Non-reloaders... read

For years I have heard the horror stories about reloading...sort of like "you'll shoot your eye out" or you will blow your gun up. But a couple of years back I took the chance and bought a Lee turrent reloader kit. With the dies and everything it was under a hundred bucks...best money I ever spent. I get the primers, powder & bullets at the local gun show...primers are $15 per 1,000 .. powder is $15 a pound and the 230 gr. lead round nose bullets are $40 per 1,000. My pet load for the .45 is 4.2 gr. of Bullseye with the 230 gr. LRN bullet. A good practice load...not to hot and very accurate. I now reload for my 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, .45 acp, and 38 & 357 mag. If you do much shooting at all you will save money, shoot more and have bunches of fun . Find someone local who reloads and who will be willing to help you get started and go for it. I have thought about buying a nicer Dillion reloader but for now the Lee press is still turning out good, low cost, high quality reloads....LIFE is GOOD.........

I know, I know...but I'm a shooter and not a reloader.

Remember, you could be at the range shooting and not trying to make all of those little pieces fit together. ;)

John

Sure you can buy ammo. And ammo prices have never been better.

But...

For some of us, there is a special satisfaction that comes with rolling your own.

For example, I am an avid Model Railroader, and there are some very nice prebuilt models out there right now. But they're pricey. I buy a few, but most of mine are built from kits.

They may not be as fancy or be as superdetailed as the RTR, but, I have more pride in those that I built. Especialy since they all run just as well or better as the expensive ones.


Just remember, when you do it yourself, you can do it your way.

Being someone who loves cleaning his guns because it gives me one more opportunity to fondle them, I must say I'd LOVE to get into reloading. My fears are that I will spend all the money up front and it will be too much of a pain, or I will buy the wrong equipment and kick myself for it. I realize Dillon is good, but quite expensive. Maybe some of you reloaders could share some just getting started tips and tricks for us noobs, like what equipment to buy, what to stay away from, where to buy it, etc... I'm hoping this will turn into a very informative thread.

I recommend one of the RCBS starter kits. There is a Master kit for ~$250 that has more than you need, like a case trimmer. I got the Special 5 Kit at a gun show for around $170. It comes with press, good scale, loading block, powder funnel, case lube and case lube mat, primer tray, and a speer reloading book. Read the reloading book before you even start to build your reloading bench. Also, hang out in the reloading forum here, lots of info and pics of various benches and presses. And ask questions too!

The Lee reloading kits are good, but I still recommend te RCBS for better quality equipment. Save the progressives for later. Besides, you'll always need a single stage for something!

Reloading is a great side hobby to shooting. It allows you to shoot alot more, and the rounds are taylored to both you and your guns.

If you do much shooting at all you will save money, shoot more and have bunches of fun .

Better yet, tell me your price for 1,000 rounds of FMJ .45, shipped to Seattle.

You load, I'll shoot, we'll both be happy.

Im slowly acquiring the necessary tools to "Roll my Own":D

Should be up and running by the end of the year.

If you are just starting out I suggest getting the RCBS Rockchucker press. It is THE strongest press on the market and can handle everything up to forming bullet jackets. If you start to load rifle cartridges or you begin to search for accuracy you will indeed need a case trimmer. The Rockchucker kit is a very good value for what you get, plus if you want to move up from a single stage press you can install a Piggyback unit and it becomes a progressive press (the Piggyback unit also fits the Special 5 press).

I'm hoping this will turn into a very informative thread.
http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?forumid=15
Johnny over in the Handloading forum has a special thread for just that reason. Check it out.

RE: Cost of roll your own vs factory. I've stressed this over and over. It's important to compare apples to apples. For less than the cost of the cheapest factory ammo, you can usually handload ammo that compares more to the premium defensive loads; you can tailor ammunition to meet specific needs.

First, I don't really save much money reloading. I do get ammo that is tailored to my guns and needs. Much of what I like to shoot is either expensive, hard to come by, or both.

I don't reload 9mm because I can buy it cheaper than I can reload it (after paying for the dies, etc) and because I don't shoot it enough. I only reload 38spec when I'm bored because I can buy cheap lead reloads at gunshows for just a little more than it costs for me to roll my own. The gunshow reloads are plenty good for the plinking I do with 38spec. I do reload my 357mag loads because I like heavy bullets and those loads are twice the price of my reloads. I also load my own 6.5x55 because it's not the most common round out there and my handloads are more accurate in my gun.

Second, you don't need a $250+ reloading kit. If you're just getting started, a Lee Turret kit for a single caliber can't be beat. True, it's not as strong as some of the others on the market, but it will load handgun and rifle calibers without any problem. And, if you decide you don't like reloading, you're not out much money.

