[hipoint]

Hey folks, long time lurker first time poster...

I own a decent size blueberry farm in north carolina, been mulling over different options for something quiet to get the deer with. I am perfectly legal to shoot the deer as a nuisance animal almost any time of the year (even out of season) with basically anything I want (within reason). My only concern is I do have neighbors and even though I am within my rights to use my 30-06 at 2 a.m. I want to be courteous and not wake up everyone in a 1/2 mile radius.

Cost is definitely an issue, and due to a wilder disposition when I was young I don't think I'll be able to pass the check for a suppressor. I've been seriously thinking about one of the "big bore" air rifles, but I don't think I have the capability to fill it to 3,000psi and I don't want to have to go to the welding shop everytime I need to recharge a tank (I go there enough just for welding supplies).

I really like the hi-point .45 carbine, but they keep pushing the release date back for it so I've kinda given up on it... Oh and please, I don't want to start another hi-point discussion, keep your opinion of their quality out of this thread, i've seen too many threads turn ugly about that :)

So, any opinions on something reasonably quiet, accurate, cheap, and enough power to drop a deer at under 100 yards? Like I said it doesn't have to be a "legal" hunting round, and for me they are nuisance animals and need to be controlled. Just something that is capable of killing at 100 yards and under is what I'm after...

Also does anyone have any real world experience using sub-sonic 9mm on larger game? I'm talking real world experience, not opinions on this one, basically have you shot at a hog or deer with SS 9mm and what happened. I'm not personally a fan of the 9mm, but if I can find some folks who have dropped game with a SS 9mm I might consider getting a carbine.

thanks guys and gals

[sonick808]

kel-tec sub2000 ? 9mm & .40S&W chamberings available; S&W, Glock, Beretta & Kel-Tec magazine configurations available (maybe sig also ? can't remember)

Folds in half, easy to tote around. $300 or so, but can be hard to find .I love mine, just an awesome practical piece, one of my very favorites of the whole collection

[dom1104]

A suppressor for a gun you do already have will most likely be cheaper than a new gun.

Just sayin.

[hipoint]

I really like the sub2000 I didn't know that they came in other chamberings, I thought they only came in rifle chambers. that's definitely an option, only if I can find some real world info about sub sonic 9mm or .40 cal. on medium size game.

I am leaning more towards a carbine, I wish I could find an affordable .45 carbine, but they seem to be non-existent. I like the .45 because it's sub sonic already, it's not a whisper, but I don't think it will get people out of bed and dialing 911 everytime I catch a critter in my crop.

[hipoint]

A suppressor for a gun you do already have will most likely be cheaper than a new gun.

Just sayin.
I'd love to get a suppressor, that would be the end all arguments best way to do it, but I highly doubt I would pass the background check to own one. I can legally own guns, but as far as anything else, I would be very surprised.

[35Rem]

Load some subsonic ammo for your 30-06.
Use a heavy bullet. Think 300 Whisper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Whisper

Obviously will have to re-zero your scope for the different load, but I think this will be your cheapest route.

[hipoint]

not a bad option, but my 30-06 is a remington 700. Not a top dollar piece of equipment, but not a hipoint either.

I'm looking for something to keep on the tractor or my 4 wheeler when doing chores as well as sniping at night.

One point is though that when doing my chores in the daytime, I really don't care to make a bunch of noise... something to consider, I'll definitely check out the 300 whisper. thanks

[19-3Ben]

1) Beretta CX4 Storm in .45acp (http://www.cx4storm.com/).
2) MecTech 1911 or Glock based .45acp carbine (http://www.mechtechsys.com/)
3) Marlin in .45-70govt. (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895.asp)

I would go with #3 personally. You load up something like a 400grain bullet at subsonic velocity and it'll still rock. You can load it to the same velocities as a .45acp. BUT, because it's nearly twice the weight, it'll pack a whole lot more punch. At 100 yards it'll still be a lot less iffy on deer than a .45acp.

[The_Pretender]

If you're a good shot, 22 mag to the dome.

[Wingnut13]

Well, if you reload... I assume you do since your thinking 300 whisper. Go with the .45-70, many carbines are available. Load up a few 525gr. sub-sonic like and have a ball. ~Wingnut13

[JohnKSa]

I've been seriously thinking about one of the "big bore" air rifles, but I don't think I have the capability to fill it to 3,000psi and I don't want to have to go to the welding shop everytime I need to recharge a tank (I go there enough just for welding supplies). Good thing you ruled this out for other reasons before getting one. The really powerful big-bore airguns are not at all quiet.

