gun safety message after 24


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Ridgeway
November 25, 2003, 11:00 PM
For those whom missed it, following tonights episode of 24, was a gun safety message, delievered by keifer sutherland- essentially sayng despite guns being used in the show always keep guns locked and unloaded...interesting...not quite sure what to make of it one way or another...

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Mark Tyson
November 25, 2003, 11:03 PM
What good is an unloaded gun?

But then again, this does not sound as bad as some of the crap I would expect from Hollywood. Maybe they realize that a lot of people own guns and are not willing to part with them.

Devonai
November 25, 2003, 11:04 PM
The site that sponsored this message is Americans for Gun Safety, founded by Monster.com's Andrew McKelvey. They bill themselves as a "moderate," "non-partisan" group for "sensible" gun control laws. In other words, they're just as bad as any other gun control group. This seriously ticks me off as 24 was, up until this point, one of my favorite shows.

:cuss:

Harry Tuttle
November 25, 2003, 11:09 PM
whats odd is Kiefer said
"please contact the organization shown on your screen for more information"

maybe next week it will be the NRA

but i kinda doubt that

Mark Tyson
November 25, 2003, 11:10 PM
The NRA and the other pro gun groups have done more to promote gun safety than all these gun control advocates ever have.

El Tejon
November 25, 2003, 11:11 PM
Are we to unload and lock up our fire extinguishers as well.:rolleyes:

A Hollywierd star, living in a gated community with armed guards and armed body guards, telling you uneducated serfs how to live? Imagine that?:rolleyes:

Cawdor
November 25, 2003, 11:15 PM
Since the episode involved Russian roulette, it may have just been a CYA.

MAKOwner
November 26, 2003, 02:20 AM
Yeah, it was because of the roulette stuff, none of the other episodes have had that. Just an attempt to have a "responsible" message about guns after a big roulette scene...

Gordon Fink
November 26, 2003, 03:04 AM
Yeah, but Mark Tyson is right, which is why that PSA was so irritating.

~G. Fink

winstonsmith
November 26, 2003, 04:20 AM
Definitely a CYA. And don't blame Keifer, he just says what they tell him to say :rolleyes: :uhoh:

Billmanweh
November 26, 2003, 10:41 AM
I'm not sure I see how this site is anti-gun.

"Guns are an important part of life in America."

"As Americans, we know that we can do more to promote gun safety and respect the rights of gun owners.

The Americans for Gun Safety Foundation is a not-for-profit organization that supports the rights of Americans who own firearms for sport, protection, and collection.

AGS Foundation is committed to educating Americans about gun rights and responsibilities—including responsible gun ownership, existing gun laws, and new policy options to help keep guns out of the hands of criminals and children."

sounds reasonable to me...

Ebbtide
November 26, 2003, 11:19 AM
I may not have heard it correctly, but I thought it was "always keep your firearms safely stored and locked", not "unloaded".

If anything, I thought the PSA was as Pro-Gun as you can get for network TV (but this if FOX, eh). It seemed to be an appropriate message, IMO.

Andrew Rothman
November 26, 2003, 11:45 AM
I'm not sure I see how this site is anti-gun.
Please see you opthamologist right away!

From the site: (http://ww2.americansforgunsafety.com/the_issues.asp)

the gun show loophole

Federal law requires background checks for all firearms sales at gun stores. But a loophole allows criminals, illegal aliens and even terrorists to walk into a gun show and purchase a gun without ever undergoing a background check. That means no ID, no questions asked. A bill sponsored by Senators McCain, Reed, DeWine and Lieberman would close this dangerous loophole.

The criminal background check system is our first line of defense against criminals purchasing guns, and yet in most states the background check system is seriously flawed. AGS has proposed several measures to fix this system.

Americans for Gun Safety Foundation Applauds Wal-Mart Move to Suspend Firearm Sales in California

...Now Wal-Mart has taken another positive step, suspending firearm sales in California....

Oh, they are anti-gun all right.

Billmanweh
November 26, 2003, 11:54 AM
I see it as being almost completely unbiased

if wal-mart can't comply with the appropriate state and federal gun laws, I agree that they need to take a break from selling firearms until they pull their heads out of their asses. how does it help the pro-gun cause for wal-mart to sell guns to people who can't pass a background check?


