting something chambered in .357mag.

Yurko
That was meant to be two considerations for a concealed carry weapon, not for a .357 load, perhaps I didn't word it clearly.

And the other part was from my concealed carry class, and the cases they cited I didn't bother to write down. But some of the points were...

Loading a 38 in a pistol marked .357 brings into question your intent. For the same reason you "can't" load rock salt in a 12ga.

And the hippy liberal idea that if you use a round marked magnum, well that just means you REALLY want to kill someone.

THESE ARE NOT MY IDEAS, these are maggot infested hippy liberal ideas that can be used to put blame and doubt on you in a court, and I wouldn't trust a prosecutor not to.

Personally, I don't think there would be anything better than to carry a .357mag with whatever load you like the best. I know both of the ideas are retarded, and don't make any sense, but they were brought up in my class and I would rather error on the side of caution, and not find out in court how liberal the people in my county really are.

jkulysses
To your question, I think, legally, using a .357 in it would be best for carrying that revolver.

amd6547
June 26, 2010, 12:34 AM
Speaking as a well armed old hippy, I find those concerns to be pathetic.

Cody Banks
June 30, 2010, 07:55 PM
I had the unpleasant experience to pop off a .357 at the skeet field one day, without my muffs on. It actually tore into my soul and ripped out my spine. I have been shooting since I was 8 years old, and at 56, I can honestly say that one shot was the loudest piercing sound I have ever heard in my life. Always wear ear protection, and with magnums, use plugs and muffs too.

zxcvbob
June 30, 2010, 08:01 PM
Loading a 38 in a pistol marked .357 brings into question your intent.That one is just ridiculous.

Old Ranger
June 30, 2010, 09:34 PM
There is .38 + P factory ammo out there specifically designed for snubbies. My carry is a snubbie; so I've tried some of it in wet pack and chronographed it. Some stuff, like the hydra shocks - - - don't open up. Gold dots sort of do, and penetrate well - - - but the best all around factory load I've found; at least for my snubbie; is the Remington Ultimate Home Defense load. It doesn't penetrate wet pack like the Gold Dot, but it mushrooms completely and clocks about 930 out of my little dragon.

I do roll my own, and can get about the same velocity - - - but I only carry factory ammo. I think too, that the .38 with that load is better than .357 for a variety of reasons.

ArchAngelCD
June 30, 2010, 11:56 PM
Loading a 38 in a pistol marked .357 brings into question your intent. For the same reason you "can't" load rock salt in a 12ga.
Ummm, I think you are a little confused here. A .357 Magnum round is more powerful than a .38 Special or .38 Special +P by a good margin in most cases. You have it backwards. Just because 38 is a bigger number than 35 means nothing this time.

bullseye308
July 1, 2010, 12:08 AM
Buy a box of every 38 & 357 round you can find. Shoot some of each and see which one you can control the best and shoot the most accurately. That will determine everything. If you can't control it & hit anything with it, trade it in for a club. Realistically getting hit with any 38 or 357 placed well should do the trick.

Guy de Loimbard
July 1, 2010, 02:20 PM
By enough of both to find out if they are accurate and decide from there. My Security Six will shoot low powered .38 ammo and full house .357 just fine, but it does not group worth a darn with .38 +p type loads. If you get good accuracy from both and don't mind the extra flash, blast, and recoil, ( I don't :D ) .357 magnum is for you!

jkulysses
July 1, 2010, 02:50 PM
I know there is nothing wrong with shooting .38's in a .357mag. That is one of the great things about getting something chambered in .357mag.

Yurko
That was meant to be two considerations for a concealed carry weapon, not for a .357 load, perhaps I didn't word it clearly.

And the other part was from my concealed carry class, and the cases they cited I didn't bother to write down. But some of the points were...

Loading a 38 in a pistol marked .357 brings into question your intent. For the same reason you "can't" load rock salt in a 12ga.

And the hippy liberal idea that if you use a round marked magnum, well that just means you REALLY want to kill someone.

THESE ARE NOT MY IDEAS, these are maggot infested hippy liberal ideas that can be used to put blame and doubt on you in a court, and I wouldn't trust a prosecutor not to.

Personally, I don't think there would be anything better than to carry a .357mag with whatever load you like the best. I know both of the ideas are retarded, and don't make any sense, but they were brought up in my class and I would rather error on the side of caution, and not find out in court how liberal the people in my county really are.

jkulysses
To your question, I think, legally, using a .357 in it would be best for carrying that revolver.
Wow I didn't know this thread was still alive. I do understand what your trying to say but I just don't see how that would apply in this case. If anything I would think it would help you in court if a perp was shot with a .38 special or +p because it would show that I could've loaded up magnums but instead went with the "less lethal" specials if I dare to say that. I know I know a +p in a 2" revolver can be every bit as deadly as a .357mag but bare with me here :). I do know that in my conceal carry class the instructor highly discouraged reloading your own ammo or anybody else's home loads. He said at least when your carrying factory loads are the safe bet.

I actually sold my .357 mag revolver last week but this is still good info to know because I will buy another one sometime soon just a different brand. Thanks for all the replies everybody and pretty much confirmed what I was thinking about using the .38+p's.

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