Do you leave your clips full of ammo?


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gmh1013
April 12, 2010, 12:17 PM
Or half full? Will leaving it full shorten the clip's life.
I have a Sig Pro I keep loaded with 13 rounds to keep a full load off the springs but read it wont make much diff in the springs life.

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dovedescending
April 12, 2010, 12:21 PM
Clips... don't have springs...

As far as I know, it's the loading/unloading that eventually wears out a spring. Leaving a magazine full won't shorten its little life by any appreciable amount.

The Bushmaster
April 12, 2010, 12:56 PM
Noooo, but I leave my magazine that I carry fully loaded. It hasn't been unloaded (except for cleaning) for over a year. That includes the magazine in the Kimber...

Fastcast
April 12, 2010, 01:15 PM
I know the new thing is to believe leaving them fully loaded doesn't ruin/weaken the springs. I'm not really buying that logic. I've seen far too many used pistols sold by little old ladies, with full mags, that had shot springs. Their husband died 10 plus years ago and she finally decides to sell his gun but never would touch it, to unload the mags.

IMO.....Spring steel will develop memory if compressed continuously for too long.

I'm sure some will say I'm crazy but the poof is in the pudding.

possum
April 12, 2010, 01:22 PM
i keep my magazines full if of course they are my HD, and or CCW mags, if they are training mags then they are not left full after i leave the range.

Demitrios
April 12, 2010, 01:33 PM
Fastcast says: IMO.....Spring steel will develop memory if compressed continuously for too long.

I don't mean to belittle you or your opinion but spring steel was designed specifically to retain its "memory" even when compressed or distorted. Chances are the pistols you've witnessed being sold by widows were probably uncared for and improperly maintained so that when they were sold the magazines were in poor condition as well.

KenW.
April 12, 2010, 01:38 PM
I have some 1911 mags that have been loaded twelve - thirteen years and they seem fine.

I got my Grandpa's Nazi Hi-Power in his will; I know that mag had been loaded for a generation and still works great.

Ala Dan
April 12, 2010, 01:39 PM
My duty magazines, and my home defense magazines were/and are always
left loaded; that includes magazines for the West German SIG-SAUER P220A,
the Springfield Armory XD [both in .45 ACP), as well as the KEL-TEC P3AT
.380~! ;) :D

1KPerDay
April 12, 2010, 01:41 PM
I keep all my clips and mags loaded. I load them when watching movies, etc. I like being ready when I make a range trip. I've discovered that loading at the range sucks. I generally shoot the ammo I have loaded in mags, then switch to another gun. I don't really bring boxed ammo anymore, except for weird guns I only have one or two mags for.

Fastcast
April 12, 2010, 01:45 PM
Fastcast says:

I don't mean to belittle you or your opinion but spring steel was designed specifically to retain its "memory" even when compressed or distorted.

Of course but like with most things, the way something is designed and they way it performs in the real world are two different things. Not to mention not all things are created/manufactured equally. Some springs you may get away with it, others you may not.

I'll prefer to error on the side of caution and rotate my mags so as not to leave them fully loaded for extended periods of time......You may do as you please. After all it's only a spring. :)

AKElroy
April 12, 2010, 01:55 PM
IMO.....Spring steel will develop memory if compressed continuously for too long.

Not so.

I'll prefer to error on the side of caution and rotate my mags so as not to leave them fully loaded for extended periods of time

This practice may acually hasten the demise of your springs, but probably not by much.

Steel weakens when compressed and released; it is this repeated cycle that causes a reduction in the life of the spring. Leaving it fully compressed or decompressed makes no difference to the spring. The change in orientation of molecules needed to change the properties of the spring only occurs with the application of use or heat. Sitting statically compressed applies neither.

Clifford
April 12, 2010, 01:59 PM
If constant pressure caused springs to sag or weaken your car would be sitting on the bumpstops just a few years after it was built. The springs on your car/truck are weakend by repeated cycling just like the springs in your magazines.

Buy well known brand name magazines, make sure they work in your gun. I load mine up and check them up every week for any crap that may have found it's was into them. I'll unload them only once a month for a close inspection (after firing some rounds thru them). After a year of constant loaded duty I replace the spring or the whole magazine and use the old one for range or match duty.