Chris

I haven't found this to be true for me personally, I do shoot a lot more than I otherwise could. I started out with a Lee turret press and am quite happy with it, but whatever brand you buy will have advantages and disadvantages, price v speed. I haven't found a 50rd box of ammo for less than $26.00 in my area, .41mag. Loading new brass about $.25 each and old bress about $.12 a round. One other real advantage is that I can load all combinations of components mild to hot, whatever I am interested in shooting at the time. Jim.

I haven't found a 50rd box of ammo for less than $26.00 in my area

Ouch! That's steep - we can getthem cheper here in the PRNJ.

Ever consider mail order? Bought in bulk (and assuming it's legal wherever ypu are) you can get down around $10 for 50 rounds of factory new 45acp, or even down to $6 / 50 for remanufactured ammo from Black Hills (38 spc)

I think I saw a few 44 mags online somewhere, name brand new ammo for around $14 / 50.

Not sure I misread, but $26 is steep for 50 rounds of anything but 454 casull . . . .

I have been reloading for just under a year now, and I can I really enjoy it. I can't say I have saved any money by reloading but I can say that I get to shoot more often.

I can load a box of .45 acp for about $4.69 vs the $12-13 dollar boxes that the ranges sells.

I have a dillon Square Deal B. If your shooting a single calliber like I am,(I just reload for IDPA) this is a fantastic press.

I just can't believe that I didn't start "rolling my own" sooner that I did.

Gunner45

You get to load and shoot ammo that you may not find from the general manufacturers, from the mundane to the exotic. BTW, from my experience (and maybe others) reloading doesn't actually save you money - it just lets you shoot more for the same amount of cash. Reloading is and has been my only hobby since '79

One of my favorite calibers is .45 Colt. I save a tremendous amount of money by reloading that caliber. Plus, I hunt with it in a Winchester '92 clone, and I can load it up to it's potential in that firearm much less expensively than buying custom .45 Colt hunting rounds.

I reload the .45 Colt and it saves me a bunch of money.

A factory box of 50 will run $15 to $25 depending on what brand/type.

I can reload a box in a configuration to my preference and not available commercially for $4.60 if I use my own brass. If I have to buy brass (haven't had to do that yet) then the next box would cost a bit over $10 after that - back to under $5 (brass bought and paid for and a sunk cost).

That's a fairly substantial savings and with a Lee Turret reloader I can usually knock out a 100 rds or so in an evening or an afternoon (I'm slow).

I also shoot .40 S&W but don't reload for it because it would cost me around $8 a box (cost of FMJ bullets not lead and recovering the brass is a real PITA) and since I can buy just about any .40 S&W round I'd want for $7 to $11 it just isn't worth my time.

Reloading for me is primarily a way to save money so I can shoot more and a way to get a load not available from the factory. Some folks actually enjoy the act of reloading and I did too the first 4 or 5 times. Now it's just tedious not interesting or relaxing. But for a $10 to $20 a box savings I'll do it so I can shoot more.

I agree.

I see reloading as a necessary, wholly non-optional complement to any serious shooting hobby. And not just because it's economical; even if I were preposterously wealthy I would still roll my own. Of course, the savings DO matter. Anyone who shoots .45ACP or .38Spl and doesn't reload is bat-$#@! insane :D

Plan the original needed investment .... and set that aside and say goodbye to it .. you are pretty much into a ''one time'' expenditure ... tho maybe just a few oddments to ''top up''

Once done tho and with some consumables .. you are good to go.

I reload a bit less now ... total laziness but . man, would I ever hate to not have the options. Any time I am low on a cal ... or want some dedicated loads etc ... just settle down with presses and get em done.

Once you have the gear ... you are master of the (reloading) universe!:)

It's also, as has been said above, convenient. If you have a fairly decent selection of bullets and powders, it's like having an ammo store at your house. Before I went hunting last weekend, I simply rolled up 10 rounds, took me about 15 minutes, and was ready to go. No need to go to the store (or, for me, order them and wait a week for them to get here, as .45 Colt hunting loads are usually only available by mail order from places like Buffalo Bore and others).

I shoot mainly 44 Magnum and 45 long Colt. And I shoot a LOT of it.

A few weeks back I sat down, did a quick calculation and realized that all my reloading equipment had easily paid off within about 6 month. Imagine how much you can save when shooting big bore rifles. The bigger the caliber the more you safe.

I couldn't even think of going to the store and buying anything bigger than 9mm in the box.

Of course if you mainly shoot 9mm and buy them in bulk, it's going to be hard to justify the cost of nice reloading equipment.

I only load 45 ACP but if I would have been shooting at the same rate that I was before I bought my 550B and everything else, the payout period would have been about 5 months. Based on how much I shot after I started reloading, the payout was 2 months.

