AK question...


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Hatterasguy
April 9, 2010, 02:58 PM
I want an AK47, but I live in CT and am still under the assualt rifle ban so my choices are somewhat limited.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/Genie/Default.aspx?item=SGL21-61&mfg=Arsenal+Inc&mdl=All&cat=All&type=Rifle&cal=All&fin=Blue&sit=Adjustable


So I have heard good things about Arsenal, and it seems that the SGL21-61 may be CT legal. If not any idea on which model would be?

So does Arsenal make good AK's? I was under the impression they take Saiga sporting rifles and convert them back to military style AK's. I'd put some proper wood furniture on that thing, stick a banana mag in it and call it good.:D

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nalioth
April 9, 2010, 04:08 PM
I was under the impression you couldn't have any AK type rifle in 7.62x39 up there.


So does Arsenal make good AK's? If you believe what they trumpet, all other AKs are pale whimpering wisps that wish they were real AKs.

In reality, an AK is an AK is an AK. The design was intended for cheap production╣, and paying more then $400 for a new one is highway robbery, imho.

[1] Buying an arsenal is like buying a Mini Cooper "Rolls Royce Edition" - underneath all the fancy, it's still a Mini Cooper.

privateidaho
April 9, 2010, 04:15 PM
I believe Nalioth's response is correct.
See this CT gov website - http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/glossary/assaultweapon.htm

benEzra
April 9, 2010, 04:29 PM
[1] Buying an arsenal is like buying a Mini Cooper "Rolls Royce Edition" - underneath all the fancy, it's still a Mini Cooper.
...which underneath the British style is really a BMW. :neener:

E-Rock
April 9, 2010, 07:29 PM
Follow privateidaho's link. "Ak-47 'type'" rifles are illegal in CT. The test used by the courts (As established in State v. Kaplan) is the same used by the CT state police: If it looks like an AK-47, functions like an AK-47, and has parts that are interchangeable with an AK-47, then it is an AK-47 type. However, AK pattern rifles chambered for rounds other than 7.62x39 (parts are not interchangeable if a different caliber) are fine so long as the muzzle brake is welded on and the bayonet lugs are ground off per the qualities and characteristics clause of the statute. The Kaplan case explicitly states that if the CT legislature intended the AK-74 to be banned, it would have stated so specifically. Because CT only listed the AK-47 explicitly, that is the rifle that is banned. Its funky, but that is what the state courts at the Appellate level have decided.

You'll have to find a neutered AK-74 or one in .223 to get it into CT. Even Saigas in 7.62 fall under the AK-47 type umbrella.

benEzra
April 9, 2010, 08:47 PM
For a first AK, I'd suggest a 5.45x39 (AK-74 style) or .223 anyway, unless you want to hunt with it. They are more accurate and kick less. Or, if you can't find 5.45x39mm ammunition in your area and don't want to mail-order it, .223 is a great caliber if a little more expensive to shoot.

Zack
April 9, 2010, 09:52 PM
When does the ban expire?

Hatterasguy
April 9, 2010, 10:20 PM
Well I did some research and you guys are right, but an AK74 would be fine. I want something cheaper to shoot than 5.56. 5.45 fits the bill perfectly.

Looks like an SGL31 would be CT legal.


I want a real Russian AK, $700 to me at least is cheap for a rifle. Either that or spend $2,400 on a tricked out DSA Fal.:D

Zack
April 9, 2010, 10:28 PM
5.45x39 you can buy bulk ammo for like $150 per 1080 :)

philpost
April 9, 2010, 10:39 PM
I was under the impression you couldn't have any AK type rifle in 7.62x39 up there.


If you believe what they trumpet, all other AKs are pale whimpering wisps that wish they were real AKs.

In reality, an AK is an AK is an AK. The design was intended for cheap production╣, and paying more then $400 for a new one is highway robbery, imho.

