Any suggestions for loading 225 FTX in the 45 Colt for the 460 XVR?


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Scrapperz
April 10, 2010, 02:28 PM
The title says it all. Does anyone have any ideas about loading this bullet in the 45 Colt? http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Colt-225-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/


http://www.hornady.com/assets/images/products/bullets/cutouts/bullets-lever-ftx-cutaway.jpg
http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-225-gr-FTX/

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jmortimer
April 10, 2010, 06:23 PM
For hot 296 or 110 - I load medium and 10 grains of Unique might get you 1,100 fps. I don't think you want to drive that bullet to the max as I doubt it will stay in one piece.

Scrapperz
April 10, 2010, 07:08 PM
Good thought jmortimer. Thank you

Jesse Heywood
April 10, 2010, 09:28 PM
I would assume you need to talk to Hornady, since it's fairly new. For speed, they show the 225 in 44 mag up to 1750 fps.

zxcvbob
April 10, 2010, 09:42 PM
Do you have any Casull brass?
That's a rifle bullet; I assume you will be shooting from a long-barrel handgun? (8-ish inches?)

Scrapperz
April 10, 2010, 10:21 PM
Yes I do have Casull Brass along with 460 mag brass. I'm still trying to do research on this so I'm not going to just jump the gun and go off shooting without having my facts together. I know Hornady is working on load data for this bullet, but I'm not sure in what cartridges yet. They said to periodicly check their page for load data for the FTX.

I'm gonna be using 460 XVR 8 3/8".

zxcvbob
April 10, 2010, 11:28 PM
I've been playing with QuickLoad, and it looks like about 26.5 grains of Alliant 2400 in .454 Casull brass should be a good starting place, and 2400 is a lot more flexible than 296 if you find you need to reduce the load. (OAL doesn't make any difference because it will be *way* under the 65000 psi limit -- about 40000 psi) You should get about 1800 fps from your XVR, which is in range for what a .45 Colt jacketed rifle bullet should expect.

I used a Hornady XTP MAG bullet #45220 for the calculations, reducing the weight from 240 gn to 225. Be careful, this is just a simulation using a lot of assumptions. Do not try it with .45 Colt brass until you get real data from Hornady. HTH

Scrapperz
April 10, 2010, 11:33 PM
zxcvbob

Thank you very much for using your QuickLoad for this. I was kinda curious and hoping that one of you guys with this program would try it and see what you come up with.

Also I will heed your warning.

jmortimer
April 11, 2010, 12:52 AM
I would email Hornady - example - there are three .452 XTPs one is for .45 Colt and two are for "Mag" (i.e. .454/.460 or I suppose "Ruger Only") - Hornady loads the Leverevolution FTX 225 at 960 FPS for 460 ft lbs out of a 4.75" barrel. They load the 225 grain FTX .44 mag at 1410 and 933 ft lbs out of a 7.5 inch barrel. I would have to think the .45 Colt version might not be able to take "Ruger only" loads at 1,300 fps plus. I still think 10 grains of Unique would be a great load. If you are punching paper it would not make difference but if you are hunting or for self defense I can't see how 1,100 FPS would not work on most anything with 605 ft lbs. I still think it will "blow-up" at "Mag" levels but Hornady should know.

Scrapperz
April 11, 2010, 01:05 AM
I do know the 200 FTX they make specifically for the 460 Mag has a thick wall and base to withstand the high velocities 2300 fps and I know they make their bullets to fit specific applications which is why I put this question out there. This 225 FTX was in 45 Colt loads when I first saw them and so I bought a box and shot them in my 460, I was happy with them so I now have a box a bullets 225 FTX to play with to try to duplicate what I bought. Knowing these bullets were made specifically for 45 Colt loads tells me they may not be able to take the velocities the 460 XVR can handle, therefore I would try to keep the velocities close to what Hornady's factory loads are which would be 960 fps - 1200 fps.

zxcvbob
April 11, 2010, 11:06 AM
If you have any of the originals, you could chronograph them to find out what the velocity really was, then duplicate it pretty easily.

If you want to keep it down to 1200-1300 fps, use .45 Colt brass with 10 grains of Unique or 11 grains of Herco. (I shoot 255 grain cast bullets in my Blackhawk sometimes with 12 grains of Herco) If that's still too fast for you, just back off the powder a little more until you get what you want.

Scrapperz
April 11, 2010, 12:17 PM
zxcvbob,

Good Idea, Thanks. I'm gonna try a few at 10 and 11 grains of Unique in a few weeks.

buck460XVR
April 11, 2010, 12:20 PM
If it was me, and I couldn't wait to get the proper info from Hornady, I would load them to the specs given for their 250gr XTP in .45 LC cases and work from there using the same practices as developing any new load. Your certainly aren't gonna hurt the gun if they're a little hot, but by rights, starting at the min load for a heavier bullet, your load should not be hot at all.