I've been reloading since I was 10. That's when Dad started letting me solo, with him watching.

I still remember the night he came home from the office with the boxed RCBS kit.

Starter kits yes, Rockchucker, no. Not that there's anything wrong with it It's just not necessary nor best for an FNG. It's too slow to use as well. A regular 'C' press is fine and faster to use with good technique. A Rockchucker is required to form caes but not just reloading. In any case, handloading is not about cost. It's about using the absolute best ammo for your firearm. Handloading will likely cost more than some factory, but match grade bullets, ammo tuned exactly for your rifle can't be had from a factory.
"...preposterously wealthy I would still roll my own..." But I' d have some really nice kit. Like the latest Dillion machine for every calibre on solid oak loading benches. In a building specifically designed for loading. Picture it. Skids of match grade bullets. A short stroll to the powde rmagazine. Maybe a powder monkey to fetch it. A 100 yard test range, indoor of course. Scantily clad nubile young girls to change targets...Hey, it's my fantasy. Go get your own.

Only to lose your entire fortune when the parents of a scantily clad nubile young boy sue you for sexual discrimination when you fail to hire him, too... And God help you should the powder monkey get into a feces-throwing fit and only have Bullseye available to toss at you! ;)

Reloading is something I've been on the verge of getting into for awhile now. It looks like the savings are there if you're reloading .38 Spl and .45 ACP - what about .44 Rem Mag, .44 Sp, and 10mm? For my Glock 17, I'll just continue to use Wolf or Walmart Whitebox. What about 357SIG? Are bottleneck pistol rounds a pain to load?

I think a nice starter RCBS is on my Christmas list now. I need more ammo to feed the Griffon.

I got a Rockchucker kit for Christmas last year. I have been loading 45 Colt and 454 Casull. I am sure it has paid for itself by now. I have done a lot more shooting because of the reloader, and it gives me something to do in the winter.

I still buy my 9mm at Wally World - it's pretty hard to beat at $11.50 / 100 box.

But for big bore stuff, 45 colt, 454 casull, you gotta reload if you want to shoot the big stuff a lot.

I'd like to get into reloading, but lack the time and space at the moment.
At $13/50rds of .45 (or, more commonly, $20/100rds), I'd really like to get in to it.

For years I have heard the horror stories about reloading...sort of like "you'll shoot your eye out" or you will blow your gun up.

Since no one else has asked yet, where have you been hearing that? I haven't seen that on THR or TFL or any other gun related board. Was it the guy trying to sell you ammo telling those stories?

I have approximately 15,000 reloads though just one of my .45's. At $6 per 100 rounds, that's $900. If I'd bought Speer Lawman or Federal ammo at $13 per 50 rounds, the cost would have been $3900. Plus, neither the Speer nor the Federal would give me 1" to 1 1/2" groups at 25 yards. Once I got a load dialed in, that's the only load I've used.

Plus, I can reload for rifles and get accuracy that no factory ammo will produce.

Also, given that my wife works 2nd shift, reloading gives me something to do at night.

Now, if only I could get the time during the day to shoot what I've loaded. :(

I always figured I'd spend just as much but get to shoot a bit more.

Here's what I learned: Despite what many folks would say DO NOT get a single stage especially if you consider yourself a mid to high volume handgun shooter. There is nothing complicated about a progressive reloader. "Too many things going on" my eye. If you can drive and watch your dashboard instruments at the same time, you can use a prog.

A prog IMO is even safer than a single stage in preventing a double charge. The only rule is: Don't short stroke the lever. Compare to: An array of 50 shells arranged 5X10 in a loading tray that you place powder in one a time, your S.O. or something distracts you. You come back to your work and...Hmm.. where was I?

Also, if you decide to go prog, get as many stations as you can afford. I have a Lee Pro 1000, it has three stations. I ended up buying a Lee single stage for the crimping operation. Get at least 4 stations. The Lee Loader is a good deal. The folks in their HQ are very knowledgeable and very courteous. They helped me with all my questions. Also the internet gives you easy access to information in case you do get stumped by your prog. Plenty of knowledgeable folks back in the Reloading board of THR.

I don't use auto case feed and auto bullet feed, I check each piece of brass before it goes into the cycle and I check the case under the seating station to verify that it does have powder in it. I can still crank out about 90-100 rds in 30 minutes!

Benchrest/target/precision/small volume shooters should probably get a single stage.

"Rockchucker, no. Not that there's anything wrong with it It's just not necessary nor best for an FNG. It's too slow to use as well."

:scrutiny: :confused:

I reloaded many thousands of rounds on a RockChucker... The one my father brought home from the office... Both rifle and handgun...

