[NelsErik]

First, I know nothing about revolvers.

Yesterday, my dad gave me 5,000 pieces of new .44 magnum brass along with a bunch of bullet molds and I am trying to choose which gun to get. I will at first just be using the gun for target practice, but eventually for hunting, and self defense on my 4 month hiking trip in Alaska with my brother.

I am trying to figure out which gun to get. My dad has and swears by the Smith and Wesson Model 29. I haven't even started looking yet, so I have no idea what I am talking about.

Any suggestions on where to start? I know Smith and Wesson has the big N-Frame and Ruger has the Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk, can someone point me in the right direction? This gun will see almost entirely handloads and mostly hardcast bullets. The loads will probably run the entire spectrum from the lightest to the heaviest loads.

As always, any help is greatly appreciated!

[captain awesome]

never had a model 29 (dirty harry will vouch for that one though:D), but I do have a Desert Eagle(not a revolver) and a Colt Anaconda in 44 mag. Both of mine are superbly accurate, reliable and fun to shoot. I have heard of timing issues with the Colts but haven't experienced any as of yet. Ruger also makes a redhawk which is a double action. It costs more than a blackhawk but those two are the most durable 44mags out there at least that i know of. It will handle any load you throw at it, they are big and heavy tanks though.

Do you want a single action or double action? Its really just personal preference. I would hit up a gun shop or two and see what you like, hold and handle them see what feels right to you. I don't know what their is in the way of gun shops up their in Payson, but their are quite a few decent one down here in Mesa.

[thomis]

The Ruger Super Blackhawk is probably your best bet price wise and durability. The two most popular barrel lengths are 5 ish and 7.5". The Smith and Wessons are exceptional guns but I'm not certain they can handle some of the highest pressure loads that you'd like to handload for bear protection.
The Ruger's can handle anything you can load as long as you're within the pressure specs.
I believe Magnum Research, the same company that makes the Desert Eagle also makes a "BFR" which stands for Biggest Finest Revolver. They are tanks just as much or more than the Rugers but for the extra money you pay, you sacrifice some aesthetics and gain minute amounts of additional accuracy.
A new Ruger SB can run as low as $430 from a reputable dealer.

[NelsErik]

We usually just pick everything we need up at J&G in Prescott, but they don't have a large revolver selection. Does the Pistol Parlor in Mesa have a good revolver selection?

At this point I don't know which I would want, SA or DA, I know I don't want DAO! With a DA action, you can just cock the hammer back for a SA pull, correct? Is there a downside to this? Dad says that the SA were always more accurate, is this true?

My dad tells me that some guns don't have large enough, or is it long enough, cylinders for some of the long cast bullets that he likes, is that a regular issue? My dad hasn't bought a new gun in probably 15 years, so I assume some things may have changed.

I think I want at least a 5.5" barrel, probably longer. We have a very long range out our back door of Dad's house and will probably try for relatively long range accuracy.

[ArmedBear]

Ask yourself a simple question: WWED? What would Elmer do?

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/cb/e9/1571572651-books-resized200.jpg

S&W .44 aka Model 29

[Guiding101]

Ruger Super RedHawks and BlackHawks are great guns, that can be loaded extremely hot if the shooter decides he needs it. I have a couple of each and really enjoy both models. All those years of guiding I always carried a 7.5" Ruger Redhawk and can tell you that it is a very well made firearm. I bought a Tarus Raging Bull a couple of weeks ago, and really enjoy shooting it. It tames the recoil quite a bit more than the Rugers, and for what ever reason, I can shoot tighter groups with it than any of my Rugers. However I do feel the Rugers are a better built gun as far a reliability is concerned.

[captain awesome]

i was just in pistol parlor the other day and am sad to say they have a few but they have at least four times as many semi autos. they carry mostly rossi and taurus with a few rugers and smiths. not many 44s as i recall, and they are mostly all new. Their prices are pretty decent though if you can find what you want, they will order it in for you too.