BTW a clip holds ammo to be loaded into the weapon's magazine (mauser's and garand's use clip's) a magazine holds the ammo and helps control feeding of ammo into the weapon. Sorry it's just a little pet peve of mine

M2 Carbine
April 12, 2010, 01:59 PM
IMO.....Spring steel will develop memory if compressed continuously for too long.
Depends on how long "too long" is and the quality of the spring.


I had a loaded SKS spring go soft after only about four years.
On the other hand, in 1961 a fellow at work gave me a fully loaded 1911 magazine that he said his Grandfather brought back from WWI. The fellow said he didn't know what ever happened to the pistol but as long as he can remember the magazine had been in the back of a drawer, fully loaded. He never saw his Grandfather, or anyone else, ever touch the gun.

The mag was loaded with (best I can recall) 1916 dated ammo.

I should have kept the ammo but I wanted to see if it would fire. All seven bullets cleared the barrel but didn't begin to work the slide.

Best I could tell the mag spring was as good as new and the magazine got mixed up with my other 1911 magazines where I'm still using it to this day.

Do you leave your clips full of ammo?
Full. Sometimes for years at a time.

ScratchnDent
April 12, 2010, 02:22 PM
Both.

I keep some loaded all the time, and some more stored clean and empty as spares for when my every day mags eventually wear out, get damaged, or lost.

PTK
April 12, 2010, 02:28 PM
IMO.....Spring steel will develop memory if compressed continuously for too long.

In my (professional, as a mechanical engineer) opinion, you're incorrect. ;)

jkulysses
April 12, 2010, 02:36 PM
The pink power ranger is stronger than the blue one...

nalioth
April 12, 2010, 03:00 PM
I've had clips loaded for decades without any issues.
http://www.novarata.net/images//s/stripper_clip.jpg

I've also had magazines loaded for years without any issues.
http://www.novarata.net/images/a/ak-mag.jpg

This subject clearly belongs with this poor equine:
http://www.novarata.net/BeatDeadHorse.gif

(please use the search, there are hundreds of threads on this subject)

Fastcast
April 12, 2010, 03:09 PM
The change in orientation of molecules needed to change the properties of the spring only occurs with the application of use or heat. Sitting statically compressed applies neither.

Ok than.....What is the natural state of the spring? Uncompressed correct so according to your own explanation, when the spring is compressed the molecules change correct? Now if the spring stays this way and the molecules are not allowed to return to there natural state, they are static but in their unnatural state correct? I'm not following how this could make no difference in the life of the spring. :confused:

Depends on how long "too long" is and the quality of the spring.


I believe this is what I'm saying.....It depends on the quality of the particular spring in question.

If constant pressure caused springs to sag or weaken your car would be sitting on the bumpstops just a few years after it was built. The springs on your car/truck are weakend by repeated cycling just like the springs in your magazines.

I'd bet the farm, that if you took a new car and didn't drive it at all but left it sit (experiment) for say 20 years, that ground clearance would not be as high as when new. :scrutiny:

Carl N. Brown
April 12, 2010, 03:20 PM
I bought two m1 carbine detachable box magazines in a pouch that had been part of an estate auction. They had been left loaded since the end of WWII (1945) and I bought them in the early 1990s. Nearly forty years loaded. I cleaned them up and have used them at the vintage military matches for the past few years. They work fine.

My son had to replace a tube magazine spring in a shotgun that had been left loaded with eight rounds for a period of a few months. I guess it depends a lot on the quality of the steel in the springs and the attention paid to heat treating the springs.

The general rule I have heard is that quality magazine springs are weakened more by frequent flexing than by constant pressure.

Old Shooter
April 12, 2010, 03:37 PM
gmh1013, wake up man, wake up!!!

Don't you know that flexing a magazine spring will being on the second coming and result in the end of life as we know it (according to intenet knowledge anyway)

I have magazines that I have used since 1962 and have worn out several guns before the magizines. (Well, I got rid of the guns and kept the magazines).

It may depend on the manufacturer and the steel used in the springs but I personally haven't seen a worn out spring on a 1911 magazine, not saying it can't happen, just that I haven't had it happen to me, (yet).

Now tomorrow my Commander may decide to puke instead of shoot and I may have to edit this post, so be it.

The Bushmaster
April 12, 2010, 03:39 PM
I sure hope these magazines that I use for my Kimber hurry up and weaken. Make them easier to load...:neener:

Probably not in my life time, darn it!!