It's no faster, but certainly NO slower than any C-press I've ever used, and I've used them all.

It's all in technique.

I suggest a Rockchucker press because a handgun shooter may venture out into the world of rifle shooting also. He or she may go into wildcatting or case forming . The strong single stage press allows this flexibility. If high volume is required then the addition of a Piggyback unit converts the Rockchucker to a progressive press. You can live and operate in both worlds with just one press. Just one thing to consider if one day in the future you look at your bench and see 2 presses, powder measure, and possibly a bullet sizer mounted and space then becomes a premium.
If working up absolute maximum load for a particular firearm then weighing each powder charge is required. Then using a progressive press becomes a slow pain. They both have advantages and disadvantages. Plan not only for today, but look to the future also and buy equipment that can cover many bases.

Another vote for a Rock Chucker.

It'll last you forever.

If you ever decide to quit reloading there will always be someone wanting to buy it.

No matter how advanced you become you will always need a single stage press for some low volume simple operation.

If you want to make just 10 or 15 experimental rounds you can do it faster on a single stage that you can by resetting a progressive.

If you want to assemble uber-consistent match-type loads, a single stage is what you need. Along with a good scale and powder trickler.
(see correction below)

Just my tuppence.

Hi folks,
I haven't been around here for a while:o

Lots of good points made. I like to add don't forget the hand held tong tools . Its just plain fun to use. I normally process all my pistol calibers to the point of expanding the mouth before storing, so Its a simple process to get a completed round with the tong tool. I like the lyman 310 tool, It has a old time feel to it.

BTW since my cases are processed, I use 2 single stage presses like an assembly line. Drop charge, seat bullet on 1 press, Lee factory crimp die on 2nd press. It might seem odd, but it works efficiently for me :D .

Happy Thanksgivings to all!

I can load a box of .45 acp for about $4.69 vs the $12-13 dollar boxes that the ranges sells.

I'll give you $6.00 a box, and pay shipping.

That way, you can make a nice profit.

Anyone who shoots .45ACP or .38Spl and doesn't reload is bat-$#@! insane

However, since we shoot .45 ACP, and can afford to buy our ammo, a wise man wouldn't swear at us, or call us names.
:fire:

"If you want to assemble uber-consistent match-type loads, a single stage is what you need. Along with a good scale and powder trickler."

From what I understand, more than just a few top-flight rifle shooters are now using Dillon progressives and showing no drop-off in accuracy with their loads.

"If you want to assemble uber-consistent match-type loads, a single stage is what you need. Along with a good scale and powder trickler."

From what I understand, more than just a few top-flight rifle shooters are now using Dillon progressives and showing no drop-off in accuracy with their loads.

There was an article about that in The Blue Press (Dillons magazine, so keep that in mind) by Bob Milek several years ago. He loaded up a batch of as I recall 223 with his single stage being carefull to weigh each charge etc all the typical things one would do for top accuracy varmint loads. Then loaded up an equal number on a Dillon 550b progressive and found that the Dillon loads were slightly more accurate, but close enough that he called them equally accurate.

I do agree that a good scale is vital for safe and accurate loading though.

What I said was...

If you want to assemble uber-consistent match-type loads, a single stage is what you need. Along with a good scale and powder trickler.

:banghead:

What I MEANT to say was...

If you want to DEVELOP uber-consistent match-type loads, a single stage is what you need. Along with a good scale and powder trickler.

what about .44 Rem Mag, .44 Sp, and 10mm? I "plink" with the .44 mag in my Trapper - - -
Any way you can think of to say that if you're using factory ammo?
('less you last name is Gates)

I started reloading over 35 years ago and find it relaxing, cost effective, and
the best ammo for my guns. No down side for me.:D

"If you want to DEVELOP uber-consistent match-type loads, a single stage is what you need. Along with a good scale and powder trickler."

That I'll agree with.

I also just arranged to purchase a used Lyman T-Mag turret press, which will largely replace the Lee Turret that I'm currently cursing...

However, since we shoot .45 ACP, and can afford to buy our ammo, a wise man wouldn't swear at us, or call us names.
Hey, you can do whatever you want. I guess it's good that there are some people in the world who are just fine paying 3 times as much as they need to for ammo, it keeps me in once-fired brass! :D

I can buy cheap lead reloads at gunshows for just a little more than it costs for me to roll my own. The gunshow reloads are plenty good for the plinking I do with 38spec

You shoot rounds that other people have reloaded?!:uhoh:

Hey, you can do whatever you want. I guess it's good that there are some people in the world who are just fine paying 3 times as much as they need to for ammo, it keeps me in once-fired brass

Sounds good to me.

Since I pay about $7.75 for fifty rounds at gun shows, by the case, that puts your computation of the true value of a box at between $2.58 and $2.59.