[mnrivrat]

If you're a good shot, 22 mag to the dome.

I think I will second this one - you need to look at a head shot with whatever your going use to be effective, and still relatively quiet . Put a scope on a good 22 mag and take only the proper head shot.

By the way - I hope you can either eat, or donate the meat here , or I would have to be much less favorable on the whole idea.

[fireman 9731]

Buy an H&R single shot in 45-70 and Lee classic loader. You can then download the ammo to near 22lr sound levels and still have plenty of wallop to take deer. Or if you don't want to get into reloading, most of the regular factory ammo is fairly light and much more quite than your average high powered rifle round.

I am also a fan of 22 mag and head-shot idea.

[Sam1911]

I'd love to get a suppressor, that would be the end all arguments best way to do it, but I highly doubt I would pass the background check to own one. I can legally own guns, but as far as anything else, I would be very surprised.

If you can legally buy guns, you can pretty much legally own an NFA Title II item like a suppressor. It's not like getting a Defense Department "Top Secret" certification ...

[pikid89]

30-30s not too loud and it can be pretty handy in somthin like a marlin 336 or a winchester m94...or maybe even a NEF handi rifle

[hipoint]

I've already got a .22 and a .22mag, both of them are a little too loud with regular ammo and I really have doubts about a .22 subsonic dropping a deer. I have dropped plenty of them here with my ruger 10/22 but always using the "quick shock" high velocity fragmenting ammo, they have never even taken a step. I've got some of the aquila sniper subsonic .22 rounds, but they just don't seem to be powerful enough to get good penetration through the skull.

It's the sonic crack that I'm worried about waking people up. One subsonic shot might or might not wake people up and they would very doubtfully even know why they woke up, but a sonic crack is pretty definitive.

My friend has got a .45 air rifle, he came over and shot it, it's not quiet, but not as loud as a high velocity .22 either.

I like the .45 acp, with cheapo rounds they just give a muffled pop and it really isn't very loud at all.


thanks for all your input folks

[hipoint]

Oh and of course we use all the meat... I wouldn't dream of wasting a deer. we share with our friends when our freezer is full. I don't like having to kill them, but nothing I've done yet keeps them off of our crops, i've tried everything affordable I can think of.

If I could just do something to keep them away then finding my "perfect" gun for the job wouldn't be an issue. I've tried everything that you've heard of I'm sure, from noise makers, to scents (human and animal), to electric fencing. They really like them blueberries i guess...

[lab28143]

If you're a good shot, 22 mag to the dome.
Im for the 22 mag idea as well. Personally iv seen it done with a 22lr

[hso]

I'd love to get a suppressor, that would be the end all arguments best way to do it, but I highly doubt I would pass the background check to own one. I can legally own guns, but as far as anything else, I would be very surprised.

You're obviously pretty ignorant about the requirements for a suppressor. If you can legally purchase a handgun from an FFL then you should be able to purchase a suppressor.

[mp510]

I'd love to get a suppressor, that would be the end all arguments best way to do it, but I highly doubt I would pass the background check to own one. I can legally own guns, but as far as anything else, I would be very surprised.
If you can legally buy guns, you can pretty much legally own an NFA Title II item like a suppressor. It's not like getting a Defense Department "Top Secret" certification ...
The BG process for NFA items really is not any more difficult at all.

However, the OP is out of luck. He does not have a legal purpose for owning the suppressor under NC State Law, so getting one approved will be impossible unless he makes a false statement on the form 4. NC only allows SOTs and people buying/building suppressors for R&D to own them.

[hipoint]

one more thing to clarify...

when suggesting things think about it this way... I want a gun that I can shoot 300 yards from YOUR house at 2 a.m. and not bother you... It might be a pipe dream, but I'm hoping someone here will give me an idea I have not thought of yet.

I appreciate everyone's input but a 30-30 or .22 mag would be far too loud, I might as well be using my .30-06.

I'll check in to getting a silencer, but I would be shocked if I were able to get one (age 16-21 was a pretty fun time though:) )

I do know how to make one, seen it done in person and it worked great ( 2 coke bottles) but not something I would want to have taped to my barrel when the game warden comes to check out my permits...

[W.E.G.]

+1 for the 45-70 with sub-sonic loads.

See:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26124

[Sam1911]

However, the OP is out of luck. He does not have a legal purpose for owning the suppressor under NC State Law, so getting one approved will be impossible unless he makes a false statement on the form 4. NC only allows SOTs and people buying/building suppressors for R&D to own them.

