[Jmurman]

Its been a LONG 6 weeks, but my Service Grade Garand arrived today.

This is going to be a fun relationship!

Ok, so the stock is really dinged and dented...and mismatched. I will repave the wood eventually, but in the meantime, I will try to srip all the crap off of it and refinish it.

Any suggestions on this?

I ordered a ammo can w/enbloc of Korean from Ammo man...its not much only about 300+ rounds, but it is a start. I received my cleaning suppplies from Brownells so I'm good to go there.


Any suggestions on getting started with the Garand, would a field strip be in order here?

[Chipperman]

Congrats! Strip that baby down and get to know her. ;)

[Steve in PA]

Congrats o your M1......you'll love it.

When I got my SA/SG I field stripped the rifle......., the internals were very clean and oiled......I just dried and re-oiled. Punched the bore, greased it with Lubriplate. I cleaned the stock with Murphy's Oil Soap......which was not in that bad of shape. Did have a couple of dings......but I accepted that as beauty marks. A couple of coats of Tung Oil and the stock looked great.

It shoots very good to. Quite well for a 60 year old rifle that who kows what its been through.

Prepare to buy lots of ammo......or do what I do.......reload. And buy lots of clips!!!!

[Swampy]

jmurman,

What they said.......

Also, the Korean M2 ball ammo that comes on clips is corrosive......

Check the headstamp. If it's "KA", then it's corrosive no matter WHAT the seller told you.

Usually the boxed M2 with the "PS" headstamp is non-corrosive.

No problem either way..... most likely thousands of rounds of corrosive have been fired through your rifle already... you just have to make sure to break it down and clean it THOROUGHLY after firing... just like the GI's in WWII and Korea did it.

Congrats on the new M1.

Swampy

Garands forever

[foghornl]

Good luck, good shooting, best wishes.


Now, find some of that late 80's & 90's made Danish BallM2 ammo, and blaze away.

Soon, you will know the 'Song of The Garand'

Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam! Blam-Ping!

[DMK]

Congratulations on your new service rifle! I absolutely love my Garand.

One thing that I've made it a habit to do with all used semi-autos I buy is replace all the springs. As a matter of fact, my CMP Service grade M1 double fired occasionally when I first got it. A new Wolf spring kit fixed it.

http://www.gunsprings.com/RifleShotgun/Garand_RsNF.html

RIFLE SERVICE PAK - contains 1 each ejector spring, extractor spring, extra power hammer spring and extra power recoil spring.
Stock No. 18060.....$ 25.99

[RustyHammer]

What Swampy said:

KA = Corrosive, most often found in bandoleers and enblocs. Make sure you clean it well immediately after shooting.

PS = Non-corrosive ... usually found in boxes and not enblocs.

Garands are addicting!

Lock and load,

/Rusty

[Steve in PA]

I recommend you NOT buy the extra power op rod springs. I have heard that they tend to cause more problems than anything.

The best ones I've heard of are the stainless steel springs from Orion 7.

http://www.m1garand.com/news.htm

"M1 Rifle Operating Rod Springs We went back to the original Springfield Armory drawings to duplicate the original spring with one exception. Our new springs are manufactured from the highest quality 17-7 STAINLESS STEEL wire available in the industry. We now can offer what we believe is the finest main spring ever made for the M1 Rifle! These springs are manufactured exclusively for Orion 7 Enterprises Inc. right here in the USA on state of the art machinery. Samples were tested and the computer projected continuous cycle readings recorded were off the scale! These springs will not weaken! We are so confident that you will agree with us that these are the best M1 rifle main springs made, we will offer you a * free lifetime replacement guarantee if our spring ever fails or wears out. No questions asked! 6.00 each Gunsmiths, gun shops, gun show dealers, and M1 hobbyists, please call for your special pricing on this item in larger quantities"

[Jmurman]

ok, so where can I get "Lubriplate"? One of the guys had mentioned wheel bearing grease too, with this work?

I will wait on the spring kit until after I take it to the range.

These guns are beautiful. When I opened it up from the box, I found myself asking it...."so, just where have you been?"

