Zastava P.A.P.


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Uncle Mike
April 15, 2010, 12:13 AM
Got one in today, are these things any good???

They look to be pretty well built, I did not get to fondle it before the customer left with it, and the guy that sold it didn't notice....anything about it.

Does it use double stack mags....floating bolt....anybody do any time with one?

It came with a scope mount also...

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greyling22
April 15, 2010, 01:26 AM
I've got a zastava mini mauser. good gun, but I'm now out on zastava. nearly impossible to get parts and no reliable importer.

Shadow 7D
April 15, 2010, 05:25 AM
Yeah, they are here, the new Winchester or is it Remington Mauser action 798?? is a zastava Mauser, as for parts, EAA and a couple others have over the years imported them, but most of their designs are not original so you can find parts that may fit for them.

Kurt_D
April 15, 2010, 12:34 PM
OR are you talking about their "sporting" AK? Form everything I've read they are well built but they use propriotary mags (single stack) and aren't able to be opened up easily to accept standard mil-spec mags. They are made for Yugo furniture but the rear is cut at an angle to prevent fitting a standard buttstock. They do look pretty good with wood even for a tumbhole stock.

Uncle Mike
April 15, 2010, 01:31 PM
I checked one out this AM. Nice! BUT single stack magazine, and a pain to switch out the stock, no muzzle device and you could not adapt one without some hair pulling, also the bolt is cut to strip rounds from a single stack mag so even IF you ground the receiver open to accept a two row mag, chances are your going to get many FTF's.

Nicely built AK though, better than whats out there now! If you can live with a Clintonized AK rifle, your ahead of the game! lol

Maverick223
April 15, 2010, 01:58 PM
If I were in the market for that type of rifle, I'd opt for the neighboring competition...the VZ-58.

:)

Uncle Mike
April 15, 2010, 11:11 PM
VZ-58's are cool, but since I lean mostly towards highly accurate bolt guns....

Everyone needs a change of flavor every now and again....right?

So I went with a Arsenal Saiga Brand Izhmash AK-47...with the picatinny rail front end!

Hope its a cherry....

Shadow 7D
April 15, 2010, 11:48 PM
Hate to tell you, for the money could have build yourself one hell of an AK off of a base siaga receiver, doesn't take much to trick one out, a basic conversion cost you about 70 if you do it yourself, however for the money, I would have gotten the VZ-58

Uncle Mike
April 16, 2010, 11:40 AM
however for the money, I would have gotten the VZ-58

Why is that? Is the VZ-58 better than the AK, or is it the manufacturer concern...?

Maverick223
April 16, 2010, 12:18 PM
Why is that? Is the VZ-58 better than the AK, or is it the manufacturer concern...?The Saiga is a great rifle, but IMO the VZ-58 is a little nicer rifle...but as long as neither is a CAI rifle, there is nothing wrong with either one. Additionally, I imagine the Zastava exhibits the same good quality as their other rifles.

Gotta ask why you went with a Arsenal build instead of your own (I know you have the tools and expertise)...is it because your love of working on the AK is so strong? :evil:

Uncle Mike
April 16, 2010, 12:44 PM
Gotta ask why you went with a Arsenal build instead of your own (I know you have the tools and expertise)...is it because your love of working on the AK is so strong?

Rather take a beating with a log chain than to work on these things...right!

In my old age, it seems I...... am getting lazy? There are many other, shall we say, 'nicer' projects I would like/must/need to finish...given the time, money, parts(where are my parts) and desire! lol hehehe

Seems smiths are a dyeing breed, and while the newer generation does not fancy 'custom' built firearms as much as the older folks used to, the work is still brisk, due to there are not many of us left that will tinker with a customers firearm, due to legal ramifications.....so that's my....no time excuse!

Now then.....the 'kids' talked me into this particular brand, I am sure they have the old man with one foot in the grave and their eye on this fine firearm! lol I still love them though! hehehehe And I did want to get a no fuss, no muss, accurate(as can be expected from a boat anchor), well finished and with a warranty rifle..... so that is my....brand decision excuse!

The Arsenal units we have sold all looked pretty good, I did not look over them with any scrutiny, but they did look good. The VZ-58 may be next, who knows?

Maverick223
April 16, 2010, 01:08 PM
Seems smiths are a dyeing breedWhat do you dye...fiberglass stocks and plastic stock panels? :neener:

...accurate(as can be expected from a boat anchor)...Now that's a pretty accurate statement. :D

Uncle Mike
April 16, 2010, 04:28 PM
Well, we 'die' stocks, socks and our underwear a lot of times! lol hehehehe:neener:

Boat anchor....? did I say that? whoops!

Since we're talking VZ's and such.....

Does anybody know who has accessories and parts for the VZ-58 other than Fab Defense/Mako Security?

Another reason to get the AK over the VZ...have you seen the cost of the stocks, grips, mags and so on for the VZ-58, I mean seriously!

