Some days it's better to stay at home


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armoredman
April 9, 2010, 01:55 PM
I was ready to go try out my new loads for the CZ 527, and hotfooted it down to the range as soon as I could. I set up at 100 yards, and was planning on walking it back to 200 as soon as I checked zero...good thing I did.


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/whatthe.jpg

What the...this was zeroed last time I checked! Instead of moving it back, I spent the next 40 minutes trying to get this scope to hold to a zero...well, here's the last 4 groups fired.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/scopewander.jpg

Case in point, the one on the lower right - the taped group was shot first, then the scope adjusted up...and it went down and to the right.
I have to confess, this is my very first scope, I mounted it myself, (sitting in my lap), and it's a cheapie. The group sizes show the rifle is doing it's part, that first one being 3/4 inch, the others range from 1 and 3/4 to 1 and 1/4, and one baaad one taped up on the upper right...oops.
Is it the scope or is it me?

Edit to add, I got it to work the first time, so I know which way to turn the knobs.:)

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Afy
April 9, 2010, 01:57 PM
How windy was it?

armoredman
April 9, 2010, 02:34 PM
Mild wind, little breezy.

briansmithwins
April 9, 2010, 02:45 PM
Loose scope or mount?

Loose action in the stock?

Loose nut behind the stock?

BSW

lexjj
April 9, 2010, 02:46 PM
did you loctite the scope base? I made the mistake of not doing that once, and I got similar results.

Bovice
April 9, 2010, 02:50 PM
what kind of a scope is it?

R.W.Dale
April 9, 2010, 02:56 PM
did you loctite the scope base? I made the mistake of not doing that once, and I got similar results.
there is no scope base on a cz527, but I agree that the random shot dispersion and dramatic POI shifts look like a tale tell sighting system problem

if you have a really steady rest one super easy way to zero a scope is to shoot a group (if on paper) then point the crosshairs at the bullseye. the being very steady to not move the rifle adjust the scope till the crosshairs are centered on your group.

jonboynumba1
April 9, 2010, 02:56 PM
Is the scope a Bushnell? ;) If your rings are tight and you haven't dropped it or had a major bedding change (swollen wood in forend area?) then it's your glass. Do you have CZ rings or Millet rings? Because the Millet rings REALLY suck for those and the CZ while heavy are REALLY stable!

armoredman
April 9, 2010, 03:00 PM
CZ rings, and the scope is a Simmons 8 point 3-9x40...all I could afford at the time, first scope.
Loose nut behind the stock?
I like that, and it so often true! :)

BTW, I don't have a rest, I shoot sitting with elbows braced on a concrete wraparound bench. No sling yet, either.

jonboynumba1
April 9, 2010, 03:25 PM
the scope is a Simmons 8 point 3-9x40

you have the answer there bud....sorry the newer simons 8 points are VERY poorly made now...the cheapest thing I can reccomend that tends to work reasonably well and hold zero are the BSA deer-hunter and up scopes for sub $100 or for about $150-220 you could get a Nikon...and never really "need" to upgrade.

jogar80
April 9, 2010, 03:36 PM
I had that same scope on a 30.06 and had the same results as you.

armoredman
April 9, 2010, 03:51 PM
I was looking at the Redfield 2-7x33 Revolution...heard good things about that one.

jonboynumba1
April 9, 2010, 03:56 PM
an often overlooked but very usable size and range...sounds like a nice match

Maverick223
April 9, 2010, 04:08 PM
Some days it's better to stay at home
That's what this guy said:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=119065&d=1270430807
...and his accuracy (or repeatability) was worse than your's. :D

375shooter
April 9, 2010, 07:12 PM
CZ rings, and the scope is a Simmons 8 point 3-9x40...all I could afford at the time, first scope.

I like that, and it so often true! :)

BTW, I don't have a rest, I shoot sitting with elbows braced on a concrete wraparound bench. No sling yet, either.
How well are you calling your shots? For each shot you fire, if you squeeze the trigger and concentrate on holding the reticle on the bulls eye, and don't flinch, you'll have an image in your mind of exactly where the reticle was on the target just before the recoil moved it.


If you're doing well in this area, your problem will have to be the scope. I've had the same symptoms as you describe while using cheat scopes, so no longer waste my time with them. There are others, but I usually recommend Leupold. They're lightweight, compact and good looking and have an excellent reputation and warranty.

baldeagle93
April 9, 2010, 08:07 PM
Sometimes when I leave the range I feel like my rifle did this to me...:banghead:

armoredman
April 9, 2010, 08:55 PM
There are no words to describe how intensely painful that photo is to look at....