[Steve in PA]

You can get Lubriplate from Brownells.....which is where I got mine.

[VG]

Sir you can get Lubriplate 130A from most bearing supply stores, but there is no reason particular reason to. Any light automotive grease will work, as well as the little Plastilube tubs. I most often use Tetra Gun Grease because it's readily available at just about any gun shop and even WalMart. While it costs more, the plastic tube makes it easier to apply so you don't waste any. If when you shoot your Garand the rounds are ejecting in the 1 to 3 oclock range, you're recoil spring and lube job are fine.

You should probably start on the wood with something mild and see how it cleans up. If you are going to refinish I often use Minwax Antique Finish Restorer and rub it on with 0000 steel wool (and gloves).

The easiest finish is probably one of the commercial Tung Oil Finishes. They are a mixture of solvents, Tung Oil (usually), and driers, so it's easy to apply and probably somewhat more durable than Boiled Linseed Oil, or BLO. On a repro stock set I used Tru Oil, but iit's very shiny unless you knock down the gloss, although more durable. Minwax is carried by HD, but Formbys, Danish Oil, and other brands work well also.

You can see detailed disassembly instructions at: http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/.
You can also read CMP's treatise on stock wood at: http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/wood_cleaning_article.htm

If you are ordering a new recoil spring, first take a look at the pins on your trigger guard. If they are worn, you won't get a tight stock lockup, which affects accuracy. Orion 7 has new stamped guards available.

[jrhead75]

Congrats on the new family member! I was recently narrowly outbid for a WWII Winchester Garand on Auction Arms. Had to drown my sorrows by getting another Enfield.

Garands are a work of art, and I will have one soon!

If only they could all talk.

[DMK]

I recommend you NOT buy the extra power op rod springs. I have heard that they tend to cause more problems than anything. What kind of problems? Ever since I put the springs in mine, it was rock solid reliable.

[VG]

quote:I recommend you NOT buy the extra power op rod springs. I have heard that they tend to cause more problems than anything.

What kind of problems? Ever since I put the springs in mine, it was rock solid reliable.

Dave

I spoke with Wolff Tech Support earlier this week. Some op rods have binding problems. They will soon be introducing a regular power spring for the Garand as well.

[Houndawg]

If you use tung oil I would avoind Formby's and Minwax. These are nothing more than rubbing varnishes with very little to miniscule amounts of actual tung oil in them. Pure tung oil will take forever to dry. For most of my stock refinishing projects I've used the Behr #600 Scandinavian Tung Oil Finish available from Home Depot or directly from Behr. It contains a mixture of tung oil, boiled linseed oil, wax, and solvents to accelerate drying. It has the protective qualities of the tung oil, and the warmth of the boiled linseed oil. I first heard about it from a wood guru on another gun forum and have had really good results with it.

[Jmurman]

My ammo arrived yesterday. I received three boxes, in two were cigars that I had ordered, went to pick up the third, and about dropped a nut!

Ammoman ships very fast, I am really impressed with their service. I bought this after reading your post on corrosive ammo. So, I'll just have to buy more....:-)

I am hoping to strip my Garand...I feel like maybe giving this rifle a name...and work on stripping the crap off of the stock. The markings that normally are on the inside grip must be covered up, so maybe I can see whats there after I'm finished.

Hey...by the way...Happy Thanksgiving!

[Steve in PA]

Happy Thanksgiving :)

[Nando Aqui]

Jmurman -

I suggest you visit Swampy's site. The entire site is interesting, and make sure to look at [How to Refinish the Wood on an M1 Garand - From "Ugly Duckling" to "Swan".........]

http://www.swampworks.com/SwampysStuff-Home.html

Alex
================================
:) :) Happy Thanksgiving Everyone! :) :)
================================

[DMK]

I spoke with Wolff Tech Support earlier this week. Some op rods have binding problems. They will soon be introducing a regular power spring for the Garand as well. That's interesting. Thanks for the info VG.