RUT
April 12, 2010, 04:16 PM
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss192/rut3556/M16clip.jpg

gmh1013
April 12, 2010, 04:28 PM
I have read the only auto (magazine ) that is not under stress in the 7 round 1911
and have read in a Guns and Ammo that they can be fully loaded for 50+ years and still fire all seven rounds with no ill effects.

powermad
April 12, 2010, 04:48 PM
Here some good reading on the subject that may shed a little light for some.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/..._27/ai_99130369

FindArticles > American Handgunner > May-June, 2003 > Article > Print friendly

Magazine spring madness: 'creep' to your 'elastic limit' to un-earth the urban legend of 'spring-set'
John S. Layman

The shooting sports are full of some of the most knowledgeable and capable people you'll meet anywhere. I've been impressed consistently with the abilities of those I meet at the range to diagnose and fix a gun problem with as little as some spray lube and a cotton swab. However, sometimes a myth will creep into the folklore.

The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?

Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.

Shameful Spring Benders

To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.

Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender.

Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.

We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing.

At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring.

As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement.

Trust Us

When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur.

When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly.

Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth.

RELATED ARTICLE: Definitions

Creep: The flow or plastic deformation of metals held for long periods of time at stresses lower than the normal yield strength.

Elastic Limit: The maximum stress that material will stand before permanent deformation occurs.

Yield Strength: The stress at which the metal changes from elastic to plastic in behavior, i.e., takes a permanent set.

Permanent Set: Non-elastic or plastic, deformation of metal under stress, after passing the elastic limit.

Magazine Recommendations

* Clean your magazines when they get gritty. Apply oil then remove all excess. Oil attracts dirt that may cause malfunction.

* If you find rust on the spring, this is culprit. Rust changes the thickness of the metal and reduces the force applied to the follower. Cleaning off the rust may help. For a gun you depend on, replace the spring. All the major brands and most of the smaller ones have replacement mag springs available or try Wolff Springs.

* If you keep a magazine loaded for long periods, rotate the rounds every few months. If you carry a pistol on the job or in your car, cycle the ammo frequently. These actions prevent creases from forming which may cause a misfeed.

* If you experience feed problems, first clean your magazines and weapon. Fire a couple magazines of new factory ammo to see if this resolves the problem. If not send the magazine back to the manufacturer -- or toss it.

Strahley
April 12, 2010, 04:50 PM
No but I leave my magazines full

BushyGuy
April 12, 2010, 04:52 PM
i keep all my mags loaded, they are built to be loaded for the life of the mags, look at the military and LEO they keep mags always loaded.

it hurts them loading and unloading them more then keeping them stored loaded for years.

9x19sig
April 12, 2010, 05:02 PM
If someone told you that leaving mags full will ruin the spring they were WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Zerodefect
April 12, 2010, 05:40 PM
I only buy the best mags I can find or build 'em myself. I keep them loaded. A good spring can handle it. When it gets old get a new spring. Cheap insurance if your truely worried.

I'd be more worried about the feed lips bending over time.

nalioth
April 12, 2010, 05:43 PM
I'd be more worried about the feed lips bending over time. Said condition only affecting one standard magazine design that I'm aware of . .

highorder
April 12, 2010, 07:14 PM
I keep all my clips and mags loaded. I load them when watching movies, etc. I like being ready when I make a range trip. I've discovered that loading at the range sucks. I generally shoot the ammo I have loaded in mags, then switch to another gun. I don't really bring boxed ammo anymore, except for weird guns I only have one or two mags for.

+1 to all that. Get out of my head.

Also,

Said condition only affecting one standard magazine design that I'm aware of . .

I've heard from the internet that both the 1911 and AR-pattern magazines are susceptible to feed lip deformation over time, supposedly due to pressure from loaded rounds. I'm more inclined to believe the stress occurs during feeding.

Which magazines were you talking about?

Clifford
April 12, 2010, 07:19 PM
Fastcast, you are correct that the ride height will be a little lower brand new vs a couple of miles of service. That said once the springs settle they ARE NOT gonna weaken and sag any lower from sitting with just the vehicle weight on them. Just look around at any scrap yard or even better a used car lot. A 1993 Toyota camry with 100k+ miles isn't gonna sit any lower than the 1999 camry with 30k miles on it.

The quality of springs has come a long way in 100 years. When they are used in the correct manner a coil spring, leafspring or torsion bar has a near infinite life in a vehicle. If a spring is overloaded, overextended or allowed to corrode it will sag and eventually fail.