I ran across this as well when researching this question. I found that information, and responses to it that indicated that NC SOT3 FFLs were having no trouble legally selling silencers/suppressors to folks who wanted them. The long and the short of it is, the only way to know how it really works is to look up the nearest "Class 3" dealer and go ask them if they can legally sell you one.

Of course, you can call the DA's office or State Police and ask, but they'll just read you the text of the law. The dealers are the ones who do this day in and day out and they'll know the nuts & bolts of how it works in practice. And, they won't risk their license, livelihood, and freedom to make an illegal sale, either.

Regarding your past, if you don't have any felonies or other crimes on your record that would make it illegal for you to purchase and possess a gun, you really aren't going to have any trouble getting a Form 4 approved. Might run into trouble getting finding a chief law-enforcement official to sign the form for you, but there are ways around that.

If a .22 is definitely too loud, I don't see how you're going to meet both your sound and power requirements without a suppressor. Sure, subsonic ammo is part of the answer. But not all of it.

Good luck!

[hipoint]

+1 for the 45-70 with sub-sonic loads.

See:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26124
I have always admired that round. I have not had much luck even finding a gun to fire it though. what kind of prices would a person expect for one? again, i'm looking for a knockabout gun that I can keep on the tractor or 4 wheeler all day and not cry all night if it happened to get rained on.

alot to ask i know...

[hipoint]

I ran across this as well when researching this question. I found that information, and responses to it that indicated that NC SOT3 FFLs were having no trouble legally selling silencers/suppressors to folks who wanted them. The long and the short of it is, the only way to know how it really works is to look up the nearest "Class 3" dealer and go ask them if they can legally sell you one.

Of course, you can call the DA's office or State Police and ask, but they'll just read you the text of the law. The dealers are the ones who do this day in and day out and they'll know the nuts & bolts of how it works in practice. And, they won't risk their license, livelihood, and freedom to make an illegal sale, either.

Regarding your past, if you don't have any felonies or other crimes on your record that would make it illegal for you to purchase and possess a gun, you really aren't going to have any trouble getting a Form 4 approved. Might run into trouble getting finding a chief law-enforcement official to sign the form for you, but there are ways around that.

If a .22 is definitely too loud, I don't see how you're going to meet both your sound and power requirements without a suppressor. Sure, subsonic ammo is part of the answer. But not all of it.

Good luck!
no felonies, just stupid teenager stuff, simple possession, and a whole stack of vandalism charges for shooting up town with a paintball gun one drunken night...

I live in a very small town, so I don't think getting the sheriff to sign off would be a problem (here everyone knows each other). Just whether or not the BATF would like me too much.

definitely something to look into though. I've got a good gun shop up the road that I would be willing to bet could get me one if I could legally have it. I figured it would be out of the question unless you had a spotless record.

I really wish I could just tape some coke bottles on the end of my gun, but i'm trying to be a "good citizen" now and don't want any more trouble now that I'm older and more accountable for my actions.

seems silly that I can own a gun, but I can't duct tape a coke bottle to the end of it...

[kostyanj]

Duct taping a coke bottle really wouldn't do much in terms of suppression. It might actually make the gun louder and would slow down the bullet.

My recollection of physics is rusty, but maybe someone can tell me if i'm wrong.

[Gryffydd]

You could get an H&R Buffalo Classic. It's a 45-70 with a 32" barrel. That may be too long for a tractor gun, but it is surprisingly handy and well balanced. Some subsonic loads from a barrel that long should be fairly quiet. They run about $375 or maybe less.

But then again, if you think a 22 Mag would be too loud I think you're out of luck.

[Zach S]

edit: Sam1911 beat me to it, and did a much better job.

[Rem700SD]

It's not a gun, but a crossbow may do the trick. They're definately powerful enough and quiet. I'm not sure of the range tho.

[Mp7]

Crossbow with scope is not a bad idea ....

Way less hassle than loading subsonic bullets etc ....
and it sure is quiet.

[The Lone Haranguer]

...and due to a wilder disposition when I was young I don't think I'll be able to pass the check for a suppressor.
How wild, and how young? I don't think misdemeanor(s) will disqualify you. While I suppose the subsonic .45 (more of a "boom" report than the "crack" of a supersonic round) would be "quieter" than a .30-06, there is no centerfire pistol or rifle cartridge that is quiet unsuppressed.

[otblue]

A few posters here have already given you the answer. It's the 45-70 with heavy cast bullets and pistol type powders.

Done this myself for much the same reason.