"Wal-Mart's corporate leadership once again is leading the way on responsible gun sales. Last year, Americans for Gun Safety Foundation (AGSF) asked Wal-Mart to agree not to transfer firearms to potential buyers until background checks are fully completed, despite the law that allows such transfers after three business days in most states. When we told Wal-Mart that they could inadvertently be arming criminals by making such transfers, they agreed to adopt the AGSF policy of "don't know, don't sell" - in other words, Wal-Mart will no longer transfer a gun until they receive notice from law enforcement that the buyer is approved. This was responsible gun sale policy at its finest."

"Now Wal-Mart has taken another positive step, suspending firearm sales in California, after being informed by Attorney General Bill Lockyer that his department had found numerous violations of state law in the way Wal-Mart employees were handling gun sales. We hope Wal-Mart is soon able to right itself and resume firearm sales in California in a manner fully consistent with state law. And we hope that other licensed gun sellers follow Wal-Mart's lead, by adopting the AGSF "don't know/don't sell" policy and by responding quickly and responsibly to demands from state and federal regulators to come into compliance with the laws regulating the sale of firearms."


again, what are we disagreeing with?

Gunner45
November 26, 2003, 12:16 PM
Yea, when I saw that, little red flags strarted to wave. It just didn't taste right.

Gunner45

anapex
November 26, 2003, 12:36 PM
I was pretty ticked when I saw this(24 is a favorite of mine) but after talking with my wife we agreed it probably was because of the roullete scene. Neither the previous shows in this season or the first two seasons had anything like this.

peashooter
November 26, 2003, 12:39 PM
At first I was "what the f---!" , but then after the scenes in the show, I didn't mind too much.
They do sling a lot of lead on 24. Still the best drama going .......for now.

NJ3
November 26, 2003, 12:52 PM
They also aired the "Viewer Discretion" message after every commercial break of last nights 24, something I don't recall seeing during other episodes. (I could be wrong) Maybe the Fox executives considered this particular 24 episode to be more "intense" than other episodes. I believe it was all just CYA.

Oracle
November 26, 2003, 12:53 PM
Kiefer Sutherland is a libertarian and is known to support gun rights. I seriously doubt this was anything other than a CYA by the network.

Andrew Rothman
November 26, 2003, 01:04 PM
again, what are we disagreeing with?

This group wants Wal Mart to EXCEED the legal requirements for CA.

There is a reason that after 3 days of no answer, it is presumed BY LAW to be "yes." It is to keep the feds from imposing unreasonable delays.

By demanding that the stores wait for an explicit "yes," they allow the feds to fiddle around while depriving the purchaser of his legal right to buy a gun.

45R
November 26, 2003, 01:17 PM
CYA.

Skunkabilly
November 26, 2003, 01:24 PM
Locked and unloaded = engage the safety on that 1911 and don't unload until you have proper sight alignment :D

glocksman
November 26, 2003, 01:49 PM
You want proof of AGS's bias?

Try this on:
While we oppose frivolous lawsuits of any kind, we disagree with the “findings” of the bill and do not view current law as threatening in any way to the existence of the firearms industry. In fact, this bill, in the guise of guarding 2nd Amendment rights, treats gun owners like second-class citizens. Gun owners will be denied the right to sue if they are sold a badly designed or improperly constructed product that injures them or their family members. Corrupt gun dealers will be given special protection under the law. And the worst actors in the business will get a free ride, which gives the entire firearms industry a black eye.

We oppose frivolous lawsuits against responsible gun makers, distributors and sellers, and we would not object to a more narrowly crafted bill to limit suits intended to harass or bankrupt those defendants. But S.659 is far too broad – it would sweep from the courthouse not only the junk suits, but injured gun owners with legitimate causes of action and plaintiffs bringing cases against the minority of irresponsible gun makers and dealers who deserve every legal sanction that can be brought


From here (http://ww2.americansforgunsafety.com/press_release.asp?id=230&page=1).

Billmanweh
November 26, 2003, 02:45 PM
Applauding (not demanding) wal-mart for exceeding the minimum regulations and selling guns only to buyers who pass a background check is anti-gun?

I guess I'm just not getting it..