I really don't think accuracy suffers from a DA/SA revolver, at least I have never noticed a difference . And yes you can fire a double action in single action mode as long as its not a DAO. He might be referring to DAO for the accuracy issues. It is difficult to fire anything in double action mode accurately. There is an other place called AJI in Apache Junction that usually has a few good used ones. then you can always try sportsman's warehouse, they usually have a pretty good selection of new revolvers just to check them out

[ArmedBear]

Keith notwithstanding, I really do like my 629 Mountain Gun. It's not too heavy or bulky, for what it is, and it shoots very well.

[Legionnaire]

I will at first just be using the gun for target practice, but eventually for hunting, and self defense on my 4 month hiking trip in Alaska with my brother.That's a tall order for a single revolver. While anything can be used for target practice, I'd opt for two different guns for hunting and self defense. For the latter, I'd want a four-inch or less DA revolver ... maybe a four-inch Redhawk, or three-inch 29 (although I'd prefer the stainless 629). For a hunting gun, I'd want a 5.5-inch or longer barrel and the ability to mount a scope. Revolver could be either SA or DA, although I'd favor DA. If I had to go double duty with a single revolver, it would be a 5.5" Redhawk.

For a strictly target gun, I'd probably go with a Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk SA.

[NelsErik]

My Dad has his own range and we do a lot of shooting. I plan on firing several hundred, maybe thousands, of rounds through the gun before I take it hunting.

My brother and I are planning on a 4 month hike in the Alaskan back country next spring and I will use the gun there for self defense against whatever comes our way. My brother lost a leg in the service, and the main purpose of the trip is for us to get to know one another again. I couldn't serve because I have large piece of titanium in my lower leg. Our other three brothers and my dad all served, which leaves me as the odd guy, which is why we are going on the trip. We will be going in to the back country and are not particularly worried about weight, my brother is like a pack horse. We won't have a use for both a short and long barreled .44, at least I don't think both are needed. My main concern is to be proficient with the gun before I have to use it in self defense.

[hydraulicman]

with 5000 cases you should be able to become a good shot with it. lol

I'd tool up my 550 ASAP! if someone gave me that much brass:D

[Blue Brick]

RedHawk

[BushyGuy]

I would get the Super Redhawk .44 mag with scope mounted on top of it.

[MJR007]

I like my redhawk a lot. I don't like the grip pin on it...Changing grips is proving hard.
There are other was to serve. Spend some weekends at the VA helping out. I know when I was there I would have like to have talked a little hunting with someone.

Good luck.

[Stainz]

The Remington .44 Magnum round was devised in 1954-5 by Elmer Keith, et al, to be used with the S&W .44 Magnum revolvers - later to be known as the 29. To say a 29 - even an early one - is incapable of firing true SAAMI specification .44 Magnums, like a Ruger can, is being disingenuous. Modern - ie, current production 29 & 629 variants - have the benefit of many strenth/longevity improvements as well. Just because a Ruger product is rated above that in pressure - to some mythical '+P' rating - is no reason for a S&W .44 Magnum to aspire to such. If there is a critter in North America that can't be felled with a standard .44 Magnum, I haven't heard of it.

Below you'll see my two current production 629-6's, a 4" & 6" - both wooden-gripped - and suitable for mild .44 Magnums - or .44 Russians and Specials.

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_3435.jpg

Change the grips to the Hogue made-for-S&W 'X-frame' or .500 Magnum grips - with their backstrap covering & recoil absorbing material - and they become real .44 Magnums. The 4" is a great protective sidearm - with emergency-use instinctive double action 'just squeeze the trigger' capability. The 6", also with a scope rail, rings, & scope, makes a great hunting revolver.

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_3335.jpg

There are other .44 Magnum choices, of course. I just prefer S&Ws. If I had to have a Ruger, I'd look at a Ruger Super Redhawk, if a 7.5"-er was acceptable. If you want a snubby - the Ruger 2.5" SRH is called the Alaskan. The SRH has an easier lockwork set to 'improve' than the Redhawk - and is even 'stronger'. Good luck with your quest!

Stainz

[NelsErik]

hydraulicman

with 5000 cases you should be able to become a good shot with it. lol

I'd tool up my 550 ASAP! if someone gave me that much brass

I got a Dillion 1050 with Autodrive and 10 different dies for Christmas!