The spring in the magazine of a firearm has a rough life compared to a suspension spring. When the magazine is loaded the spring is compressed to nearly is full travel (very true in 8 round 1911 mag's). During use the spring in a magazine does not have the help of a dampener to slow down and steady it's extension travel. Also a mag spring has to do it's job with the shortest lenght possible (wire diameter and overall lenght) to allow maximum capacity and still make it easy enough to load the mag.

As long as the spring is properly made and cared for it's not gonna lose tension sitting under a load, unless the spring is overcompressed. 8 round .45 cal and 10 round .38 super 1911 magazines are an example of a magazine with an overworked spring. Compared to the original 7 and 9 round designs the springs in these mag's are shorter and they are compressed further than originally designed.

To help make these mags work the springs would need to be stronger (larger wire diameter). Sounds good but they can't be made much heavier for two reasons. One, the thicker the spring the more room it takes up in the mag body and that limits the number of rounds that can be crammed into it. Two, the heavier the spring the harder it is to load the friggin thing.

In mags like this the springs are asked to a lot of work. Therefore they have a shorter working life.

Hatterasguy
April 12, 2010, 07:27 PM
I keep most of my mags loaded all the time, thats what they are designed for.

I have some WW2 vintage M1 Carbine mags that were probably kept loaded for 30-40 years after the war. They still work fine.

The Lone Haranguer
April 12, 2010, 07:36 PM
Springs fatigue from use (i.e., being rapidly compressed and extended), not compressed in a fixed position. A possible exception might be some magazines that cram a lot of rounds into a small space. Then, the spring might fatigue prematurely due to being overcompressed to start with.

Samkofsky
April 12, 2010, 08:05 PM
Personally I do not leave my magazines loaded, but I have seen 1911/A1 magazines supposedly loaded since WWII that still worked. Magazines springs do loose strength over a period of time, otherwise why would you break them in? Answer: So they're not as difficult to load as they are when new. Especially high capacity pistol magazines. To avoid this problem I carry a revolver most of the time, however if I get "geared up" I'm strapping on a 45 auto with lots of loaded extra mags because they are much faster to load than a revolver for me. And when my arthritis flares up I'll use a magazine loading tool!

And don't worry about getting your terms mixed up, everyone learns a little more every day.

AKElroy
April 12, 2010, 09:55 PM
Ok than.....What is the natural state of the spring? Uncompressed correct so according to your own explanation, when the spring is compressed the molecules change correct?

The natural state is the one they were forged to achieve, a process requiring a lot of heat & repetitive action. By the way, the spring is compressed in a magizine loaded or not. Ask PTK--He's the mechanical engineer. I just hang out here.

pacerdude
April 13, 2010, 07:22 PM
I too, had originally worried about keeping my magazines fully loaded, but then decided that they were made to be completely loaded, and that only having them partially loaded, wasn't going to do me any favors.

INMY01TA
April 13, 2010, 07:33 PM
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/poster33090609rc9-tm.jpg

NG VI
April 13, 2010, 07:44 PM
Don't know, I don't own a Mauser 1896 yet.

glove
April 13, 2010, 07:56 PM
Yes I keep 8 SKS clips full & my pistol mags. are full also. An empty mag. will do you no good.

okespe04
April 13, 2010, 09:30 PM
Mosin and sks clips stay full as to my ak, 1911, and glock mags.

Clarence
April 13, 2010, 09:41 PM
Did you mean clips or magazines? The only two guns that I have that take clips are my M1 Garand and my S&W 625 which uses moonclips. Yeah, I leave them loaded.

My guns which take magazines - yeah I leave some of them loaded too.

Caliper_RWVA
April 13, 2010, 09:58 PM
I'd bet the farm, that if you took a new car and didn't drive it at all but left it sit (experiment) for say 20 years, that ground clearance would not be as high as when new. :scrutiny:

I've got a 1970 Cadillac. When I removed the original springs two years ago (to put in stiffer, lower ones :evil: ) the ride height was well within the factory spec (yes I have the manual)

Used to own a '54 Bel Air. Didn't have ride height specs for it, but it sure wasn't riding low. Plenty high, and plenty of space to the bump stops.

Zerodefect
April 13, 2010, 11:29 PM
I was thinking of 1911 and AR15 mags. Thats alot of force on those feed lips when their loaded. Cheaper mags seem to deform eventually.

I use Pmags for the Ar to solve the problem and Tripp Cobramags to solve the 1911 problem.

