Bulges on bottom of the cartidge


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chagasrod
April 10, 2010, 02:16 AM
I'm reloading some 200g LSWC in 45 Auto and sometimes i'm getting bulges on the bottom of the wall.
When they bulge they won't fit into the gauge. When i try to get rid of the bulge by running them through the seater/crimper die, the bulge won't go away.

Why do i have these bulges in some and not all the rounds?

Could be a "weak" piece of brass?



Thanks again!!!

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bds
April 10, 2010, 02:31 AM
More information please:

- What model of pistol?
- Is the pistol stock or modified?
- What powder/charge?
- What OAL?
- Could you possibly post pictures of the bulge?

chagasrod
April 10, 2010, 02:40 AM
-Stock Colt Cold Cup 5"
-7.0 Grains of True Blue
-OAL = 1.268
-I'll try and take some pics but don't know if my camera will have enough resolution to show it;
-The brass is mixed and i have only loaded 100 with no problems. But some will develop the bulge when i'm seating/crimping the bullets.

Seedtick
April 10, 2010, 02:45 AM
I was thinking guppy belly Glock brass until you said this.
But some will develop the bulge when i'm seating/crimping the bullets.

I dunno? :confused:

ST

:)

JimKirk
April 10, 2010, 08:29 AM
What kind dies are you using?

Is the bulge only on one side or is it all the way around the case.

Sounds like to me, that you are over crimping and bulging the case.

Photo would help.

Jimmy K

jmorris
April 10, 2010, 09:30 AM
I am going to assume after sizing they fit the gauge and after you load them they don't.?

If that is the case are you seating and crimping at the same time?

If it fits the gauge after sizing, you know it's in seating/crimping that you are causing the problem. If you are seating and crimping in separate steps you can figure out exactly where the problem is, just gauge after each step. My money would be on not enough bell when seating the bullet or too much crimp.

ReloaderFred
April 10, 2010, 10:58 AM
Brass in .45 acp varies widely in thickness, with Winchester normally the thickest, with Federal next, along with IMI and PMC. The thinnest is Remington, with Speer about falling into the middle.

Brass thickness usually isn't an issue with jacketed bullets sized .451", but with cast bullets that are properly sized to .452" in diameter, it can sometimes be an issue. With that said, do the rounds fit in the chamber of your barrel? If so, put the gauge away and use the barrel for your gauge. After all, you're going to shoot these rounds through your pistol, not the gauge.

I think you'll find that they will fit and shoot just fine.

Hope this helps.

Fred

918v
April 10, 2010, 11:06 AM
Bottom of the case wall, like in the middle of the case? Or lower?

tydephan
April 10, 2010, 11:23 AM
Sounds like you need to back your crimping die off a little. I had the same issue with .40 brass when I first started loading.

rcmodel
April 10, 2010, 11:31 AM
OAL = 1.268It seems to me that 1.268" is too long for any 200 grain LSWC bullet.

I think your issue may not be bulges, but rather the front driving band is running into the rifling leade before the round is fully chambered.

Lyman #49 lists two different 200 LSWC bullet designs in .45 ACP.
One seats 1.161", and the other seats 1.235".

Try seating the front driving band just short of the case mouth and see how those chamber.

Your taper crimp should return the case mouth bell to straight, and measure no more then .471". or less then .469".

rc

243winxb
April 10, 2010, 11:36 AM
If bulge at the extractor groove>Load to HOT for a firearm with an unsupported chamber, reduce your load. The 7.8gr maximum load listed would do better in a full supported chamber. Make sure you have the correct recoil spring in your Gold Cup. But some will develop the bulge when i'm seating/crimping the bullets. Then its not a pressure problem.

chagasrod
April 10, 2010, 11:53 PM
Sorry guys. I Was at work and just now i'm seeing all these posts.
I'm going to try and answer all of the above questions:

JimKirk- I'm using RCBS Dies and yes the bulge is all around the wall of the case. I Think i am over crimping;

jmorris- Yes, they fit the gauge after sizing not after having the bullet seated and i am seating/crimping in one step. Also think the problem is my over crimping;

ReloaderFred- They Do Not Fit my chamber;

918v- It's a little lower;

tydephan- I will try and back off the crimper die'

rcmodel- I will try all of the above. Thank you!

243winxb- I Haven't shot those rounds yet. I'm a newbie but i don't think the load is the problem. Thanks anyways.

Thank you all for responding. I Appreciate it!!!

918v
April 11, 2010, 12:19 AM
I Think i am over crimping

Yup.

I crimp to remove the bell from the case mouth. That's it. I don't try to measure the degree of crimp. I just look at the case. I want the case wall to be parallel to the bullet shank, not digging into it.

JimKirk
April 11, 2010, 06:50 AM
It is quite hard to get seating and crimping just right, but it is doable, more or less trial and error until you get it right. It gets much easier once you learn what to look for as you are setting up a load. I always make it a habit to check the very first few rounds that I load, just to make sure they fit my gun before I go all out loading. That check will save you much time and cussing. Like Fred said, use the gun for the gauge and put the other gauge in the drawer.... thats all that really counts ...that it fits the gun!!

Jimmy K

Walkalong
April 11, 2010, 09:59 AM
I crimp to remove the bell from the case mouth. That's it. I don't try to measure the degree of crimp. I just look at the case. I want the case wall to be parallel to the bullet shank, not digging into it.
Exactly, although in the last couple of months due to questions here I have measured some crimps to find out what it was. I have always adjusted the crimp by eye using a loupe to check it. As long as all the rounds had the bell removed, and none of them had more than a schosh of actual inner movement, I was happy.


