m16 fire control group


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bkjeffrey
April 12, 2010, 10:42 AM
Theres a fella on another forum I frequent selling an AR upper and lower reciever parts kit.

The lower reciever parts kit has a full auto fire control group. You can see in his ad pic there is an auto-sear, m16 notched safety and the hammer has the hook on the back. All indicators of full auto.

Is this legal for private ownership? I thought all existing legal FA sears had serial numbers on them and they transferred just like a machine gun would?

He calims that the parts are from a demilled Colt m4 police trade in. As far as I know these parts would not be legal to put in a semi AR15 because that would be considered an attempt to make a machinegun.

Whats going on here:confused:

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TexasRifleman
April 12, 2010, 11:09 AM
If the receiver has the hole drilled for an auto sear it's illegal unless it has a tax stamp.

Even a receiver with just the hole and no parts is considered a machine gun.

Bad bad stuff sounds like.

Just using the hammer and safety from an M16 in and of itself isn't directly illegal, but it is recommended against by the alphabet boys.

bkjeffrey
April 12, 2010, 11:27 AM
Just using the hammer and safety from an M16 in and of itself isn't directly illegal
Where in the world would someone even get these types of parts? The sear especially? Arent they supposedly all "accounted" for?

TexasRifleman
April 12, 2010, 11:29 AM
Where in the world would someone even get these types of parts? The sear especially? Arent they supposedly all "accounted" for?

M16 sears are not regulated, you can buy them easily enough. It's the actual use that is the problem. You can mail order them all day for a few bucks.

There is a difference between an M16 sear and the so called "drop in" sears. Genuine M16 auto sears require an extra hole be drilled in the receiver to make all the geometry work.

So, possession of an M16 sear and an AR receiver that doesn't have the extra hole isn't a problem really since it can't do anything that way, the sear can't even be installed in the receiver. Wouldn't want to own both myself, but it's not necessarily a crime.

That's why ATF considers just the presence of the hole in the receiver a machine gun, since the sear is so easily obtained.

Now, if this is a receiver with one of the "drop in" sears installed that's different. Those sears, since they require no modification of the receiver, are considered "machine guns" by themselves.

bkjeffrey
April 12, 2010, 01:05 PM
Ahh, ok....thanks.

zebcoboy
April 19, 2010, 01:26 PM
Here's the rub. If you own one of these kits and an AR-15 and the ATFE wants your butt for some other reason they will likely prosecute you for having a machine gun because an AR can be converted with these parts, a Dremel and a drill bit. Are they running around looking for these gun owners, I think not. They have better things to do but I would stay away from this deal if I were you, just in case.

seanie!
April 19, 2010, 02:05 PM
Don't forget how many AK full auto fire control groups are floating around everywhere because of all the demilled kits. You can find them pretty much anywhere and everywhere, and from what I understand, just having an AK and the parts does not constructive intent make. You supposedly need that magic 3rd hole drilled in your receiver to get into trouble.

nalioth
April 19, 2010, 05:15 PM
<snip>but I would stay away from this deal if I were you, just in case.. . this one . .

. . . the next one . . .

. . . the one after that . . .

We're starting to see a lot of "AR15" kits come in to the country that were originally M16/M4 type rifles.

Are you advising everyone to not buy them?

Bottom line: Don't have a receiver that will accept the "go fast" parts, as the parts that will fit a civilian receiver won't make it "go fast".

Zack
April 20, 2010, 02:10 PM
Where in the world would someone even get these types of parts? The sear especially? Arent they supposedly all "accounted" for?

M16 sears are not regulated, you can buy them easily enough. It's the actual use that is the problem. You can mail order them all day for a few bucks.

There is a difference between an M16 sear and the so called "drop in" sears. Genuine M16 auto sears require an extra hole be drilled in the receiver to make all the geometry

Yeah they will drop you in jail for doing such a thing as making it full auto without class 3 and tax stamp

Sam1911
April 20, 2010, 04:26 PM
making it full auto without class 3Say again?

"Class 3" describes a DEALER in Title II firearms (Special Occupational Tax, Class 03, FFL Type 01, usually). It isn't a license to make full-auto guns. (That would be a Class 02 manufacturer of NFA weapons, but they still can't manufacture new ones for civilian ownership.)

In the case of a "Drop In Auto Sear," the piece of metal (the sear) is registered AS the machine gun itself. It "IS" a firearm, under the BATF's interpretation of Title II of the NFA, and it can be used in any AR-15 that will accept it. They are designed to work differently from an M-16 auto sear and don't need a hole drilled in the receiver.

So, if you legally own a registered DIAS, you can indeed make your AR-15 full auto with it. But, yes, you will need to file your form 4, pay the tax, receive your stamp, and pay someone a RIDICULOUS amount of money for that little piece of metal.

RyanM
April 20, 2010, 05:09 PM
Just using the hammer and safety from an M16 in and of itself isn't directly illegal, but it is recommended against by the alphabet boys.

Just to expand on that a bit, the two M-16 parts you don't want to have are the disconnector and the auto-sear. An M-16 disconnector in conjunction with an M-16 selector, in an AR-15, will make the hammer follow the bolt down when the selector is in the go-fast position, which could result in a slam-fire (incredibly unsafe full auto that will probably blow up the gun). And the auto-sear plus an electric drill may constitute constructive intent, depending on what kind of mood the ATF is in.

Absolutely none of the other parts has any potentially illegal effect on operation beyond the removal of SP-1 "features" which are now commonly left off anyway, and the selector gives you a 2nd semi-auto position when used with an AR-15 disconnector. If anything, a partial M-16 FCG may improve reliability, since the hammer weighs a fraction of an ounce more, and seems to cock farther back. An AR-15 goes "BONK!!!!!" when it resets in semi-auto, while an M-16 just goes "click."

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