[Jmurman]

ok, so I have the rifle taken down. The stock and receiver/barrle group are seperate. I was alittle intimidated at first, but I would take a piece off and themn put it back to make sure that I could. The book supplied with the M1 is good.

However, there is nothing about taking the rear hand guard and front hand guard off of the barrel so I can refinish them. It looks like I might need a special tool, like a large ring pliers for the clip holding the rear hand guard.

Any thoughts?

[Steve in PA]

Go to www.fulton-armory.com and click on Garand info......scroll down to the How To Guide and scroll down once again to the sections you want. I've downloaded and printed all of the info and keep it in a binder.

You do not need a special tool to remove the rear handguard from the Garand.....but removing the metal clip from the handguard can be tricky.

[Jmurman]

OK, I think I've got a pretty good grip on what I need to do.

I do have a couple of questiosn that you might be able to help me out with.

1. In order to remove the front hand grip, I need to remove the gas cylinder. The CMP book says to take a block of wood and smack it with a hammer, driving it off. I NEVER like to hit any gun with a hammer, but if ths is how its done....should I use any penetrating fluid before I do this? Is the gas cylinder pressed on? How hard is it to remove?

2. After I get the first grip off then I take and drive the pin out of the holder for the other hand grip, right? Now, this hand grip has a metal band around it, do I remove this band before I put it in the "dish-washer"?

3. After this is all done and my Garand looks like Swampys...should I wear a bib (drooling) when I take it out of the case? :-)

[Houndawg]

I don't own a Garand yet, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.:rolleyes:

The gas cylinder is screwed onto the barrel. Once you unscrew the plug and remove the lock, the cylinder should unscrew. Sometimes they're on kinda tight. They make wrenches just for this purpose, but a smack with a block of wood and a hammer forcing the cylinder counterclockwise (viewed from the muzzle) should loosen it enough to turn it with your hand.

[Swampy]

Houndog wrote:

The gas cylinder is screwed onto the barrel. Once you unscrew the plug and remove the lock, the cylinder should unscrew. Sometimes they're on kinda tight. They make wrenches just for this purpose, but a smack with a block of wood and a hammer forcing the cylinder counterclockwise (viewed from the muzzle) should loosen it enough to turn it with your hand..

Uh... Scuze' me.... but NO WAY Dude... the gas cylinder is indexed to the barrel with splines, NOT threads.

To remove the Gas Cylinder:

1) Unscrew the lock screw, which is threaded into the end of the gas cylinder tube.

2) Unscrew the gas cylinder lock (the figure "8" piece) which is threaded to the end of the barrel.

3) Remove the gas cylinder by sliding it STRAIGHT FORWARD. If it needs help, use a block of wood and a mallet as described by the CMP.

Best regards,
swampy

[Swampy]

jmurman asked,

1. In order to remove the front hand grip, I need to remove the gas cylinder. The CMP book says to take a block of wood and smack it with a hammer, driving it off. I NEVER like to hit any gun with a hammer, but if ths is how its done....should I use any penetrating fluid before I do this? Is the gas cylinder pressed on? How hard is it to remove?

Penetrating oil should not be necessary. The GC is not pressed on, but some do fit tighter than others. In most cases they will slide off with just a couple of taps to the back side of the sight base.

2. After I get the first grip off then I take and drive the pin out of the holder for the other hand grip, right? Now, this hand grip has a metal band around it, do I remove this band before I put it in the "dish-washer"?

After the GC and the front handguard is off, drive the cross pin out of the lower band and slide it forward. It too may take a few taps with a block of wood and mallet if it's stuck tight. Most likely not.

When the lower band is off the barrel the rear handguard can be slid forward an inch or two and it will pull straight up as the clip edges come out of the engagement detents in the sides of the barrel. It is not necessary to remove the metal piece from the handguards to wash them. If you SAND them after washing, cover them with masking tape to protect the metal finish from the sandpaper.

3. After this is all done and my Garand looks like Swampys...should I wear a bib (drooling) when I take it out of the case? :-)

Advice: grow a beard.... the drool gets absorbed. Problem solved.