[nulfisin]

No offense, but if you don't know about revolvers, you should at least borrow something more mild than a 44 to start with. It's not especially difficult to learn to shoot a revolver competently -- including a 44 -- but it's important to start with something you can control. A 22 or 38 sp would fit the bill. Or buy 100 cases of 44 sp, use the lightest load available, and practice with that.

[dairycreek]

http://www.ruger.com/products/redhawk/images/5026.jpg

Ruger Redhawk with 4.2" barrel. Redhawks come with longer cylinder which allows them to fire the super hot rounds such as that made by Garrett and Buffalo Bore. Just what you need if there is any possibility of bears.

[ljnowell]

No offense, but if you don't know about revolvers, you should at least borrow something more mild than a 44 to start with. It's not especially difficult to learn to shoot a revolver competently -- including a 44 -- but it's important to start with something you can control. A 22 or 38 sp would fit the bill. Or buy 100 cases of 44 sp, use the lightest load available, and practice with that. Why waste money on 44 spl? He can load 44 spl loads in magnum cases, same effect. Honestly, how do you know he cant handle a 44mag? He may have a 50ae Desert Eagle at home.

[NelsErik]

Well it looks like I should check out the Redhawk.

I have shot my Dad's .357, .44 Mag, his favorite handgun - his Premeire Freedom Arms .22lr with magnum and match cylnders. I just have never owned or even cleaned a revovler.

[kludge]

Ruger Redhawk!

[Arkansas Paul]

I'd go with a Ruger.
That being said, those Smiths that Stainz posted are GORGEOUS.

[BCRider]

I'm a big S&W fan thanks to my .38's and .357's. ALso I've shot some 29's and 629's. While I like them I read about how with a lot of shooting they go out of time and require servicing on a regular basis. So I find I'm drawn to the Ruger Redhawk which seems to suffer from this to a lesser degree.

But your requirement to take it hunting but also to wear it as bush protection present conflicting requirements. For hunting you'd be wanting a longer barrel and mounts for a low power telescopic sight. That pretty much yells "Super Redhawk" or "Super Blackhawk" with the longer barrel option. But for wearing on your belt as a last ditch defense I'm seeing either a 629 or a regular Redhawk with a 4/4.2 inch barrel to allow for quicker draws in a hurry and so that it doesn't get in your way while hiking. If you give in to the need for two guns to cover all these situations then I'd go for the S&W for your belt or harness holster just because it's at least a little lighter and more compact. But go for the Super XXX Ruger for your scoped hunting revolver.

There's another option. There's some nice compact lever guns chambered in .44Mag. Perhaps go with the short barrel revolver for defense and general target shooting and go for the short 16 inch carbine length lever gun in .44Mag for small to medium deer and other smaller game for hunting. Rossi has such a gun;
http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=172&category=8&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

I've handled one but not shot it. They are compact and light. Much like a shoulder mounted handgun. I ended up with a 20 inch round barrel version of this rifle for my cowbly action shooting and it's proven to be very reliable. And with my recent action work to smoothen the operation it's even better.

[rswartsell]

From what I have been able to get from your post, here are some things to consider;

The .44 mag is a full blown "outdoor" cartridge, sufficient for hunting or "wildlife control". Combat or "self defense" revolvers see significant advantages in shorter barrels and lighter weight for handling and carry purposes, and probably reach their zenith of utility for purpose in the .357 mag.

In assuming you want the additional power of the .44 mag (for very good reason) for hunting or bear defense, the compromises of short barrels and lighter weight make little sense unless you are an every ounce counts backpacker who just knows .357 mag isn't enough. Otherwise the discordant combination of an "outdoor" cartridge on a "combat" (combating humans) frame isn't likely to result in a zen like harmony or your long term happiness with your decision. You also lose some of the power and performance that you are paying a premium for with such a decision.

If you are new to shooting revolvers, some things to know. Double action is never less than single action because by definition it gives you a choice of inherently more accurate single action mode (because the critical to accuracy trigger pull is shorter and lighter) or if occasion warrants, double action (just keep pulling the trigger, no cocking needed and time and follow up shots are of the essence). More choices are never less than less choices. You generally pay more for this.