It's not that I'm worried about feedlip stress, but it's something to keep an eye out for.

ross1
April 14, 2010, 05:08 PM
Ok than.....What is the natural state of the spring? Uncompressed correct so according to your own explanation, when the spring is compressed the molecules change correct? Now if the spring stays this way and the molecules are not allowed to return to there natural state, they are static but in their unnatural state correct? I'm not following how this could make no difference in the life of the spring. :confused:



I believe this is what I'm saying.....It depends on the quality of the particular spring in question.



I'd bet the farm, that if you took a new car and didn't drive it at all but left it sit (experiment) for say 20 years, that ground clearance would not be as high as when new. :scrutiny:
I'd bet the farm, that if you took a new car and didn't drive it at all but left it sit (experiment) for say 20 years, that ground clearance would not be as high as when new.

I guarantee that you are correct, but more because the air leaked out of the tires, not the springs sagging.(test conducted on 1989 Supra sitting in my driveway since 2005 due to blown HG)

swinokur
April 14, 2010, 05:13 PM
I know the new thing is to believe leaving them fully loaded doesn't ruin/weaken the springs. I'm not really buying that logic. I've seen far too many used pistols sold by little old ladies, with full mags, that had shot springs. Their husband died 10 plus years ago and she finally decides to sell his gun but never would touch it, to unload the mags.

IMO.....Spring steel will develop memory if compressed continuously for too long.

I'm sure some will say I'm crazy but the poof is in the puddin

Guess the springs in my car are worn out then. They have been compressed for 9 years.

Average Joe
April 14, 2010, 05:15 PM
All my clips are loaded, mags too !

nalioth
April 14, 2010, 05:37 PM
I've seen far too many used pistols sold by little old ladies, with full mags, that had shot springs. Jennings and Jimenez and other pot-metal saturday-night-specials are worth every penny paid for them.

I should think we're discussing quality springs (from quality guns) in this thread.

Fastcast
April 15, 2010, 08:52 AM
Gentlemen, like I said early, you do as you please. Here's (below) what Wolff Spring has to say on the subject of keeping mags fully loaded. I'd think they know just a little bit more about springs than the so called experts here.

I'm sure though, that the canned response from all THR experts will be: Of course Wolff would say this, they sell springs and want your mags to wear out quicker by rotating/unloading them occasionally. :rolleyes: ...... You can bet Wolff doesn't need to make up BS to sell enough springs to keep their business lucrative.


How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds?

Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.

Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not the always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring.

More recently higher capacity magazine have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical.

In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded at all times, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs. Regular shooting of the pistol is the best way to be sure the springs are still functioning reliably.

CWL
April 15, 2010, 01:11 PM
Gentlemen, like I said early, you do as you please. Here's (below) what Wolff Spring has to say on the subject of keeping mags fully loaded. I'd think they know just a little bit more about springs than the so called experts here.

Fastcast,
Aren't you the guy who already "bet the farm" on a wrong assumption?

I suggest that you stop making claims based on hearsay and assumptions, unless you have personal experience to share about spring fatigue (preferably gathered over decades, and across multiple firearms & calibers).

Fastcast
April 15, 2010, 02:01 PM
Fastcast,
Aren't you the guy who already "bet the farm" on a wrong assumption?

I suggest that you stop making claims based on hearsay and assumptions, unless you have personal experience to share about spring fatigue (preferably gathered over decades, and across multiple firearms & calibers).

What wrong assumption smart guy?.....I see no undeniable proof that what I said is incorrect and I stand by my statement. I believe the springs would still be fatigued and have some sag, may be minimal but measurable.

Lets use this for an example, as compared to the longterm, fully loaded mag: Take a truck and load the bed full of stone, now leave that truck sit without moving for say 15 years and you're telling me there will be no spring fatigue, therefore no sag and those springs are going to pop right back and be factory fresh. LOL

You don't have to believe a thing I say but apparently Wolff's experience and expertise in springs means nothing to you internet commandos . :rolleyes:

Sniper X
April 15, 2010, 02:38 PM
The spring steel in a truck and the load rate and type and the way they work are totally different than those exerted in a firearm magazine. You can't compare the two. On that note....I have been shooting and have owned 1911s since about 1975, I always leave my mags loaded to capacity and they have never failed or even had any noticeable change in any way nor have any of my AR mags which I have also owned and used since 1978.