[1] Buying an arsenal is like buying a Mini Cooper "Rolls Royce Edition" - underneath all the fancy, it's still a Mini Cooper.
A better example might be a burger: you could get one in a steakhouse, or you could get one at McDonalds. They're both burgers, designed to be cheaply made, right? Only anyone who tells you they taste the same has no taste. Quality ingredients matter, as does careful assembly. I have an Arsenal, and people who have a lot more experience with AK's than I do have remarked on the quality. But sometimes a Big Mac hits the spot too. As long as it works, it's all good.

-v-
April 9, 2010, 10:51 PM
The SGL series are not rebuilt Saigas per-say. While they have "Saiga" stamped on the side, they do not have the cut-out for the bolt-hold open, or the moved trigger guard, or the two rear rivet holes that are covered up. In all respects it appears that the SGL series are built from the ground-up in the proper configuration with no modification, or sportarized features involved.

If you are looking for as authentic as possible AK, you can't go wrong with the SGLs, since they, and military grade AK's both come off the same assembly line and both come from the Izhevsk arsenal, complete with proper arsenal stamps! Just one doesn't have the third hole in the receiver!

Also they (Saiga series) are actually built on the AK-74 pattern modified back to 7.62x39. The 90 angle of the gas tube to piston is one of the minor features. Splitting hairs, I know, but wanted to throw it out.

While the analogy of "A burger is a burger", there's also a bit of difference between a hamburger from McDonald's and a burger from 5 Guys or some other "premium" or "mom-n-pop" burger joints that make burgers from McDonald's look like rejected dog food.

edit: philpost, darn you for posting the same analogy that I was going to use 10 seconds faster than me!!!! Analogy still stands, consider it!

Same with the Saiga: while it and a WASR are both AK's, the Saiga is brand new built to Russian Military specs with new barrels and hardware AK, whereas a WASR is built from used and surplussed, even potentially QC-Failed parts that have a wide range of quality.

You can expect 2-3 MOA or better from a Saiga (My SGL21 does 2" with Brown Bear, and prolly better if I hand-loaded), a WASR, who knows...

nalioth
April 9, 2010, 11:11 PM
Also they (Saiga series) are actually built on the AK-74 pattern modified back to 7.62x39. The 90 angle of the gas tube to piston is one of the minor features. Splitting hairs, I know, but wanted to throw it out. Actually, the SGL line is pretty much 2-hole AK-103s (7.62x39) and AK-74Ms (5.45x39)

Balog
April 9, 2010, 11:37 PM
I'd get a 5.45x39 Saiga and convert it myself. Well, actually I'd move, but I hear people who live in states with bad gun laws get offended when told that.

-v-
April 9, 2010, 11:39 PM
Actually, the SGL line is pretty much 2-hole AK-103s (7.62x39) and AK-74Ms (5.45x39)
My mistake on the AK-74 vs '74M, you are right. Since we're on the subject of splitting hairs, I recall that the AK-103 is a derivation from the '74M in itself (7.62x39 vs 5.45x39.5, and a couple of minor internal changes from the '74M to the 100-series). Thus, a SGL-21 is more closely related to the AK-74M than it is to an AKM or an AK-47, either way.

Hatterasguy
April 10, 2010, 09:37 AM
Interesting, v thats about what I thought. I want as close to an AK as possible, not a sporting rifle.

I want a brand new one, I havn't bought a new rifle in awhile. Milsurp is nice, but sometimes its nice to put the first mag through it.

I'll be heading to the gunstore tomarrow to see if I can get a good price on one.

E-Rock
April 10, 2010, 06:48 PM
If you want as close to a "real" AK as you can get and are not concerned about cost, have you looked into NFA AKs? I've seen dealer sample AKs here in CT and have heard of pre-'86 AKs floating around. All pre-'86 AKs would have been registered in the state by the time the CT AWB rolled around in 1993 and are legal to own in CT. Just a thought.

Sam1911
April 10, 2010, 08:06 PM
E-Rock, don't forget that all "Title II" AKs would be required to be modified to only fire full-auto. "Select Fire" rifles (that are operable in both semi- and full-auto mode) are expressly illegal in CT.

Strange place...

PH/CIB
April 10, 2010, 09:30 PM
Vepr, Arsenal, Saiga, they are all good rifles.

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