Tell you what, I'll give you twice what you say the value is, I'll give you $5.18 per box, and I'll take all you're capable of producing. That way, not only will you make all kinds of money, but I'll get an even bigger break on ammo prices, and you can have all the brass back.

Why won't anyone take me up on these fine offers? :evil:

You shoot rounds that other people have reloaded?!

... I won't !

True Story: About 12 years ago I had a friend who was an avid shooter and reloader. We always met at the range and I used to shoot a lot of his re-loads. He usually reloaded wad cutters for target practice. Whenever I had some brass I gave it to him and as an exchange he always gave me some ammo. I had a SW 686 and he shot a Colt Python, nickle plated and I think 4" barrel.

Well, one day he was standing about 3 feet besides me when we were shooting and "boom" he had a blown up Python in his hand. We first looked at each other :uhoh: and then we looked at his Python :eek:. Now, after all this years, I almost think it was funny because it was so unreal.

There were no injuries, but the Python was damaged beyond repair. Later in the evening on that same day I decided to buy my own re-loading equipment and I have never looked back. I have never shot anyone else reloads ( well almost ) since and I do not load for other people either.

PS: It was never clear what caused the blow up, but we suspected a double charge of Bullseye under a 148gr Wad cutter. I do not remember if the case used was a .38 Special or .357 Magnum.

It was never clear what caused the blow up, but we suspected a double charge of Bullseye under a 148gr Wad cutter. That harley is I would say the most common KB cause ... a small load of fast powder leaves way too much space in a case and makes a double charge ... awful easy!! Same thing happened not once, but twice at my old club years back .... 158 FWC in one case ... 158 SWC the other.

''Victims'' of destruction? ..... one was 6" 686 .... the other a M19 .. both wrecked!!:(

"You shoot rounds that other people have reloaded?!"

There's a difference between shooting ammo that your buddy, Joe "The Drunken Monkey" Sixpack has reloaded and what a production reloader at a gun show has done, especially considering that they're licensed, bonded, and insured (at least they should be if they're smart).

I started reloading,back in the early 60's,with a tong tool..It worked but was slow as sin..Got a Lyman Spartan "C" press and was happy for a while.. Moved up to a Rockchucker,loved the ease sizing those rifle cases,and was still ok..In the 90's I tried a Lyman T mag and have never looked back..Shoot more handgun than rifle and the turrent is much quicker
but still in total control..Perhaps a progressive would be much faster but I like too many different calibers and the time and expense to change calibers would be too much..
Besides I guess I am just too old for a major change..
By the way most of my guns have never seen a factory round and they have never complained..

Jammer Six, because it requires a special FFL to sell ammo that one loads. I don't have one, so hope you don't mind if I pass on your kind offer.

I shoot roughly 2k 45acp, 1k 44Mag, a boatload of 223 and 308, as well as a few other calibers every month. While I can afford to buy the factory ammo to support my habit, I fail to see the reason to overpay for an inferior product.

Jammer Six, because it requires a special FFL to sell ammo that one loads. I don't have one, so hope you don't mind if I pass on your kind offer.

Ah, that explains it. I had no idea.

While I can afford to buy the factory ammo to support my habit, I fail to see the reason to overpay for an inferior product.

Neither can I, which was the point I was trying to make. Had I been able to get anyone to take me up on my offer, I assure you, it wouldn't have been for the prices I was offering, in spite of the claims of great savings.

All the savings leave at least one major factor out, and my time (especially my recreational time) has fairly substantial value.

It's the reason I don't reload.

Had I known that there was another valid reason, I would have approached my point differently. My approach consisted simply of the claim that everyone's time has value, perhaps even more so when spent on a hobby, and that no one was going to be willing to sell me that time.

Therefore, once the time is counted, there is no financial savings in reloading.

There are many valid reasons for reloading, but financial savings isn't one of them.

That's the only point I was trying to make.

Therefore, once the time is counted, there is no financial savings in reloading.
Incorrect, or at least not necessarily correct.

There is always a cost associated with using time, opportunity cost that is. But so long as the activity you choose is your best perceived use, your opportunity cost is exceeded by the gains from the activity and you benefit on net.

Put another way, what do you give up to reload? If it's time with your kids or some other worthwhile activity that's worth a lot to you, maybe it's a bad deal. But if it's time sitting in front of the TV or computer (guilty your honor!) then it's probably a good deal.

Plus, despite what some might expect, reloading is fun!

Ah yes, opportunity cost rears its ugly head from the deepest bowels of micro-econ.

I really enjoy reloading and find it very relaxing. As with any other hobby (hunting, fishing, shooting, gardening, nookie), I don't account for time spent when deciding to participate.