Best regards to all,
Swampy

Garands forever

[Houndawg]

Swampy,

Okay. I got some parts mixed up.

[Jmurman]

Swampy,

That SG Garand that you redid on your web site looks IDENTICAL to mine. Same colorations, oily cosmoline look. When I got to the end of your page and saw the finished product....WOW!!!

I REALLY appreciate your help!

[Swampy]

jmurman,

The stock on that "show & tell" page is probably the single worst set of wood I've received from the CMP, or even seen on any M1 for that matter. It was pretty sad. It only goes to show that with a little work even the worst can be made acceptable.

BTW, I just looked over my web pages and made a couple changes. Take particular note of "Ugly Duckling to Swan - Part Deux". Down at the very bottom I added some notes regarding the use of dye & stain that will make a big difference in how wood turns out.

See... even I'm still learning.... :D

Also BTW... I just this week took time to re-finish a couple of the Mossy US-44 .22 rifles I've had for the last couple years..... One is your basic straight grain birch, the other is a full blown tiger stripe...... Gave them both the Dishwasher treatment, Fiebings leather dye, and Tung Oil.

YOWZA !!!! I've always been a little intrigued by birch stocks, but I'm REALLY interested in what I can do with them now..... These are PURDY :D

Maybe next week I'll post a new page to the site showing the Mossy .22's.....

Maybe in the near future I can get to that gorgeous tiger striped birch M1 buttstock I came across a couple months back and do the same to it.

BTW, for those interested.... go to: www.swampworks.com/SwampysStuff-Home.html

Best regards to all,
Swampy

[Jmurman]

quick question. After you put the stock in the dishwaasher, and set it on Pots and Pans...you take it out before the drying cycle starts, right? How long after that do you wait for it to dry out so you can finish it?

[Swampy]

jmurman,

I leave it in the DW till it shuts off.... I figure a little extra time in the "sauna" might help in pulling out more of the dings & dents.

BUT I've made sure that I've turned the "Heat Dry" to the OFF position before it starts washing. Excess dry heat could cause the wood to split after it's absorbed water & moisture.

I usually wait overnight before I start sanding (if necessary), or the dye-stain process.

Best,
Swampy

[Publicola]

Mineral spirits will work for stripping the oil out of a stock - that's if you want to invest the time in it. There's another way that's easier & gets results just as good if not better.

Easy Off.

Buy a can or two of the stuff. Then take your wood & heat it gently. (a few hours in the sun or 10-20 minutes in a 200 degree oven). Spray on the Easy Off & let it soak for a minute, then wipe it off with paper towels. Repeat this 1 or 2 more times, then hose down the wood with water. If there are some stubborn spots, repeat the heating/spraying/wiping process until it's as clean as you want. For really stubborn spots let the Easy Off soak for 10-20 minutes or so, then wipe & rinse.

That should get all the oil/comsoline out of the stock. I've never used the dishwasher method before but it seems like it'd be a good idea. Not so much for getting the oils out of the stock as the Easy Off should do that most effeciently, but for raising dents & dings.

For finishing I just wanted a stock that was impervious to weather, so I rubbed in a few coats of boiled linseed oil, very, very lightly sanding between coats & then brushed on some marine polyeurathane. when the poly was dry I lightly buffed it with some 0000 steel wool & a nylon scrub pad (balled up panty hose works well if ya have 'em & your better half won't miss 'em). After the linseed oil but before the poly, I used some wood putty to smooth out some dings & some model paint to make it match (kinda). It's not the best looking stock because of the wood putty/paint thing, but it's durable & shouldn't be affected too much by changes in humidity.

Course if I had it to do over again I might use the dishwasher treatment after the Easy Off to make it a really good looking stock. As it is though I knew I'd replace the wood before I got the rifle so I didn't care too much about the stocks looks.