...and VZ-58's are on sale right now...$277 off of the regular price! :what: :banghead:

What to do now....... :cool:

Shadow 7D
April 16, 2010, 05:14 PM
I believe that CZ-USA is bringing in the VZ 58 in new condition, rather than the CIA builds on US receivers, the mechanics on a 58 are completely different, much closer to a SKS than an AK, the fit and finish is good, supposedly they are more accurate than your standard AK too.

I'm looking at a siaga, maybe in x39 or 5.45, still would like to save my pennies for the VZ, just like the tilt bolt and solid feel.

Uncle Mike
April 16, 2010, 07:27 PM
The CZ VZ-58's are brand new, built in the Czech Republic and imported by CZ themselves.

They are not parts guns, or like all the AK's in the U.S., re-assembles. They are 100% CZ Czech made but with a different fire control group and 2 less parts in the bolt to render it semi-auto.

The VZ-58's have been discontinued by CZ, they will not be bringing any more in (for now, they say). 2010 is the last year for them. CZ is however still going to produce them in 'limited' quantities but have no expectation of importing any into the U.S..

Another source said they (CZ) may be going to do a design change and import them again, but that was just a guess. Several calls to CZ were not returned before quitting time today so.....?

Whatever, if you always wanted a VZ-58, better hurry!

Maverick223
April 16, 2010, 08:13 PM
...and VZ-58's are on sale right now...$277 off of the regular price! [...] Whatever, if you always wanted a VZ-58, better hurry!That is a smokin' deal...but alas I just ordered a new 7.62x39mm MSAR E-4 to fill that spot in the safe (and it'll fit sideways on the shelf with the pistols :neener:). Perhaps I will invest in one if they come out with a 5.45x39mm (if they redesign and reintroduce it that is).

:)

Uncle Mike
April 17, 2010, 02:16 AM
Think I might ditch the Arsenal SGL-21 and get the VZ-58, might have get them both!
But if CZ is not going to bring anymore in, it might be a good idea to grab one of these.

who is selling those E-4 MSAR's, we have not been able to get any in yet?!?

Maverick223
April 17, 2010, 03:22 AM
Think I might ditch the Arsenal SGL-21 and get the VZ-58, might have get them both!Never a bad choice to have two instead of one. :D

who is selling those E-4 MSAR's, we have not been able to get any in yet?!?Ratworx is the sole distributer for these, called them yesterday (to place the order for the 7.62x39mm model) and they said they had some .223Rem. models in stock. If you want a 7.62x39mm, 5.45x39mm, or 6.8mmSPC model any time soon you should order now. Those are limited run models, and only 30 of each are going to be produced...at least to begin with (don't know how well the commie cartridges will sell, but I would think the 6.8SPC will do well).

:)

Uncle Mike
April 17, 2010, 03:02 PM
I'll call them Monday.....I can role that Arsenal into the stores stock and order whatever.
I was shooting the bull with a customer this AM about AK's and such, and he promptly retrieved a VEPR from Robinson Armory from his truck, nice rifle but pretty darn heavy.

They use the RPK stamped receivers with the reinforced barrel trunnion area of the receiver and they have a slightly heavier barrel. The cost is the same as the VZ's that are on sale, which are cheaper than the Arsenal's are.

I don't know, but the VZ-58 or the folder, the VZ-2008 are sweet, much easier to take down, striker fired, milled receiver, lighter than the AK and way more accurate so I read...about the only down side is the availability of accessories, you either get them from Mako out of New York, or you send to Zahal in Israel!

Maverick223
April 17, 2010, 03:09 PM
The VZ-2008 is a CAI rifle, I'd stick with the original...like this one (http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-58-rifles/sa-vz-58-military-folder-polymer/).

:)

Uncle Mike
April 17, 2010, 06:01 PM
I know, just referring to the folding stock model most folks are familiar with...no no no no CAI stuff, I break out in hives when I touch CAI firearms, that's why I can't work on them at work, medical reasons lol....well, that's what I told them anyway! hehehe

I was at the shop figuring how much I would have into a VZ AFTER the folding stock, Rail type aluminum forearm, scope mount and base (which I would have to install) and Pistol grip.....a man would have to have some issues to throw that kind of cash into an AK or VZ....just my opinion! But here goes! lol

Maverick223
April 17, 2010, 07:51 PM
I too am allergic to em'...I think it has something to do with stray monkey hair getting stuck in the receiver during their "modifications". ;)

biglynch
September 21, 2011, 03:28 AM
does anyone have a scopes pap rifle? if so what type of scope? I mainly want to know what would be a good scope for this rifle, I want to buy one but I need scope options and opinions so I know what to look for.

thanks.

ugaarguy
September 21, 2011, 03:58 AM
biglynch, welcome to THR. The PAP has a standard Picatinny style rail attached to the dust cover, so you can run pretty much any optic you want. 7.62x39 is a relatively short range round, so I'd look at 1-4, and 2-7 power scopes. Many folks use red dots for fast target acquisition at close ranges. If you list a desired budget, and intended use we can make better recommendations.

biglynch
September 22, 2011, 01:13 AM
thank u, but im wondering because its a great looking rifle and I want a good little gun for hunting and home defence I have also wanted a ak so this fits that gap lol, I mean my range of a scope is probably around 140$ any good ideas?

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