HarryB
November 26, 2003, 02:48 PM
In the 80's a station in Chicago aired "The Deer Hunter" uncut and the next morning several people in the viewing area were dead from self inflicted gunshots--apparently mimicing the tense Russian Roulette scenes.

Harry Tuttle
November 26, 2003, 03:10 PM
The AGS meme is engineered to appear to be moderate and reasonable,
but the puppet masters are still part of the socialist antigun Brady/MMM/VPC/Ceasefire pantheon

ROSIE O'DONNELL
Emcee, Million Mom March

"All right everyone, you did it! You did it, we did it together! 750,000 here, millions more across America. The NRA- you have
been put on notice, the gig is up! Donna Dees-Thomases, a suburban New Jersey housewife, was fed up one day, this is the
result of that passion! This is the result! Will all the organizers come out as I read the list of sponsors...... Dannon Yogurt. Go buy
that yogurt!...... File Maker Pro...... Funders Collaborative for the Prevention of Gun Violence...... Guess Jeans......
iVillage.com...... The Barbara Lee Family Foundation...... localmom.com...... mom.com...... A huge donor, monster.com. When you use a search engine go to them...... Oxygen Media...... Parent Magazine...... Child Magazine...... PAXTV...... Planet Hollywood.
Get the Captain Crunch Chicken...... Progressive Promotions...... Virgin Atlantic Airways...... voter.com...... WASH FM...... The rally
is over, the movement has begun! Thank you!

Gordon Fink
November 26, 2003, 05:42 PM
… the next morning several people in the viewing area were dead from self inflicted gunshots—apparently mimicing the tense Russian Roulette scenes.

If true, we need more Russian roulette scenes in movies and television. That might help weed out the idiots in our society.

This is the same reason I despise the unnecessary warning labels on so many of today’s consumer products.

~G. Fink :evil:

XLMiguel
November 26, 2003, 06:03 PM
CYA, OK:rolleyes:
Mostly I was miffed that said PSA gives AGS the patina of being a gun rights 'advocate' to the uninformed, who may, in turn, support them:fire: :barf:

TheOtherOne
November 26, 2003, 06:09 PM
I think AGS could become more dangerous then the Brady's. This is the first time I've heard of them and the first time that I've went to their site but you don't have to look very far to see that they are faking their like of guns. They'll decieve plenty of gun owners into supporting them and I guarantee that their support on the issues will be right along with groups like Brady.

Check out their Gun Glossary. Almost everything in their is anti-gun.

http://ww2.americansforgunsafety.com/gun_glossary.html

Assault Weapons
The civilian version of military guns, defined in federal law as semi-automatic firearms with a detachable magazine and certain features such as a folding stock, bayonet mount, or pistol grip (allowing an assault rifle to be fired with one hand). The manufacture of new assault weapons was banned in 1994, but weapons made before the ban continue to be easily and legally available, except in states that have legislated to prohibit such sales. One of the guns used in the Columbine massacre was a pre-ban TEC-DC9 assault pistol, purchased at a gun show.

bountyhunter
November 26, 2003, 06:11 PM
In the 80's a station in Chicago aired "The Deer Hunter" uncut and the next morning several people in the viewing area were dead from self inflicted gunshots--apparently mimicing the tense Russian Roulette scenes.

death Certificate:

CAUSE OF DEATH: STUPIDITY

cordex
November 26, 2003, 06:28 PM
Billmanweh,
Fine, even if you support Wallyworld getting out of the gun biz in California, how do you feel about AGS's position on the other things brought up? The so-called "gun show loophole" and "assault weapons" and such?
I notice you skirted those issues when they were brought up.

MikeK
November 26, 2003, 06:41 PM
24 is the only network show I don't miss. Hi, my name is Mike.....

I agree that AGS is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I'll still watch the show.

Billmanweh
November 26, 2003, 07:22 PM
First off, I'm not the spokeman for the site. I just don't see it as anti-gun though, I read it as being pretty fair and balanced.

The gun show "loophole"

"In 1993, Congress passed the Brady Bill, which requires federally licensed gun dealers to perform background checks on all gun buyers. And the system has worked fairly well - since this law went into effect in 1994, background checks have stopped over 800,000 convicted felons, domestic abusers and other illegal buyers from getting guns. But because the Brady Bill does not apply to private gun sellers, criminals and other prohibited buyers who cannot buy firearms at gun stores can skirt the law and obtain guns from private sellers at gun shows. In most states, these gun sales do not require a background check. That means no ID, no questions asked."

remind me what you disagree with here?

and the "assault weapon" definition...