Now believe me Scrapperz, and excuse me if I am, cause I'm not trying to be critical here, but IMHO I see no advantage to paying the premium price for the LEVERevolution bullets to be shot outta a handgun. The flex tip is basically to improve ballistics at rifle velocities and to be safe to use in tubular magazines. Neither of which applies to a .460 handgun loaded to standard .45 LC velocities. Hornady's 250gr XTP is cheaper and performs very well at .45 LC velocities and there is a wealth of proven reloading info out there for it. Bullets designed for .45 LC can be safely loaded and shot outta .460 cases with reduced loads and are accurate and much cheaper than the Premium Red Tips. Now I realize if one has a box of 'em, it don't make sense to not load and shoot them(been there, done that), but other than they look cool, I cannot see any advantage to use them in a handgun. Hornady's 240gr and 300gr XTP'Mags are excellent bullets for the .460 and can also be shot using moderate loads that shoot very comfortably outta a 8 3/8'' XVR. I have a load using 260 gr Speer JHPs(I got a bunch cheap) and a reduced load of IMR4227 that shoots almost to the same POA as my 240/300gr. hunting loads.

Scrapperz
April 11, 2010, 12:32 PM
buck460XVR, I understand your point in that these bullets are not applicable to the revolver I'm using, but I'm gonna try a few anyway and that will be the end of that,lol. Also Thank You for your suggestion as I will probably try it eventually. Hey ya never know I might end up with a rifle that shoots these someday :).

buck460XVR
April 11, 2010, 12:49 PM
Also Thank You for your suggestion as I will probably try it eventually.

No problem. Loading for the .460 has been a challenge for me and after 3 years I think I'm starting to get 'er figured out. Originally there was not a whole lot of info for the cartridge out there and what was varied widely and most of the time was too hot for me and my gun. I've now taken a conservative approach to reloading for it and have found by chrono-ing my loads that my velocities are not suffering for it. I see on another forum you got the suggestion to try Trail Boss. This is something I have been playing around with and have had good results with. Go to the the Hodgdon web site.....they have a formula there for developing reduced loads with TB. I e-mailed them and they said assured me that the formula would work for jacketed bullets and the .460.

Here is a link.....Trail Boss Reduced Loads (http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf)

Scrapperz
April 11, 2010, 02:10 PM
Ahhhh yes the Trail Boss Reduced loads, I do want to try this one out sometime. I really do like my 460. I have been Hand-loading since I was a little boy and am still learning, which is why I like these forums and the people who join them.

Also I do find that you don't have to go to max loads for this gun be fun and accurate. Here's some of the reading I been doing.

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=81&pictureid=360

sourdough44
April 11, 2010, 09:27 PM
FYI, I loaded some 250 grain FTX bullets in 45 Colt cases for my Blackhawk. I tried a few different loads but 9.7 grains of Unique gave me 1075 or so across the chrony, again with the 250 grn FTX. I tried 2400 but was on the low side at 18.5 or so grains, same bullet.

460xvr
April 30, 2010, 09:10 AM
have you guys had any issues using normal 250gr xtp at full loads?
and any suggestions for 250 gr hard cast bullets?

oldpink
June 15, 2012, 04:26 PM
Folks, I have been using these for some time now, and I have to point out that these bullets were designed for RIFLE VELOCITIES, hence the groundbreaking soft polymer tip, something specifically created to allow spitzer bullets -- with their much better ballistic coefficients -- to be safely loaded into tubular magazine (mainly lever action) rifles for the first time.
I load these all the way to the levels recommended safe only in the Ruger Blackhawk/Colt Anaconda/Dan Wesson/Ruger Redhawk/Thompson Contender .45 Colt guns.
The bullets hold together just fine and in fact show good accuracy from my 7.5" barreled Blackhawk.
I currently am going to hunt deer with them using the same loads in my new Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt, and my Chrony indicates they are moving along at a warm 1560fps from its 20" barrel.
My load consists of 25 grains of W296, fired by a Federal large pistol magnum primer from Starline brass.
From my Marlin, I was able to put the entire magazine of ten rounds into a single ragged hole @ 50 yards.
Keep in mind here that these loads are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS in Colt SAA, any of the various clones (Uberti, etc.), the Colt New Service, S&W 25, and any other .45 Colt not mentioned above that can withstand these "+P" level loads.
In other words, if your .45 Colt gun is not expressly listed as safe for firing Corbon's +P or Buffalo Bore or Double Tap, do NOT fire them in your gun.
Oh, and the bullets hang together just fine at the well over 1500 fps I am getting out of my Marlin.
Remember, these were designed for RIFLES, so all the hyper-cautiousness about kicking them up in the .460VXR is ridiculous.

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