Brand differences; be aware of 2 factors, potential power and refinement. Hands down Ruger engineered their handguns for power, by frame design, cylinder length etc, they set the standard. Yes, Taurus made the Raging Bull but they also are less likely to meet the quality and longevity standards of the "big 3" Colt, S&W and Ruger. Smaller boutique manufacturers like Freedom Arms will meet any standards but make your bank account cry. They are also single action only. S&W is also a competitor in the extreme power market, but in a new frame (wisely in my estimation), the mighty X frame in .460 S&W mag and S&W .500.

For refinement S&W has been setting revolver standards for over 100 years and pioneered the .44 mag in 1955. The "latest and greatest" of the extreme power loads commercially available exceed the S&W cylinder length and you would too trying to duplicate them with handloads. That is not to say that you can't get REALLY powerful loads worked up on your bench for the S&W 29 or 629. You will also get trigger pull and double action performance par excellance, you seriously need some experience with revolvers to appreciate the nuance of timing, trigger and hammer that add up to the S&W experience. Competitive revolver shooters (for speed or precision) almost without exception shoot S&W now that Colt has hung up the DA revolver. Expect to pay for the nuance too. I do NOT agree that S&W .44 mags have ever proven in ANY way fragile or delicate. Sounds like internet bull puckey to me.

So there is a matrix of choices, rent examples of each you are interested in and shoot them. The road ahead will then become clear.

[WVMountainBoy]

Super Blackhawk, that is all. :)

[RugRev]

Aside from Taurus, S&W and Ruger if you can find one consider the Dan Wesson and Colt Anaconda, also.

[NelsErik]

Super Redhawk w/7.5" Barrel (http://www.ruger.com/products/superRedhawkStandard/specSheets/5501.html)

This is the gun that my Dad is pushing me to get.

As far as a shorter gun for self-defense goes my brother will have a large caliber rifle with him and I would rather be very proficient with one gun, than less than with two. I think the minimum length barrel that I can hunt with is 6" in Arizona, but I'm not sure. I need to find the rule in Alaska too, unless they let you carry whatever whenever.

Is there a gun that is more suited to shooting hardcast bullets than others and are all the twist rates the same? The molds that I currently have all appear to be for heavier bullets.

If I look at used guns, what are the things that I should look for on the Ruger?

[harmonic]

My vote would also be for the Ruger. I have two 29-2s and have owned numerous Rugers. The Ruger Redhawk/Super Redhawk has massive locking points when compared to the 29 and makes it much stronger. Now, if you were buying multiple guns, I'd say get one of each. But if you're only buying one all purpose weapon, go with the Ruger.

Personally, I'd make it a Super Blackhawk. Virtually all of my aimed fire is single action anyway. Plus, they're easier to work on.

If I look at used guns, what are the things that I should look for on the Ruger?

This is from a sticky on this forum re how to buy a used revolver:



Check the cylinder play.

1) With the gun UNLOADED (check for yourself!), close the action.

2) Thumb the hammer back, and while pulling the trigger, gently lower the hammer all the way down while keeping the trigger back - and KEEP holding the trigger once the hammer is down. (You've now put the gun in "full lockup" - keep it there for this and most other tests.)

3) With the trigger still back all the way, check for cylinder wiggle. Front/back is particularly undesirable; a bit of side to side is OK but it's a bad thing if you can wiggle it one way, let go, and then spin it the other way a fraction of an inch and it stays there too. At the very least, it should "want" to stop in just one place (later, we'll see if that place is any good). The ultimate is a "welded to the frame" feeling.

Check the cylinder gap.

4) Still holding the trigger at full lockup, look sideways through the barrel/cylinder gap. If you can get a credit card in there, that ain't good...velocity drops rapidly as the gap increases. Too tight isn't good either, because burnt powder crud will "fill the gap" and start making the cylinder spin funky. My personal .38snubbie is set at .002, usually considered the minimum...after about 40 shots at the range, I have to give the front of the cylinder a quick wipe so it spins free again. I consider that a reasonable tradeoff for the increased velocity because in a real fight, I ain't gonna crank 40 rounds out of a 5-shot snub .