"Therefore, once the time is counted, there is no financial savings in reloading."

You know, I've always heard this said.

And I've always said Bull:cuss: .

Want to know why?

Your time has a monetary value only if someone either PAYS you for it, or if you're running some sort of project that garners you money.

When I get home from work in the evening after an 8 hour day, my company doesn't keep paying me.

Since I'm not earning a wage during the hours that I'm home, that has no intrinsic monetary value. Any value that can be assigned to that time would have to be through amortizing my working time wages across the 16 hours I'm not working.

Say I go buy 10 boxes of .45 ACP for $10 a box. That's $100 plus tax, or roughly 2 hours salary.

I can reload the same amount of ammo for less than half that.

So yeah, there is one HELL of a financial savings.

Where some people do NOT realize any savings, however, is in that their shooting frequency goes up the more they reload, so costs tend to actually average out in the long run.


While your "hobby" time may be even more "valuable," that's not a value that can be measured financially unless you're doing something, like reloading, that can actually save you money. The value of a hobby time is psychological, not fiscal.

The reason I like the Lee turrent press is its a entry level press, under $100 with the carbide dies, and you can change calibers by just changing out the turrent disk. I don't do mass quantites and my reloads are just for practice and they fill that need perfectly. I just wanted the non-reloaders to know that they could reload safely and for a very small cash layout. Also most any reloader would be glad to help a newbie get started.

Time value of money--I can reload 100 rounds of 9mm faster than I can drive to Wal-Mart and buy the cheap stuff. On my cheap single-stage press.

Now, if you drive and buy a case...I can't reload a whole case that fast...

The 9mm I reload uses high-end hollowpoints (Speer Gold Dots) running as fast (or faster) than premium self-defense ammo. And it costs me about what cheap surplus 9mm costs.

Hey, reloading is NOT for everyone. If you don't care about the cost savings--which are real--and would rather spend the time shooting than reloading, that's great. I was that way for the first decade or two of my shooting "career".

Then I discovered reloading....

The biggest reason I do it is that it increases my satisfaction and enjoyment in the sport.

When I tune the ammo to run just the way I want it...my shooting satisfaction is multiplied. Its a whole new level of enjoyment.

Dillon SDB progressive. Great press and you don't have to graduate to anything. It's what I started on and still use.

Let me chip in once more ..... .454 Casull!!

You sure don't wanna keep on buying factory stuff ... that's for sure!!!:p

I'm completely clueless as to how reloading works really. I remember doing shotgun shells a few times with my grandpa up in the attic when I was like 8 years old (and I'm 23 now).. but I remember very little.

Once you get the basic equipment down... what's it cost/involve to bring another caliber into your set? I ask because I have developed this strange habbit in my 2 years of gun collecting to keep buying different calibers. 9 guns, 9 calibers. Reloading wasn't something I thought of when I just had 9mm and .45ACP, .223 and 7.62x39... but now that I've got something in .308 and 8x56 I'm thinking I should look into it. Of course, hand-cooked loads for .223 would be fun as well as 7.62x54, and cranking out .40S&W and .45ACP for my outdoor range use could be cost effective and a relaxing time passer. For those of you counting 12 gauge is the other caliber.... and how much more equipment does that involve? Maybe if I can cook up some good slug rounds for it I'll actually take the thing out more than once a year!

Sorry for the really newbie questions... but the thread got my interest going.

Once you have the basic setup--press, scale, priming tool, etc.

Then the incremental cost of a new caliber is the cost of the dies. Call it $20-$50.

And I've always said Bull .

Want to know why?

Your time has a monetary value only if someone either PAYS you for it, or if you're running some sort of project that garners you money.


We're going to have to agree to disagree.

If your statement was true, and I offered you twice as much money than you would spend reloading, anyone would jump at the chance, particularly if they happen to enjoy reloading.

Question: why doesn't anyone jump at this unique and wonderful opportunity?

The only other factor besides hard costs (which I'll double) is the reloader's time.

Answer: because everyone's time has value, whether you're on the clock or not, and whether you choose to ignore it or not.

When time is counted, no one here can afford to reload my brass.

Including me.

Jammer Six, lots of people jump at your "wnderful opportunity". They're the ones who have a federal license to sell ammo the manufacture, as well as distribution and liability insurance to cover their tail when you do something stupid and blame them for it.

Remember when you said,

Ah, that explains it. I had no idea.

Looks like that's still true. :rolleyes:

"because everyone's time has value"

As I endeavored to explain, Jammer, value can't simply be counted in fiducary terms.

Tell me, when you have your keister parked on the couch watching football, how much are you EARNING, in cold, hard dollars? The answer is nothing, unless you're a Nielsen viewer.