Well, I guess I can get my money back from the scope, and save it to apply to a Redfield, (owned by Leupold now, I am told), when I can get it. Unfortunately, this is also the rifle that the rear sight came unstaked, and I lack tools/know how to restake it properly, so it will be a safe queen for quite some time. Bummer, great shoointg little carbine.


Maverick, it actually took me a moment to realize that LMG is missing it's barrel...

KevinR
April 9, 2010, 09:13 PM
Man I want to vote that fella in the red for union president. :)

Maverick223
April 9, 2010, 09:29 PM
Maverick, it actually took me a moment to realize that LMG is missing it's barrel...You must have missed this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=515689); from which it was stolen.

:)

benEzra
April 9, 2010, 09:45 PM
CZ rings, and the scope is a Simmons 8 point 3-9x40...all I could afford at the time, first scope.
One thing to keep in mind with regard to inexpensive magnified scopes is that for the same amount of money, a fixed-power scope is more likely to hold zero than a variable. The reason is that the variable has lots of additional moving parts that cost money to make and assemble, so at the same price point the variable is going to have to use cheaper components. There is also more to wiggle inside a variable.

Maverick223
April 9, 2010, 09:51 PM
One thing to keep in mind with regard to inexpensive magnified scopes is that for the same amount of money, a fixed-power scope is more likely to hold zero than a variable.Absolutely; want a cheap scope that will last?...Can't get much cheaper than a Bushnell Sportview 4x, and they seem to hold zero quite well (though optical quality leaves a bit to be desired, but not bad for the money).

:)

Ky Larry
April 9, 2010, 10:21 PM
This is thread drift but it's gun/scope related. One of the bosses at work (more money than brains) bought a Browning BAR Safari Grade 7mm mag and put a Leopold Vari-X III 3X9 scope on it . Beautiful rig. Took it to the range and put 1 1/2 boxes of Win ammo thru it and couldn't keep it on the paper. He sold the whole rig to my buddy for $500.00. My buddy and I tried it with the same results. Buddy was ready to give up on it too but I suggested going over it with a screwdriver.The scope was so loose you could almost rotate the scope in the rings. After we tightend everything, the rifle shot .75" groups with cheap Rem Corelokts.

armoredman
April 9, 2010, 10:31 PM
Yikes! Mine is tight, I know that. I am curious, anyone used the new Redfield? I can't afford Leupold or otherwise. Also, a buddy said he got a good Nikon scope for 4130 at Wally World, anyone know anything about those? Junk or decent?

Maverick223
April 9, 2010, 11:10 PM
I'd try a Sightron S-I, Vortex Crossfire, Nikon ProStaff, or if you can swing it a Sightron S-II or Bushnell 3200.

:)

Bovice
April 10, 2010, 12:39 AM
when I sight in a scope, I use a laser boresighter to get the windage close (obviously elevation needs to be adjusted at long range) and then I go to the range and shoot it at 25 yards. Elevation is then adjusted, and windage is tweaked 1 or 2 clicks if necessary. Then I push it out to 100 yards, and repeat. Then I shoot a few rounds to verify, and it is now zeroed at 100 yards. If you want a longer distance zero, just adjust it for the bullet drop or shoot that far and see where it lands. Luckily 223 is a fairly straight shooting round and doesn't have much drop within 200 yards.

While I think that actually shooting the rifle at the desired zero distance is the best way to get awesome accuracy, making adjustments for bullet drop using the scope is definitely good enough to hit what you're intending, or very close to it.

If that method doesn't work, there's something wrong with the scope.

lexjj
April 10, 2010, 01:07 AM
Yikes! Mine is tight, I know that. I am curious, anyone used the new Redfield? I can't afford Leupold or otherwise. Also, a buddy said he got a good Nikon scope for 4130 at Wally World, anyone know anything about those? Junk or decent?
I have an old Redfield that I like, but I don't have any experience with the new ones. However, Leupold is now the owner of Redfield.

armoredman
April 10, 2010, 08:22 PM
Bovice, that's about the procedure I used, but I boresighted at home, then started at 25 yards and moved out. I ended up getting 2 3/4-3" groups at 200 yards with it. But when I went back, it wouldn't hold a zero to save my life. It goes back to WalMart...yes, I got it from WalMart, (hangs head in shame), BUT, a buddy is sending me a Center Point illuminated reticle -9 he's been using and now has no rifle for. We'll see how that goes, but that little Redfield still has my attention.
Three things this rifle needs, adjustable rear iron sight, small rugged scope, and a kevlar/poly stock that has a compartment for two spare magazines.

Evil Monkey
April 10, 2010, 08:58 PM
I honestly laughed out loud when I saw the first grouping. :D

armoredman
April 11, 2010, 12:10 AM
Nice group, just no where near the bull!

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