Fiv3r
April 15, 2010, 04:34 PM
Wait, so Wolff (who sells mag springs) says that mag springs can wear out and that I should periodically buy new mag springs (which they sell) to guard against it?

No way:neener:

Seriously, who keeps their mags loaded all THAT long? I take mine to the range and unload them into some targets at least every few weeks. My 50+ year old CZ-52 is feeding just fine. I keep both mags loaded always. Same with my Glock. Same with my P-64. I would say the only spring that is a lil iffy is the spring in my old 870. Might replace that one sooner than later, but she still feeds just fine:)

benEzra
April 15, 2010, 06:42 PM
I know the new thing is to believe leaving them fully loaded doesn't ruin/weaken the springs. I'm not really buying that logic. I've seen far too many used pistols sold by little old ladies, with full mags, that had shot springs. Their husband died 10 plus years ago and she finally decides to sell his gun but never would touch it, to unload the mags.
I'd suspect corrosion as the culprit there. Rust will weaken a spring, but static compression well under the elastic limit shouldn't.

Speaking of car springs, I know from personal experience that (1) corrosion will dramatically weaken leaf springs, (2) springs that aren't significantly rusted don't weaken appreciably over decades, and (3) automatic load-leveling air suspensions fail quicker and more dramatically than any spring....

Manco
April 15, 2010, 07:10 PM
Wait, so Wolff (who sells mag springs) says that mag springs can wear out and that I should periodically buy new mag springs (which they sell) to guard against it?

No way:neener:

Ah, somebody who understands and appreciates the concepts of motive and caveat emptor. ;)

Seriously, who keeps their mags loaded all THAT long?

I keep my home defense magazines loaded for months on end because they're dedicated to the task while other magazines are used for practice at the range (or dry-fire exercises at home). I do test them every so often, but I have no reason to suspect that they won't be reliable.

Hatterasguy
April 15, 2010, 07:59 PM
IMHO this is a non issue with SD mags since you really should shoot them off at least a couple times a year. I mean who loads up a couple SD mags with hollow points for a decade and never shoots them? If so your training is lacking to say the least.


I'm new to the 1911 so I don't know how durable the mags are, although I suspect you have to try to hurt them. I have a ton of experiance with Pmags though and with them you really have to try hard to make one malfunction. Like leave it outside in the dirt for 6 months loaded with steel case ammo or something...

mljdeckard
April 15, 2010, 08:19 PM
Is there something other than ammo I should load them with?

Long-term compression doesn't hurt springs.

Manco
April 15, 2010, 08:51 PM
IMHO this is a non issue with SD mags since you really should shoot them off at least a couple times a year. I mean who loads up a couple SD mags with hollow points for a decade and never shoots them? If so your training is lacking to say the least.

Just to be clear, I meant months not years between using, cleaning, and inspecting self-defense magazines, even though in theory one could go a lot longer (decades, even).

Deaf Smith
April 15, 2010, 09:38 PM
Sure I leave my clips loaded. M1 Garand as well as '03 Springfield strippers.

Oh, you mean magazines? Yea, I leave them loaded to.

CWL
April 16, 2010, 01:22 PM
Fastcast,
Some come here to learn, some to teach and share.

Others come here to troll...

Fastcast
April 16, 2010, 04:16 PM
Fastcast,
Some come here to learn, some to teach and share.

Others come here to troll...

Excuse me :rolleyes: ....... Who has posted information from legitimate sources? ME

What have you included, of any substance, to this discussion, other than to criticizes my opinion and now me personally?

Trolls start stupid threads to get everyone riled up. I didn't start this thread so how am I a troll? I offered my opinion on this topic that's all and you come in guns ah blazing. :cuss: ........ Practice what you preach, almighty one!

nalioth
April 16, 2010, 05:58 PM
#1 It is a fact that springs (of all types) wear out through usage, than from their static condition.

#2 It is a fact that sales people will tell you what they want you to hear, to make you more likely to buy their product even though you have been to school and are aware of #1

JDGray
April 16, 2010, 07:22 PM
My clip has been loaded since WWII:D This is not a speed loader, well kinda is.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b278/JDG357/IMG_0185.jpg

WardenWolf
April 16, 2010, 07:27 PM
It depends on whether I can get replacement springs or magazines easily. I'm a bit hesitant to leave my PSL's magazines loaded for this reason. However, I have zero issues with keeping an easily fixable or replaceable magazine loaded. That's how I view it: springs are cheap. Life is expensive. A gun is useless if not loaded.

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