If you're eyeballing it, you'll have to hold it up sideways against an overhead light source.

Checking the timing.

5) You really, REALLY want an unloaded gun for this one. This is where the light comes in. With the gun STILL held in full lockup, trigger back after lowering the hammer by thumb, you want to shine a light right into the area at the rear of the cylinder near the firing pin. You then look down the barrel . You're looking to make sure the cylinder bore lines up with the barrel. Check every cylinder - that means putting the gun in full lockup for each cylinder before lighting it up.

You're looking for the cylinder and barrel holes to line up perfectly, it's easy to eyeball if there's even a faint light source at the very rear of both bores. And with no rounds present, it's generally easy to get some light in past where the rims would be.

Checking the bore.

(We're finally done with that "full lockup" so rest your trigger finger. )

6) Swing the cylinder open, or with most SAs pull the cylinder. Use the small flashlight to scope the bore out. This part's easy - you want to avoid pitting, worn-out rifling, bulges of any sort. You want more light on the subject than just what creeps in from the rear of the cylinder on the timing check.

You also want to check each cylinder bore, in this case with the light coming in from the FRONT of each hole, you looking in from the back where the primers would be. You're looking for wear at the "restrictions" at the front of each cylinder bore. That's the "forcing cone" area and it can wear rapidly with some Magnum loads. (Special thanks to Salvo below for this bit!)

Checking the trigger.

7) To test a trigger without dry-firing it, use a plastic pen in front of the hammer to "catch" it with the off hand, especially if it's a "firing pin on the hammer" type. Or see if the seller has any snap-caps, that's the best solution. Flat-faced hammers as found in transfer-bar guns (Ruger, etc) can be caught with the off-hand without too much pain .

SA triggers (or of course a DA with the hammer cocked) should feel "like a glass rod breaking". A tiny amount of take-up slack is tolerable, and is common on anything with a transfer bar or hammerblock safety.

DA triggers are subjective. Some people like a dead-smooth feel from beginning of stroke to the end, with no "warning" that it's about to fire. Others (myself included) actually prefer a slight "hitch" right at the end, so we know when it's about to go. With that sort of trigger, you can actually "hold it" right at the "about to fire" point and do a short light stroke from there that rivals an SA shot for accuracy. Takes a lot of practice though. Either way, you don't want "grinding" through the length of the stroke, and the final stack-up at the end (if any) shouldn't be overly pronounced.

Detecting Bad Gunsmithing:

8) OK, so it's got a rock-solid cylinder, a .002" or .003" gap, and the trigger feels great. Odds are vastly in favor of it being tuned after leaving the factory.

So was the gunsmith any good?

First, cock it, then grab the hammer and "wiggle it around" a bit. Not too hard, don't bang on it, but give it a bit of up/down, left/right and circular action with finger off trigger and WATCH your muzzle direction.

You don't want that hammer slipping off an overly polished sear. You REALLY don't want that It can be fixed by installing factory parts but that'll take modest money (more for installation than hardware costs) and it'll be bigtime unsafe until you do.

The other thing that commonly goes wrong is somebody will trim the spring, especially coil springs. You can spot that if you pull the grip panels, see if the spring was trimmed with wire cutters. If they get too wild with it, you'll get ignition failures on harder primers. But the good news is, replacement factory or Wolf springs are cheap both to buy and have installed.

Timing (test #5) is very critical...if that's off, the gun may not even be safe to test-fire. And naturally, a crappy barrel means a relatively pricey fix.

Cylinder gap is particularly critical on short-barreled and/or marginal caliber guns. If you need every possible ounce of energy, a tight gap helps. Some factory gaps will run as high as .006"; Taurus considers .007" "still in spec" (sigh). You'll be hard-pressed to find any new pieces under .004" - probably because the makers realize some people don't clean 'em often (or very well) and might complain about the cylinder binding up if they sell 'em at .002".

[257x50]

Ruger Bisley Vaquaro Stainless. 7 1/2 inch cut to 6. If you like single actions.

[chez323]

Ruger Super Blackhawk! Can't go wrong, I've got one with a 7 1/2 barrel that's a blast to shoot. Also have it's little brother in 357 magnum, both are of the 50th anniversary edition models........