"Assault Weapons
The civilian version of military guns, defined in federal law as semi-automatic firearms with a detachable magazine and certain features such as a folding stock, bayonet mount, or pistol grip (allowing an assault rifle to be fired with one hand). The manufacture of new assault weapons was banned in 1994, but weapons made before the ban continue to be easily and legally available, except in states that have legislated to prohibit such sales. One of the guns used in the Columbine massacre was a pre-ban TEC-DC9 assault pistol, purchased at a gun show."

again, remind me of what is innacurate?

If I had written it, it would probably have a different spin/slant, but I don't see anything here that isn't factual.

And I never said I supported Wal-Mart getting out of the gun business. But what good does it do anyone for Wal-Mart to sell guns to someone who hasn't passed the background check? What if they sell a gun to a felon, who under the letter of the law waited the three days and then got his gun without the background check being finished, and then he commits a crime with it. That helps our cause somehow?

Gordon Fink
November 26, 2003, 07:29 PM
Bill, if someone wants to ban “assault” weapons and close the gun-show “loophole,” then that someone is anti-gun—or more accurately, that someone opposes the right to arms.

~G. Fink

Andrew Rothman
November 26, 2003, 07:53 PM
Bill, the "loophole" isn't, and "assault weapons" aren't.

If they were fair and balanced, they'd mention that.

cordex
November 26, 2003, 09:55 PM
First off, I'm not the spokeman for the site.
You sure?
Let's see ...
You said:
The gun show "loophole"

"In 1993, Congress passed the Brady Bill, which requires federally licensed gun dealers to perform background checks on all gun buyers. And the system has worked fairly well - since this law went into effect in 1994, background checks have stopped over 800,000 convicted felons, domestic abusers and other illegal buyers from getting guns. But because the Brady Bill does not apply to private gun sellers, criminals and other prohibited buyers who cannot buy firearms at gun stores can skirt the law and obtain guns from private sellers at gun shows. In most states, these gun sales do not require a background check. That means no ID, no questions asked."

remind me what you disagree with here?
I note that you conveniently quote only the first part.
Look down a few paragraphs.
From their website:
That is why AGS is backing federal legislation sponsored by Senators John McCain Jack Reed, Mike DeWine and Joe Lieberman. Their bi-partisan bill will require background checks at gun shows and would finally close this dangerous loophole that allows criminals, domestic abusers and even terrorists to get guns.
Essentially, what they're looking to do is ban person-to-person transfers. I vehemently oppose this.

Heck, the entire website is essentially just there to shill for the McCain/Reed/DeWine/Lieberman bill.

Not sure what is so hard to understand. AGS is not our friend.

Billmanweh
November 26, 2003, 10:33 PM
somehow, I'm being misunderstood here...

first off, I have no agenda in trying to defend this website. if you agree or disagree with me, or this site, I couldn't care less. I don't see it as "anti-gun", that doesn't mean I'm trying to convince you what to think about it.

but through this entire thread, people have cut and pasted and quoted things out of context. I just don't see anything on the site that isn't factual. you might disagree with the spin they use, but I still haven't heard anyone come up facts that disproves anything on the site.

saying the "loophole" isn't and "assault weapons" aren't is just bickering over semantics.

Harry Tuttle
November 26, 2003, 11:06 PM
Americans for Gun Safety

By Dr. Michael S. Brown
web posted April 29, 2002

An organization calling itself "Americans for Gun Safety" has financed a wave of radio ads, currently running in selected cities, that claim gun shows are a source of weapons for foreign terrorists. Listeners are urged to pressure Congress to fix this allegedly urgent problem.

These radio spots are deceptive political attack ads, like those we complain about at election time. It takes only a moment's thought to recall that terrorists have numerous sources of armaments that are vastly superior in price, quality and selection to what can be obtained at American gun shows.

Today's real terrorist threat does not even involve guns. Terror bombers use explosives and hijackers use improvised weapons like box cutters. We are also concerned with weapons of mass destruction, which certainly do not come from gun shows.

