? For DPMS LR308 Owners , 18 or 24 Barrel


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67rschev
April 10, 2010, 08:31 PM
Hey All , I dont troll her much , but I thought I would get more feedback here at High Road than my usual haunts . I am in the market for a reach out rifle . I started looking at some nice bolt guns such as the Tikka T3 in Tac , Rem 700 Tac and so forth . I was at a local gun shop talking about my needs and fondling a few prospects when the owner started singing the praises of the DPMS LR308 and how they are as accurate and most bolt guns in 308 . I'm really not a black gun kind of guy , so I handled it , played with it for a few and moved on . After coming home I did a little more research and was VERY surprised by all of the comments and reviews that I found on line about this firearm . Seems like the prices of black guns haave really come back into line . Needless to say I sold myself on one of these , and before I toss the greenbacks down on one , I was wondering about a few of the options available .

First off and my most important question , Is the 24 inch barrel any more accurate than the 18 . Weight is not a real issue as it will be a bench / target gun , but if i dont need that extra wight than why . I figure the extra 6 inches will get me a little more speed , as possibly a little less recoil but I am more concerned with MOA , and I will be reloading . Will both shoot to 600 ? What about 1000 ?

Is the A3 receiver a worth while upgrade and why ?

It is my understanding , that any AR trigger will work , is that correct ? Stock trigger feels like poop on the one I played with , gonna need some work for sure .

Fluting is not really necessary , but what about the brake , is that worth the extra dough ?

Thanks

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W.E.G.
April 10, 2010, 08:39 PM
The stock DPMS trigger is nothing more than a placeholder for whatever aftermarket trigger you decide you want.

I put a Rock River non-adjustable two-stage in mine.
Very user-friendly trigger.
I don't shoot the gun that much. So, I'm sure the trigger will outlast me.

My 16" LR-308T likes to do this with Sierra 168-grain ammo.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/targets/2008-08-18%20-%20DPMS/M852smaller.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/DPMS/DSCN4983.jpg

67rschev
April 12, 2010, 08:57 PM
Great , so any drop in ar15 trigger group will work then . What about accuracy of the 18 vs the 24 ? Anyone ? A3 lower a worth while upgrade ?

Juice Boxes
April 12, 2010, 11:21 PM
The a3 upper is a necessary upgrade if you plan to install optics as it provides a rail to mount them on. You can mount optics directly to the carrying handle but this holds many limitations such as the optic being very high. Accuracy will not differ depending on barrel length. The only thing that differs with barrel length is velocity.

You should also look at different 7.62 ar's such as LWRCI's REPR, larues OBR, POF's P308, or JP's LRP 07 these rifles will be substantially more expensive, but I believe that this upfront investment is worth it. I would even look at armalites AR-10 over a DPMS even though magazines are harder to come by. The quality of these rifles will be much better than a DPMS.

This site has many mfg's for 762 ars. http://308ar.com/index.html

I would take my imput with a grain of salt just because I have some weird dislike for DPMS that stems from readings on the internet.

67rschev
April 13, 2010, 09:42 AM
"I would take my imput with a grain of salt just because I have some weird dislike for DPMS that stems from readings on the internet "

Please enlighten me , any links ? I'm not looking at spending over 1500 , so alot of the options are out . May go back to the original plan and pick up a 700 and put on a good stock and detachable mag set up . And I'm Not looking to put a handle on the firearm , so the flat top is not an issue , as this will be a target / bench gun . I'm more concerned with the LR having a good shooting barrel out of the box .

Tirod
April 13, 2010, 10:08 AM
One consideration is that the AR platform lets you be the gunsmith. The modular take apart design allows a lot of parts substitution as skills reach the hardware's limits. Like the trigger, it's a drop in, whether a Thompson stock group stoned to a nice break, or a $250 AR Gold drop in that handles like glass. If skills progress to the point that a certain kind of parts looks like it could yield that next tightening up of another 1/2 MOA, then you can buy it, ship it to the house, and install it yourself. Lot's of AR builders do all the simple assembly of parts, right down to barrels, gas blocks, and sight bases. It's simpler than working on cars.

On the other hand, there are lots of vendors of lots of high speed low drag bits that are hugely expensive for the tiny improvement on accuracy. Like the difference in 18" or 24" barrels, that 6 inches doesn't bring anything to the table in accuracy, just a little velocity. A better bullet and load could do as much. The money saved could go toward the $3,500 scope most professional long distance shooters use to actually see targets and dial in holdover at 1000 yards.

The horrible reality is that real long distance shooters have less in the gun than the scope, and spend a lot of time in the field practicing at unknown distances to perfect their craft. Comparably, known distance targets on a range are no brainers. One day on a range like that dials in the scope and sets up the log book to determine holdovers.

Sniper shoots for competition are laid out with no spotter rounds, no known distances, and a time limit that stresses the shooter as they move from one natural feature to another. As a result, course records are usually a few shots less than perfect.

Taking one shot to score at a target up to 1,750 yards away is challenging.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 13, 2010, 10:08 AM
First off and my most important question , Is the 24 inch barrel any more accurate than the 18?

No, it won't be any more *inherently* accurate! But it will improve practical accuracy at longer ranges in the wind, due to more velocity (the wind has less time to work against the bullet because it reaches the target faster). Drop is also minimized with the longer bbl / more velocity. But if you cannot decide, then why not split the difference and get a 20 or 22" bbl?


Weight is not a real issue as it will be a bench / target gun , but if i dont need that extra weight then why?