[dovedescending]

man, sounds like a great trip.

[FoMoGo]

For woods protection I wouldnt want a single action, I would want something I could use under HIGH stress 1 handed and not worry about altering my grip for every shot.


Jim

[NelsErik]

dovedescending
man, sounds like a great trip.

Yes, it should be! This will be forth four month trip that I have taken with either one of my brothers or my dad. Last year my dad and I hiked from Moab, UT along the Colorado River to Hite, UT and then by boat to Page, AZ. I have done the Appalachian Trail, 4 months in the Minnesota/Canadian boundary waters in a canoe, 4 months in northern Montana, and 4 months in Canyonlands National Park.

I'm missing the lower half of my right fibula so these trips are getting tougher each time, but I'll keep going as long as I have the money and family to go with.

After Alaska, the entire family is going to the Frank Church-River of No Return Wilderness Area to find where our great, great Grand-dad had a trappers cabin... That should be a good trip!

[BOOM-BOOM]

NelsErik, How are you and your brother getting to Alaska? Flying or driving.

If your going to drive, how do you plan to get your revolvers there.. No revolvers allowed in Canada..... Just wondering...

[NelsErik]

Currently the plan is to take my Dad's Cessna 421, but will probably change. We have an uncle who has a small strip and house on the southern boarder.

[thomis]

It does sound like a great trip. I'm envious! Getting all of my siblings in one place is not easy.

Steer away from scoping it. Can you imagine trying to find a charging bear in a scope, even a low power one? Let alone trying to settle the crosshairs on it? Not me!

And for the record, I didn't mean to discount the S&W .44 mag models in any way. I said they were exceptional guns.
To mention the part about them not being perfectly suited for the heaviest and longest magnum loads is not "disingenuous" but rather factual. And about Elmer Keith and his contributions to the caliber... 22 grains of 2400 behind a 429421 250 grain cast bullet, I believe was his favorite carry load. I bet if he had gotten his hands on one of the new model super blackhawks during his development stage, he may have carried it over the model 29. Just sayin'.

Here's a great article on defensive shooting.. and bears... and revolvers...

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/031000.asp

[MJR007]

I also cast. My 7.5" redhawk will do great things with 95%ww/5%Sn 300g pills. Good luck to you.

[Legionnaire]

Can't go wrong with a Redhawk, but make mine a 5.5-inch. Mount is a Weigand "no-drill."

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35909&d=1221100809

Or a Super Blackhawk. I converted this one to a Bisley myself with parts from Midway.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=83549&d=1219544825

I just like the 5.5-inch barrel length.

[1858]

My vote is for a Redhawk rather than the Super Redhawk. I have a S&W 629 (.44 Mag), a Redhawk in .45 Colt and a Super Redhawk in .454 Casull. If I were buying another .44 Mag (not that I would), it'd be the Redhawk beyond any shadow of a doubt. Why the heck anyone would want to pack around that Super Redhawk with the 7-1/2" barrel is beyond me but to each their own. For hunting ... sure ... but for general duty such as backpacking ... not for me.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/revolvers/s&w/S&W_629.jpg

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/revolvers/redhawk/redhawk_45colt.jpg

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/revolvers/super_redhawk/srh_alaskan_01.jpg

Personally, I think that the SRH "Alaskan" is one of the best looking revolvers ever made. The SRH with either the 7-1/2" or 9-1/2" barrels ... not so much. If Ruger decided to offer an "Alaskan" with a 5" barrel as shown below ... I'd be first in line.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/revolvers/super_redhawk/srh_5inch.jpg

:)

[Magnumite]

Ditto the Redhawk. Brutal strong and accurate. With good handloads, mine will shooting into 3/4" at 50 yards and I have the target to prove it. A friend has an early Colt Anaconda and it shot factory CCI into about the same size groups. I'd also consider a 29/629 in a 6" barrel. Bought a DX when there were making them and they are sweet.

The Super Redhawk to me is more of a 454 and up caliber gun.

You can't go wrong with many of the good 44 Mags out there. Just match the gun to the purpose.