One thing about surplus stocks: the trigger guard locks the action in the stock by pressure it applies to the floorplate of the trigger housing. This is necessary for a good shooting garand. The more pressure it can exert, the easier it'll be to make the rifle accurate. But if the stock is compressed from years or decades of the oil-soaked wood having pressure on it, it won't be able to lock up as good as it could & accuracy won't be as good as it can be. So a new stock is a fairly cheap way (assuming it's decent quality) to improve accuracy. Hence the surplus stocks are fine for garands meant for casual plinking & huting, but any serious hunter or competitor should have new wood to work with in getting the garand to be as accurate as possible.

[Houndawg]

Now Easy Off I do know about. DO NOT USE IT!!! Easy Off contains lye which will penetrate the fibers, attack the cellulose, break down the wood, and end up damaging the stock permanently. It may work to get the stock clean, but in the long run isn't worth it. Leave the Easy Off for the oven and use kinder and gentler methods to clean your stock.

[larryw]

I know several people who use and swear by oven cleaner. But I share Houndawg's concerns and choose a different route. I start with a generous dose of brake cleaner/acetone to get the majority of the nastyness out of the wood. Then into the diswasher (while wife is away for day ;) ). Let dry at least a day and then follow with a mineral spirits rubdown to get all the soap and residue off the surface.

Those dings that remain can be steamed out with an iron. Wet a paper towel, place over the ding to saturate wood, heat with the hot iron and repeat until the ding is gone. I like to heat the wood through the paper towel, never touching the wood with the iron, but others take the direct iron to wood approach.

Sand stock, then wet to raise grain that was rolled over during sanding, and give a good rubbing with 00 steel wool. Smooth as a baby's behind.

I've tried BLO, but prefer Linspeed Oil (http://www.huntamerica.com/linspeed/). Lasts longer, protects the wood better and gives a nice deep, satin finish. A friend prefers satin finish Deft, which looks absolutely great but I'm not convinced about the durability.

[Swampy]

Many users have also reported that the Easy Off treatment will sometimes turn the wood a really putrid green color. This usually never shows up until a few days-weeks after the final finish is on. Must be something to do with the lye content.

Best to all,
Swampy

[Nando Aqui]

Swampy,

In my limited experience at finishing gunstocks, I have tried only Casey's True-Oil (fine if you like the luster) and BLO. I have used numerous other finishes (varnishes, laquers, etc.) but for cabinet and furniture.

It appears that you have tried a number of finishing oils on your gunstocks.
If I may ask: Which is your favorite?

Thanks!

Alex

[Swampy]

Nando Aqui asks:

It appears that you have tried a number of finishing oils on your gunstocks. If I may ask: Which is your favorite?

It depends on the desired end result....

For the traditional GI type look and finish I'm definitely becoming partial to Tung Oil (either pure Tung or the Minwax Tung Oil Finish) with BLO and the Fiebings Leather dyes as the undercoatings. The pure Tung does take longer between coats because it's natural and has no added dryers. You have to let it dry overnight and sometimes longer between coats. Patience is a virtue with pure Tung. The Minwax Tung Oil finish has dryer additives and will cure out much quicker.

If you want a more waterproof type finish, say for a hunting rifle or a Match Rifle, then either B-C Tru-Oil, or a good spray on Polyurethane varnish.

I've tried other type finishes... but these are the ones I keep coming back to.

*****
Application process:

For the initial BLO treatments I use a 2" camels hair brush to paint it on (thinned 50-50 with Mineral Spirits), then immediately wipe it down with paper towels.... let dry, then repeat as desired after 3-4 hours. When finished let dry overnight at minimum.

I apply the Fiebings leather dye with the little "fuzz ball on a stick" applicators they sell at the leather shop, then immediately wipe down with paper towels to prevent over-dying. Add additional coatings if desired.

The first coat or two of Tung will be brushed on and wiped off same as the BLO. As the finish begins to build up, about the 3rd or 4th coating, I'll switch from brush to applying it with my fingers. I dip 2-3 fingertips in the Tung (just a FEW drops!!!) and start rubbing it into the wood. Keep rubbing and spreading, or "stretching" the oil until it starts to feel dry or tacky, then dip more oil and keep working your way along the wood.