Here is a pic of some loaded .45 ACP rounds using mixed range brass with various bullets using a light taper crimp. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6284211&postcount=63)


As others have posted, just enough to remove the bell and a hair more. I adjust the crimp die so all the shortest brass gets the bell removed completely, while the longest brass will end up with maybe .001 to .002 worth of crimp.

The bullets pictured run from .451 to .452. No problems with buldges in thin or thick brass. No FCD to "iron" them out. No need to change the carefully loaded round.

I have three .45 sizers. On one the ID of the carbide ring is .465, which will not give adequate neck tension with Remington brass. The next is .463, which I use most of the time, and was used to load the rounds in the pic. The third one is .461, and it works just fine, but will give some of the rounds a bottlenecked look. It comes in handy as well sometimes.

bds
April 11, 2010, 10:51 AM
I crimp to remove the bell from the case mouth. That's it. I don't try to measure the degree of crimp. I just look at the case. I want the case wall to be parallel to the bullet shank, not digging into it.

Same here. walkalong, I just love those "loaded" pictures. :D

When I first started reloading 40S&W, I did find myself having to crimp just slightly to remove the sharp case neck edge from newer cases to feed properly. After trying different things to improve feeding, I found increasing the OAL just a bit fixed the feeding problem and I was ok just to taper crimp to remove the flaring from the case.

As discussed on other threads, heavy crimp don't necessarily promise good feeding/chambering. As the slide moves forward to strip a round from the magazine, the nose of the bullet gets "angled" towards the chamber and as soon as the case base clears the magazine lips, the magazine follower "pops/pushes" the case base up the breech/extractor to line up the case with the chamber - the case neck often never even touch the ramp/chamber opening - and that's why SWC loads well even though it's got a bullet shoulder.

pcwirepro
April 11, 2010, 12:28 PM
Not to hijack but... If there is inadequate neck tension is that an indication of too much belling? If I bell the case mouth just enough to prevent shaving a LSWC and then crimp only to remove that bell I can still press the projectile into the case. This has happened with Berrys 230 GR RN as well.

bds
April 11, 2010, 12:42 PM
If there is inadequate neck tension is that an indication of too much belling?
I do not believe so.

With FMJ/plated bullets, I flare (bell) the case just enough for the bullet base not to "catch" on the case neck rim.

With lead bullets, I flare the case a bit more so the case neck doesn't shave off lead from side of the bullet ending up with lead sliver ring on top of the neck rim. Setting bullet flat (square) on top of the case neck during seating also helps instead of "tilting" the bullet.

Whenever possible, I work with the least amount of flaring and test the neck tension by pressing as hard as I can on the bullet against the bench with my fingers/thumb. They should never move regardless of bullet type (jacketed, plated, lead, moly).

918v
April 11, 2010, 12:43 PM
What are you belling with? If your die has an expander plug intended for a .454" bullet (i.e. older 45 Colt), then your case tension will be inadequate for a .451" bullet.

bds
April 11, 2010, 01:06 PM
This has happened with Berrys 230 GR RN as well.

I have noticed "some" plated bullets use too soft of lead core and sometimes doesn't hold the neck tension as well as FMJ or other plated bullets (Rainier/Berrys) - for these, I have used almost no flaring of case with more taper crimp to maximize the neck tension.

Many on THR threads have also mentioned in the past that Berrys may use different bullet casters for their base lead core and the hardness/consistency may vary. Not sure if this is true still, but the 9mm/40S&W Berry's bullets bought last year seem to be fine holding tight neck tension. I have never had any problems with Rainier Ballistics plated bullets not holding neck tension either.

BTW, I full-length size all of my cases and load FMJ/plated bullets to typical OAL (1.125" for 9/40 and 1.25" for 45 except MBC 9mm lead "small ball" to 1.08" - 1.1" OAL due to bullet profile).

Try decreasing the flare to minimum and start with "flat" taper crimp to see if the neck tension is sufficient.

Walkalong
April 11, 2010, 03:00 PM
Excessive belling can hurt neck tension simply because it will be down farther than the taper crimp die goes.

Do like bds does for belling and you'll be just fine.

bds
April 11, 2010, 03:54 PM
If there is inadequate neck tension is that an indication of too much belling?

Excessive belling can hurt neck tension simply because it will be down farther than the taper crimp die goes.

You know, I just tried some extreme flaring of cases and it does affect neck tension (I have only used minimal flaring before so haven't considered the "extreme" trumpet-like flaring).

walkalong, with the bullet dropping down freely so low it's like trying to neck tension with only 1/4 of the bullet base.

Beside, that's gotta overwork the brass. :eek:

pcwirepro
April 11, 2010, 04:23 PM
Whenever possible, I work with the least amount of flaring and test the neck tension by pressing as hard as I can on the bullet against the bench with my fingers/thumb. They should never move regardless of bullet type (jacketed, plated, lead, moly).
This has been my method as well. I crimp until I can't move the bullet. Sometimes this is too much crimp.

What are you belling with? If your die has an expander plug intended for a .454" bullet (i.e. older 45 Colt), then your case tension will be inadequate for a .451" bullet.
I'm using new Hornady dies for .45 ACP so they should be correct.

Try decreasing the flare to minimum and start with "flat" taper crimp to see if the neck tension is sufficient.
I think this is what I'll do.

I may be over belling in an effort to keep lead and lube off my hands and from inside my dies. Better to get the fit right than to maintain a sterile environment I guess. There seems to be a fine line (at least with the bullets I'm currently using) between too much and not enough crimp. With both of my 1911 models I seem to be over crimping to achieve a nick "clink" when the bullet is dropped into the barrel.
Still learning.

Now back to that OP's "bulge at the bottom" issue. Ha! Sounds like a girl I once dated.

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