You might 'need' or want the extra weight and bbl length to increase your velocity and your stability of your rig before firing (I certainly would), to improve your 'practical accuracy' (see above), espec. in windy conditions, on a bench gun. But better yet, get a turnbolt and forget the DPMS. A turnbolt is many times more pleasant to load, unload, shoot, and handle your brass with, than an AR. Not to mention likely more accurate and much easier to make very accurate.


I figure the extra 6 inches will get me a little more speed , as possibly a little less recoil but I am more concerned with MOA , and I will be reloading.

You won't LOSE any accuracy from the longer barrel, 99.9% chance, but you will gain the practical accuracy. But again, get a turnbolt with a 24-30" bbl if shooting for long distances - BTDT, and it's easier / more pleasant than a semi-auto.

Will both shoot to 600 ? What about 1000?

Of course. With accuracy? Depends on what kind of accuracy you want. Those are extreme ranges, so you need extreme accuracy if you want a smile on your face. That means a quality semi-custom or custom turnbolt. Not to say that an AR won't do it, but it's likely going to be more difficult to accomplish the same level of accuracy. One reason, as you mention, the stock trigger sucks on an AR, but they are good right out of the box in many turnbolts (Kimber, Sako, Tikka, CZ, T/C, Cooper, etc.). So right off the bat, you're out another however much $$ and time trying to improve the trigger, which could have gone instead to the quality of your barrel in your turnbolt choice. So to answer the question more directly, realistically the answer is NO, it's not meant or designed for those extreme ranges, unless you're satisfied with "hitting a van" with every shot. Do you have a Ford Econoline to stick out there at 1K yards?

Is the A3 receiver a worthwhile upgrade and why?

If you mean the flattop feature (instead of a fixed carry handle iron sight), then yes absolutely, you want the flattop.

It is my understanding , that any AR trigger will work , is that correct ?

I don't know.


but what about the brake , is that worth the extra dough ?

Not only is it not worth the extra dough, it would be worth paying more to take one OFF, in most circumstances. Generally, there is no reason to add a loudener to your rifle for anything under a .338 maggie, IMO. And especially a semi-auto, which absorbs a lot of the recoil. Very glad I removed the factory brake from my DPMS LR-260L. It has an 18" bbl, but it has a very different role from what you describe. It's meant to be a semi-lightweight hunting and self-defense rifle, not a long-range rifle. Having said that, if it's gonna be ONLY a bench gun, and you don't mind irritating the guy on either side of you a bit, then there is some small value to a brake, but only if you're trying for rapid follow-up shots and/or shooting hundreds of rounds where your shoulder will start to get abused. Otherwise, they're just loudeners/ irritators.

Juice Boxes
April 13, 2010, 11:26 PM
If you want to go to a bolt rifle I would go savage over remington.

I love remington more than savage, but right now savage makes a better gun for the money.

My dislike for DPMS comes from partly seeing my uncle's couple DPMSes and comparing them to my REPR, AR-10, and Armalite AR-15 along with minor complaints on random posts. I don't hear these same complaints for "nicer" AR's, but that might be due to the fact there could be less purchasers. My uncles DPMSes are definatly not to be down-talked as they are nice rifles for the $. Most of my motive for dislike is more of a FORD vs Dodge type thing(every guy has his own opinion and there is some merit to both sides). It probably isnt worth the extra money to get a "nice" 7.62 ar, but since a firearm holds its value very well I don't see the problem making that upfront investment for quality.

I got my AR-10t for 1700 some dollars and am very impressed with the accuracy it is easily a sub 1/2 MOA gun. I am able to make 1 inch groups at 200 yds with a bipod. If I had to get a 7.62 ar for under 2 grand I would not hesitate one instant to jump on that. The only slight problem is that many parts are not interchangeable with other 7.62 ar's but there are plenty of parts available just for it. The only thing i don't like about it is it doesnt accept P-mags :( .

For a bench / target gun I would stick with a bolt gun. It wont want to shoot as much ammunition and will be easier to maintain. There is no need for the semi automatic feature other than rapid target acquisition, which wont be needed for normal target shooting.

I would definitely get a bull/target bbl on a target AR.

Armalite's two stage trigger that comes standard on all of their Ar's is very nice and clean which would probably eliminate the need for an aftermarket trigger, but it still isnt a giessle.

I would always recommend even getting a cheaper rifle and putting some nicer glass on it. Right now I am really liking night force though i cant wait to see Vortex's new tactical line of scopes.

67rschev
April 14, 2010, 12:40 AM
Thank you for the replies . Most of what you guys are thinking , has all ready been swirling around in my head for a while about this next purchase . Still in full research mode on whatever my new addition will be .

I handled the Armalight in the price range , looked like a good build , but just not my cup of tea .

I agree , the 700 is and was my first canadate , it would be a good platform to build on . I would allso like to test fit the Tikka , seems to get good reviews . I have a Savage in 17hmr , and the Accutriger is fantastic for a stock gun at that pricepoint , but not interested in their bigger bolt guns .

It looks like from DPMS their A3 version will get you the shield and forward assist added to your lower , and i don't know if there are any other differences between the two that would be advantageous one way or the other ?

darkknight
April 14, 2010, 05:25 PM
Dpms uses pmags. A huge plus why pay 25 or more for a mag when a 15 dollar pmags will do it and be almost indestructible. Also more guns are being made to dpms standards than made to non dpms standard. More parts are or will be available if needed to fix the gun. Will a bolt gun outshoot dpms yes. But can a bolt gun engage as many targets in the same time. It's a tradeoff. If you were going to buy a ga precision bolt. I would say go that route but because u want a production rifle. go with the one you will have more fun with.

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