If, however, you spend time reloading, you can say that your time is worth the money that you SAVED over purchasing new ammunition.

"If your statement was true, and I offered you twice as much money than you would spend reloading..."

That's a big IF, predicated on your offering to PAY me for my time. At that point, my time has a monetary value. If you don't open your wallet to pay me, though, my time doesn't have a monetary value, and we're right back to what I said in my original message -- that the time you spend reloading isn't worth anything in monetary terms because you're not being paid for it.

The fact that you are saving money does give your time value, however.


"Question: why doesn't anyone jump at this unique and wonderful opportunity?"

Lots of reasons.

Not aware of the benefits of tailoring.

Not willing to make the initial monetary cost for the press and other accoutrements.

Not able to reload due to living situation (partner unwilling, no place to put the press, etc.)

Doesn't shoot enough to make that initial investment worth the hassle in either startup dollars or time to learn the process.

Scared that they'll do something wrong and hurt themselves.

Those are just a few of the many reasons why people don't make the jump into reloading.

And yes, the time taken away from family or other duties is certainly a consideration for some people. When I was in college I didn't reload because I was a lot more interested in earning my degree than I was in shooting regularly. But, once again, as I was unemployed, my time had no financial value, only a more esoteric value.

In your original scenario, you offered to purchase someone else's reloads. That immediately assigns a monetary value to someone else's time.

Unfortunately, that's no longer a hobby venture, that's a business agreement, and unless you're a good friend of mine, I look at you as a profit center whereby I will assign an arbitrary value to my time above and beyond the raw value of the reload.

A few of the things that would be factored in to the price of any ammo that I sold you would be wear and tear on my press, shipping of the components (either to me or picked up by me), electricity, heat, and air conditioning for my reloading room, break times, refreshments (I can easily drink a 12 pack of Diet Coke for ever 250 rounds I reload), the annoyance value of you being too lazy to reload your own ammo, etc.

As I said before, it's a hobby when you do it for yourself, and as such, your time has no true monetary value.

When you do it for someone else, though, that's a different story. That's a business.

Yeah I gotta start reloading.......a few problems tho...
1) no time(2 jobs,1house,1wife,1 16yr old.)
2)no space(EVERY room is full)
3)at IDPA ,where I do most of my shooting ,we need to shoot Winclean.....
But the idea and cost savings are apealing.......I'd like to taylor my own loads...someday.......
When my 16 yr old goes to college...........her room becomes the Gun Room!!!(of course after paying for college my gun fund will be tiny)pray for grants and loans and scolarships......:cool:

TonyB

You do not need much room to get started. My dad got his start with a Lee handpress loader (updated version of Lyman 310 tool). I got my start by attaching my press to a board which I then C-Clamped to my desk (the same desk my computer sat on) when I reloaded. Either way, you could get everything you need into a milk crate. You won't be cranking out hundreds of rounds an hour, but you can start working up specific loads for your guns.

Chris

Now that MTNBRK and the Mrs. have a new born, he's multitasking...

His loading set up is currently attached to a board clamped across the day crib...

He did have his rifle cleaning vise clamped across the head of the day crib, but the ammonia in the powder solvent was irritating the baby's eyes... :D

LOL. I can't wait until she can take over the loading chores for me.

"honey, can you go load 200 38's for daddy please?"


Chris

Tell me, has she learned to like the vibratory cleaner yet?

You'd think she'd like that. Lord knows it would help with the burping chores, too...

"load 200 38s for Daddy..."

And her reply?

"You can't afford my rates, Old Man!" :D

Tell me, has she learned to like the vibratory cleaner yet

You just gave me a good idea. Her bouncy seat (http://www.epinions.com/kifm-review-7E4A-40147DE-3A255501-prod1#) has a vibration function. All I have to do is give her a bucket of brass and polishing media to hold while in it. :evil:

Chris

And her reply?

"You can't afford my rates, Old Man!"

That made my day.

:D

This is a real good thread, both informative, and side splitting funny on this
last page.
I personally don't hand load,but if that's what they enjoy and get satisfaction from, than i say go for it. I may at some time decide to do
some myself, but my hobby is making grips for .45 autos right now. I
enjoy making something that is both functional and satisfying, as well as
being unique. some people might say,''you can get these for x amount of
dollars at a supply house, why make them''. My answer to that is''i make
them, and they are the only ones like them. I think hand loading gives a
person the same feeling, their loads are tailored to them and they derive
satisfaction from knowing they did it themselves. that's a hell of a good
feeling, especially when you crank off the first round, and it' in the 10 ring.
I get that same feeling when i put a set of my grips on one of my 45's and
i just know i'll have better control on the range, and hopefully put the first
round in the 10 ring.
Thanks & ''be safe''

SILENT ONE

everyone's time has value, whether you're on the clock or not, and whether you choose to ignore it or not.