The strategy behind this strange series of ads can only be understood by looking at the reality of Americans for Gun Safety (AGS). The important questions to ask are how many members have joined this organization, where does their money come from, and what is their interest in gun safety?

The answer to the first question is easy. There are no members. AGS is a front organization for billionaire Andrew McKelvey, who likes to spend his money influencing public opinion. Choosing an issue to support was probably tough for a rich urban liberal like Mr. McKelvey. Many liberal issues involve restrictions on corporations and free markets, not the sort of thing his high society friends would approve of.

Campaigning for tougher gun laws is the perfect solution. McKelvey is certainly aware that all the laws he is proposing will never affect his kind. No self-respecting billionaire would ever be seen looking for bargains at a gun show with all those icky working class peasants. No matter how strict gun laws become, the rich will always have easy access to guns.

Their claimed interest in gun safety is also easy to explain. They really aren't interested in promoting gun safety at all. Their entire safety effort appears to consist of some simple advice on their web site. As far as I can tell, they have not sponsored a single gun safety or hunter's education class. All of their money goes into anti-gun advertising, other anti-gun organizations, or to support political candidates who are cozy with McKelvey.

To better understand the disingenuous nature of this slick operation, visit their website (americansforgunsafety.org) and note the prominent opening claim that AGS "supports the rights of individuals who own firearms for sport, protection, and collection."

Then view the page labeled "about AGS." Read the list of AGS priorities to see what they are actually doing. Don't hold your breath as you search for projects that actually support the rights of individuals. All you will find is a list of ways they are spending McKelvey's money in support of more laws to restrict gun rights, while doing absolutely nothing to defend them.

The basic premise of AGS is therefore a deception. It is simply a unit of the anti-gun lobby operating under a false flag. There are logical reasons why the anti-gun lobby has chosen to attack gun shows. First, they are an easy target. Only a small percentage of people have attended a gun show, so it is easy to inaccurately portray them as havens for criminals and terrorists.

Perhaps even more important, gun shows offer fundraising and outreach opportunities for gun rights organizations. By attacking gun shows, AGS strikes at the heart of their enemy. Unfortunately for AGS, attacks on gun shows have lost momentum since a government study revealed that only seven tenths of one percent of criminals obtained their guns from gun shows. This may be why they are stretching the truth in a desperate attempt to link gun shows with terrorists.

As with all political attack ads, the reality does not match the rhetoric. And the story behind the ads is more interesting than the ads themselves. Radio listeners would be well advised to do their own research and make up their own minds.

Dr. Michael S. Brown is a member of Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws. E-mail him at rkba2000@yahoo.com.

Harry Tuttle
November 26, 2003, 11:09 PM
The Gottlieb-Tartaro Report
Issue 071
November, 2000

DANGER: PRO-GUN MASQUERADE


Watch out! A new national gun group, Americans for Gun Safety, recently made its debut. It is being touted as "centrist" and "common sense" in the media.

The group's rhetoric is disarming. One of its leaders told reporters, "Americans sense there's much more we can do to stop gun violence, and that we can do it without infringing on the rights of law-abiding citizens."

That's very acceptable to the average American. Even gun owners agree. And that's what's so dangerous about this new organization.

In fact, it is an anti-gun group trying to look pro-gun. The organization is not only using gun control jargon ("gun violence"), it is also pushing for gun control legislation in state ballot measures and numerous other anti-gun projects.

Americans for Gun Safety (AGS) was founded by billionaire ANDREW McKELVEY, CEO of the employment search firm TMP Worldwide and Monster.com.

McKELVEY is using his wealth - $12 million of it so far - to promote AGS, even going so far as to "buy" grassroots support, offering $80,000 for staff and equipped offices to any existing gun control group if they become a chapter. So far 28 have signed on.

McKELVEY, who says he is a registered Republican, has only donated political campaign money to Democrats, according to the Federal Elections Commission database. He is a big donor to Democratic Party campaigns and candidates, and has given $2,000 so far this year to anti-gun Democrat Congresswoman CAROLYN McCARTHY of New York.

According to the Associated Press, McKELVEY gave $1 million in soft money to Senator JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ) to make a 30-second TV spot supporting Oregon's Measure 5, titled, "A Gun Registration Act," and a similar one in Colorado.