After abut the second coat of "stretched" Tung is dry, rub it down COMPLETELY with 0000 grade steel wool. When I say COMPLETELY, I mean that you will see the surface of the Tung start to "gray up" with the initial stripping action of the steel wool, then as you add more elbow grease you will see it start to develop a sheen. This is the effect you want over all the wood..... Get those elbows moving and bear down.... :)

Once this is done you'll have a stock that will be all you expect of a nice GI looking piece of hardwood. Protected from the elements with a sheen (not shiny) that just says "NICE WOOD"... all the way around.

Hope it works for you....

best to all,
Swampy

Garands forever

[Nando Aqui]

Swampy -

(1) Thanks!

(2) For new, rather plainly finished stocks such as the new SA M1A walnut stocks and Boyd M1 stocks, is it OK to just apply the B-C True Oil (for the M1A) or the Minwax Tung Oil Finish (for the M1 Garand) over the existing finish?
You see, since the wood looks rather bare (both instances), I can't tell if there is any finish other than stain. I'm afraid that any sanding (they are very smooth already anyway) may take some of the stain off, as from edges and corners.

Thanks again,

Alex

[Swampy]

Nando Aqui,

1) Welcome

2) I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that Boyd's finished M1 stocks (BTW, your M1-A stock is also Boyd's) are all finished without stain, and just a BLO dip as a finish..... Anyway, I'm pretty sure that's how the ones I've seen are done. My own M1-A (vintage late '98) has a Boyd's stock with BLO finish, unstained.

The "bare look" to the Boyd's stocks is typical of a plain BLO finish. If you are diligent and want to spend the time you can repeatedly apply BLO to a stock until the wood becomes fully saturated, then buff it down to a light sheen, but unfortunately, even this treatment does not make wood nearly as waterproof as other finishes, i.e. Tung Oil, Tru-Oil, or Polyurethane. If you like a GI appearance but still want the best protection you can give the wood, definitely go with the Tung. Tru-Oil and Poly are very protective finishes, but you just can't easily make them look like the GI wood.

BTW, supposedly the old barracks saw about new stock treatment with BLO goes like this.... "Once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, once a year for the rest of your hitch".

Tung Oil is much more durable and does not require nearly as much successive applications. If the history gurus on M1's are correct, BLO is not actually the US Army's preferred stock treatment anyway... We only went to it early in WWII because the Asian supply sources of Tung were cut off by Japanese expansion. BLO was the best alternative at the time. After the war we went back to Tung Oil as the factory stock finish.

Re the B-C Tru-Oil.... not sure if it will go over BLO or not. I'm guessing that it will. You might have to try it on a spot inside the foreend to see if it applies evenly, beads up, or "fisheyes" on you. If it looks OK, the go for it.

Re Tung Oil.... a big YES on putting it over top of BLO.

More rambling from the Swampster..... ;)

Best to all,
Swampy

[Jmurman]

I stripped my Garand down to the bones on Friday. Took your advice Swampy and stripped it then did the dishwasher thing. I must say that without seeing the pics you took of yours in the dishwasher, I would'nt have done that. I am amazed at what the difference is!

Yesterday I put two coats of Formbys Tung oil on and it soaked it right up. I will say that I didn't get the High Gloss Tung oil, but the Low Gloss version. I am thinking now that I will put a couple more coats on, until the wood starts getting filled up and then Varathane it.

I did find one small crack in the hand guard, which I fixed with a good wood glue, then lightly sanded.

I am going to try to post a pic of the "before" and after when it gets done.

Also, I have two different woods on this rifle. The hand guard is Birch. In time I will try to find a walnut handguard.

[Jmurman]

Here is my attempt at posting a pic.

[Jmurman]

About grease for the Garand. I went to my Parts dept today and got a 1lb tub of Castrol Lithium wheel bearing grease. Will this work on the Garand? Do I realy need Lubriplate?

By the way. When I was stripping the wood of the cosmoline, I noticed that there was a piece of tape on the underside of the grip portion of the stock. This tape is ancient! After scraping it off...it wouldn't come off with stripper...I see that the numbers 41 are stamped into the wood. What do these numbers mean, if anything?