So if, for example, you make $100/hr at your chosen profession and I ask you to change my oil (~30 min), and you said "sure, no problem, $50 + material costs" you'd NOT be offended when I laughed? Or if, for example, your spouse asks you to change your child's diaper (~5 minutes) and you say "sure, no problem, $8.33 + material costs" you'd not be offended when your spouse smacks you with a frying pan?

Do you shop for food at the grocery store or pay someone to shop for you (and someone else to cook it) or eat at restaurants only? Do you drive yourself around or pay a driver? Furthermore, why are you "spending" valuable time at the range when you could be doing something productive instead? You could be renting out your guns (and getting paid!) instead of wasting opportunity....

100 rounds Power Pistol/Gold Dot "premium" .357mag, buying components from the gun shop in small quantities= $13
100 rounds CCI Gold Dots = $50 + shipping (Natchez)...saved ~$37
100 rounds CCI Gold Dots, gun shop = $85... I just saved $72, don't get paid nearly that amount per hour, and can even take two hours to do the loading and STILL come out way ahead. Or I just paid off my O-press and dies and will start to "profit" on the next 100 I load.

.38spl/158gr and 9mm/115gr and most "Practice" ammo won't save much money (less that minimum wage, for sure) but full-house .357 and 10mm and things like decent .32ACP and 380Auto and anything "Premium JHP" you WILL save...even over mail order. Hydra Shoks and Gold Dots and Golden Sabers are usually $15-$20 per 20 round box at a shop...50AE and 454 Casull are even more.

Speaking of wasting time (and money) how much is reading this (and possibly posting a follow-up) "costing" you? :evil:

Or if, for example, your spouse asks you to change your child's diaper (~5 minutes) and you say "sure, no problem, $8.33 + material costs" you'd not be offended when your spouse smacks you with a frying pan?


You know, if you stopped spending so much money on diapers, you could probably afford to have someone else slave over a hot reloader for you. :neener:

your spouse asks you to change your child's diaper (~5 minutes) and you say "sure, no problem, $8.33 + material costs

If it takes you 5 minutes to change a diaper, you need to get smacked with the frying pan. ;)

You should charge more for those times when the baby, especially a boy, uses you for target practice. :evil:

Edit to add: How did we get from reloading to changing diapers? To get back on track, at what age would you suggest introducing a youngster to reloading? Which calibers would you start with? :p

Chris

at what age would you suggest introducing a youngster to reloading? Which calibers would you start with? I'd let them watch and explain each and every step to them as soon as they are old enough to express an interest.

When they were strong enough to pull the handle I'd let them do something simple like belling the mouth on pistol calibers.

As soon as they can read they can help you sort brass by headstamp. It would be a good way of teaching them to notice little details. you could even mix calibers and have them sort all of them out.

I have found that younger children really like the feel and the clinkling sound of empty cases. Fo a good laugh throw in an old .50 BMG in a big box of your .38s or whatever caliber you shoot the most. Just keep a straight face when they try to figure out what it is.

Smaller children also seem to like the "separating the cases from the media" after polishing in the tumbler or vibratory.

Just make sure they keep their hands clean and away from their mouths.

Hey Chris,

Why don't you let the little one go "free range?"

That way you'd have more money to spend on powder and bullets...

But, your carpet cleaning bills would be horrendous. :)

It's too bad baby guano doesn't have similar characteristics as bat guano. That could cut down on his component costs.

I don't reload because I'm worried about powder getting on things even after everything is put away. I would like a more dedicated area than what I have available now.

I've not found the powder to be a problem. I do, however, find the spent primers to be a problem. The Lee Turret Press doesn't handle spent primers all that well, and a lot of them end up on the floor, only to be found when I go to the basement in my bare feet to put laundry in the washer...

only to be found when I go to the basement in my bare feet to put laundry in the washer... OUCH!! I have had an embedded primer in the foot more than once ... can be painful. :p

Here's Mike .. with both feet well ''impregnated'' with primers (open-side up - they always sit open side up!!) ........


http://www.bedford.net/design/images/smilies/mindance.gif

I too have had to hunt down the elusive spent primer when it escapes my Lee turrent press... it is amazing how far they can roll.

I started about two years ago, initially for 9mm. Now I'm doing .45, .38,.357, .32, .223, .30 carbine, .303, and .30.06. Will also get a set of dies for 8mm, 7.62x54, and 7.62x25 as they show up on auction sites. My reloads are all I shoot anymore. I want to have the control/capacity to shoot even if the winds of politics change in the future. This surplus ammo will not last forever.
rk