That's quite a hypocrisy from a Senator who campaigned to ban soft money.

Oregon Republican Party Chairman PERRY ATKINSON denounced McCAIN for injecting himself into an issue that the state Republican Party had unanimously opposed.

McCAIN, it turns out, had not even read the ballot measure he supported in the TV ad. But that's the kind of clout McKELVEY's money can buy.

Media reports talk about gun control groups being offended by Americans for Gun Safety because it acknowledges the right to own guns - or seems to.

JONATHAN COWAN, named president of the AGS by money man McKELVEY, actually said, "with the right to own guns come responsibilities," not that he defends gun rights.

Of course, the vast and overwhelming majority of gun owners are responsible.

McKELVEY evidently feels that the right to own a gun is subject to his opinion of your "responsibilities" - and he thinks he has the cash to prove it.

McKELVEY should notice that the U.S. Constitution does not contain a Bill of Responsibilities, it has a Bill of Rights - with the Second Amendment in it.

cordex
November 28, 2003, 08:09 PM
Billmanweh,
through this entire thread, people have cut and pasted and quoted things out of context.
If I have done this, I'm sorry, and I'd appreciate if you'd point out where.

Context is very important in any discussion.
I just don't see anything on the site that isn't factual. you might disagree with the spin they use, but I still haven't heard anyone come up facts that disproves anything on the site.
See: Gun show "loophole". They claim it is "dangerous" and a favorite tool of terrorists. Is that spin or a fact?

These guys are as anti-gun as HCI/Brady Center or VPC, just with different clothes. Instead of wearing soccer-mom T-shirts, they wear blaze orange, but the people behind it are asking for the same things. "Sensible" gun laws - meaning that they want target rifles/handguns, and hunting shotguns to be legal to transfer if you go through a bunch of federal hoops, but everything else to be illegal. This is an awful popular view among a certain section of the gun-owning populace. I consider those who support it to be anti-gun. This is consistant with my views that someone who claims to support freedom of speech but works to ban "offensive" books is a statist.

Is Sarah Brady anti-gun? She bought her son a hunting rifle not too long ago ...

papercut
November 28, 2003, 09:09 PM
OK, so we seem to be all agreed that it was "CYA" to run the thing at the end. But, if Keifer Sutherland is a pro-rights guy, then why did he pick that particular anti-rights organization to promote? Why not the NRA instead? After all, they've been around a lot longer, and (gasp) they actually TEACH safety courses, unlike AGS.... :scrutiny: Sumthin' ain't fittin' here.

Ridgeway
November 28, 2003, 09:41 PM
Why not the NRA instead? After all, they've been around a lot longer, and (gasp) they actually TEACH safety courses, unlike AGS.... Sumthin' ain't fittin' here.


The NRA seems to be less PC for most liberals(disregarding their efforts to promote safety...)...

Triad
November 28, 2003, 09:51 PM
papercut, you're assuming he has any control over who to promote.

Ryder
November 28, 2003, 10:16 PM
California has criminal storage laws. In fact their weapons laws are the most extensive I've ever seen. The producers probably did do this for californian liability purposes.

Keifer is just saying what his boss pays him to say but they should be more careful about telling free america how to live when we are tuning in for entertainment.

greyhound
November 28, 2003, 10:16 PM
They also aired the "Viewer Discretion" message after every commercial break of last nights 24, something I don't recall seeing during other episodes.

whats odd is Kiefer said "please contact the organization shown on your screen for more information"

I just watched it on tape and so was ready and forewarned that it was coming...

Yeah the whole thing took about 5 seconds and seemed like a "blanket" disclaimer designed for many situations (makes ya wonder what's down the road).

I also haven't seen any other "Viewer Discretion" tags on previous episodes.

Lots of gunplay before, I guess its the Russian Roulette.

Remember about 10 years ago, the college football movie that had the star quarterback lying on the highway between the traffic? And the copycats (and controversy)? "24" is a popular show, so its probably CYA....

Gopher
November 28, 2003, 11:09 PM
I rolled tape on it and just today had time to watch it. I agree that the message is a CYA move on the part of the producers and Fox. I figure with the rash of D.A.'s that have hurt or killed themselves trying to duplicate stunts seen on MTV's Jackass because of the Russian Roulette scene they added the disclaimer.

