[qwert65]

I'm a little upset so I apologize if I come on strong. My mother and father live in harrodsburg KY (moved there from NJ about a year ago). This morning my mother found one of her goats killed. The goat had a stake driven completly through her. Needless to say my mother is very distraught. My father like me would like to "discuss" the matter with the SOB(s).

They would had to have walked about 50yds onto the property and crossed a 4' fence. The goats are on pasture no lumber around so def. not an accident. Animal control was called who called the police.

My question is for my father, he wants to know if he finds them on his property how far can he take it legally? I looked up the statute and it appears there is a defense of property allowed in KY. But practically is it allowed?

[KyJim]

I can't answer your question directly. I will point out Ky.Rev.Stat 503.080 which states:
(1) The use of physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when the defendant believes that such force is immediately necessary to prevent:
(a) The commission of criminal trespass, robbery, burglary, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055, in a dwelling, building or upon real property in his possession or in the possession of another person for whose protection he acts; or
(b) Theft, criminal mischief, or any trespassory taking of tangible, movable property in his possession or in the possession of another person for whose protection he acts.
(2) The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable under subsection (1) only when the defendant believes that the person against whom such force is used is:
(a) Attempting to dispossess him of his dwelling otherwise than under a claim of right to its possession; or
(b) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary, robbery, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055, of such dwelling; or
(c) Committing or attempting to commit arson of a dwelling or other building in his possession.
(3) A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
Physical force is authorized to prevent criminal mischief (vandalism) or ordinary theft, but deadly physical force is not. Deadly physical force is authorized only under the circumstances listed. A robbery means taking of property by physical force or threat of force. Burglary means entering a dwelling with intent to commit a felony.

I will repeat that deadly physical force is not authorized simply to protect from simple theft (done without physical force or threat of physical force) or criminal mischief. I do not believe protecting stock would be an instance where deadly force could be used.

But practically is it allowed?
Police and prosecutors have a lot of discretion and attitudes of the citizenry varies in different localities.

[bobelk99]

Even if it is a prize bull, deadly force is definitely a no-no to protect livestock.

[qwert65]

I'd like to clarify my first post. I'm not talking about gunning a guy down. More, is it legal to hold them for the police, physically or at gunpoint? If it physically escalated would self defense rules kick in or would it be considered aggression, ie holding for the police. This is a rural area and police would be at an absoulute minimum 20-30 minutes away.

KYJim- thats the statute I read, At least I know I looked it up properly. I was just hoping someone with a legal background or law enforcement could clarify.

[jonmerritt]

The killing of the livestock, in such a brutal manner. Can be taken as a threat to his families life. Look at how far they had to encroach onto the property, the needed planning to do such an act, and the act itself. This does not appear to be a random crime. Is there somebody that dislikes a person in your family?

[qwert65]

Well, they've only been there a little over a year. They keep to themselves(as we do in NJ) but get along with the neighbors. There was a hired man for my dads rental property who was stealing and got sent to jail. We talked it over and think thats a big jump for him. ie he's a lowlife but not that low.(plus why didn't he steal stuff? he is a thief)

[KyJim]

I was just hoping someone with a legal background or law enforcement could clarify. I don't think anyone can give you a definitive answer because the exact facts would play a part as well as the discretion of local police and prosecutors.