Dont know if you can blame Keifer for the choice of web site for "more information" or not. He probably just shot the PSA not knowing what was to follow.

24 is still the only show on broadcast TV I ever make an attempt to watch.

Combat-wombat
November 29, 2003, 12:01 AM
I actually know for a fact that Kiefer Sutherlandis pro-gun (at least on some level) because I have a friend that sold him a revolver a while back. So, at least he enjoys guns.

Geech
November 29, 2003, 12:29 AM
Unfortunately for AGS, attacks on gun shows have lost momentum since a government study revealed that only seven tenths of one percent of criminals obtained their guns from gun shows.

Anyone have a link to this study?

Billmanweh
November 29, 2003, 02:03 AM
Anyone have a link to this study?


from surveys of inmates...

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf

Dain Bramage
November 29, 2003, 02:22 AM
I thought the scene was a direct ripoff of THE DEER HUNTER. Jack (Kiefer Sutherland's character) even shoots a convict with his one bullet. I always thought that would be an occupational hazard for people forcing others to play Russian Roulette. I half expected Jack to ask for three bullets like Robert DeNiro.

I have good news / bad news for the Darwin candidates out there:

The good news is that revolvers are a lot less prevalent from the time THE DEER HUNTER came out.

The bad news is that semi-auto handguns are a lot more prevalent. :evil:

Billmanweh
November 29, 2003, 02:53 AM
off topic I guess, but I thought the scene sucked to begin with.

how believable is it that in the middle of a prison riot, inmates are going to stop down for a game of guard russian roulette?

Pendragon
November 29, 2003, 04:19 AM
Also - I thought about it and - where did they get the revolver?

I have seen the CA correctional officers at the range and they all seem to shoot boring DA type self loading pistols.

Never saw deer hunter - the scene was interesting and fairly intense, but really not very realistic.

BluesBear
November 29, 2003, 08:17 AM
please contact the organization shown on your screen for more information That would lead me to believe that this was just a boiler plate announcement.
He was probably obligated by his contract to do this.
Since he doesn't mention the org by name he probably had no idea who it would be at air time.

I'm willing to give Kiefer the benefit of a doubt.

Mad Man
November 29, 2003, 08:49 AM
off topic I guess, but I thought the scene sucked to begin with.

how believable is it that in the middle of a prison riot, inmates are going to stop down for a game of guard russian roulette?


How believable is anything in 24 (http://fox.com/24/)?

I watched the entire first season, and am convinced that every character must have had some brain-sucking alien attached to them. Maybe that was/will be revealed in another season, but I couldn't stand to watch anymore.


As for those who believe that Americans for Gun Safety (http://ww2.americansforgunsafety.com/) is not "anti-gun," please explain

(1) how their agenda is different from the Handgun Control Inc (http://www.bradycampaign.org/) or the Million Mom March (http://millionmommarch.org/).

(2) what they have done to actually protect and expand the rights of gun owners.


Saying that AGS is not anti-gun is like saying that groups that anti-abortion groups that are willing to make exceptions for cases of rape and incest are not anti-abortion. Except that the anti-abortion groups don't make such a silly claim.

brookstexas
November 29, 2003, 11:06 PM
The show has Keifer as a Heroin addict, people smoke and drink but they run a PSA on GUNS???????
Compared to cigs and drinking guns are safe as a pillow!

Don't get me started on gun owners who can't tell the sight is biased, they are why we will eventually lose our right....
BT

Combat-wombat
December 1, 2003, 09:12 PM
I thought the scene was a direct ripoff of THE DEER HUNTER
I was thinking the exact same thing.

The show has Keifer as a Heroin addict, people smoke and drink but they run a PSA on GUNS???????
Compared to cigs and drinking guns are safe as a pillow!
Exactly!

Also, when they put the "Viewer Discretion Advised" notice up, I thought there was going to be some horribly bloody or gory scene (like last season), but instead it was for "unsafe gun handling". Yeah, you shouldn't play russian roulette, but come on! If they're going to put up an advisory for that, put up an advisory when Jack shoots up on heroin, or when a dump truck pours dead bodies into a mass grave!

brookstexas
December 1, 2003, 09:31 PM
Every month some kid around here kills someone in a motor vehicle accident, shall we discuss the driving on 24?
BT

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