500 grain Lee with some Unique loaded to 1040fps is a devastating 100 yard round unlike the 22 cals suggested by some. In terms of noise, my bench is about 75 yards from my house and the family says this is the quietest round I shoot other than a subsonic 22. From behind the butt it even seems even less annoying than a high velocity 22 air rifle I have.

One shot at 2 am is unlikely to wake your 300 yard neighbours and even if it did, one shot is all it's going to take and the neighbours will just roll over and go back to sleep without even realising why they were woken. Of course the tractor or ATV or spotlight might give you away.

Similar results are reported by friends using 44 Mag but once you've seen the results of a 500 grain cast even at just 1000 fps then nothing else compares for this sort of situation.

[doc2rn]

To be honest if you wanna keep game like that away go to the zoo and ask for a couple of bags of lion dung, then sprinkle said excriment around your property. It keeps dogs and all kinds of animals from comin on your property.
I would recommend an 1894 Marlin in .38 special/.357. 100 yds is easy and its a great rifle I take mine everywhere.

[DagoRed]

It's not a gun, but a crossbow may do the trick.

I was going to suggest he consider bow hunting.

[oldfool]

like one other poster here, I was gong to suggest a 38/357
be it a lever action, or perhaps more in keeping with manner of use OP suggested, a simple economical NEF break open single shot

38 enough for small critters, 357 enough for whitetail under 100 yards, preferably more like 50-70 yards or so

however, I doubt any pistol caliber carbine, or even 22 WMR is really 'quiet' enough to meet implied criteria

a slug gun would do, (even a 20 ga slug), but again not real quiet

the crossbow was a pretty good suggestion, but (not being a crossbow guy), methinks practical distance is far too limited (?)... and a compound bow takes a lot of practice, and not real convenient to tote around either

still think 38sp in a single shot is about as quiet as you can hope for, not too annoying if shoot only an occasional round

add -
2nd thoughts, mach 1 is ~ 1100 fps, and even the generic 38sp load likelier to be ~ 1200 fps out of an ~18" barrel
and a "wadcutter" class 38 load don't knock down much
if handloading, need keep it down to ~1000 fps max for subsonic
and the fattest, heaviest bullet you can throw at ~1000 fps muzzle is about as quiet as you can hope for
45-70 or whatever

[308win]

I believe if you can pass the background check to own firearms you can get the stamp to buy a suppressor.

[pbrktrt]

Why not just pay a visit to the surrounding neighbors and explain your plans and offer some venison if they are interested. If they are forewarned they won't freak out and call 911 at the sound of a shot or three in the night.

[Tinpig]

As others have said, if you can get close enough, a compound bow is the quietest way to go.

Tinpig

[Fremmer]

I'd look into getting a rifle chambered in .44 mag. One shot won't wake 'em up at dawn, and if it does, they ought to be up anyway (it is in the country, you know). With all of the roosters, trains, trucks, and cows running around at dawn, there's gonna be plenty of noise, anyway.

Edited to add: not sure if 44 mag out of a rifle will be any quieter than any other caliber. Just seemed like a good idea. Or you could use the .30-06 you've got. (just once at dawn!).

[KevininPa]

"It's not a gun, but a crossbow may do the trick."

Quiet.
Accurate.
Deadly.
No background checks.
And just plain fun!:)

[zootsuit002]

I know that here in NC one of the work arounds for sheriffs that will not sign off on suppresors is a living trust where the trust actually owns the suppresor. Here in Fayetteville a shop gave the contact information of a lawyer who would set one up for that purpose for $100.00. good people working the shop as well. Should be able to answer any questions that you have as to if this will work for you. Have heard that the living trust is the way to go and it has other benefits as well.

Phase V Supply
www.phase5supply.com
516 South Reilly Road
Fayetteville, NC 28314-5620
(910) 484-4867

[zootsuit002]

clarification, the shop did not charge for the lawyers info, the lawyer would set you up a living trust for $100.00

[Sam1911]

The compound bow or crossbow idea is not bad. Several folks have mentioned that range could be a problem, but remember that the O.P. has been successfully killing deer with a .22 LR. If he'd doing that, he's getting close and making solid head shots.

I'm sure he could make a crossbow work for him under those conditions.

[Zach S]

Its illegal to hunt with a crossbow in NC.

I know that you're doing pest control rather than hunting, but it may end up being a pain in the butt because of an uninformed officer - similar to out of state CHPs/CWPs.

[Sam1911]

I know that you're doing pest control rather than hunting, but it may end up being a pain in the butt because of an uninformed officer - similar to out of state CHPs/CWPs.

Again, he's been shooting whitetails with a .22 LR., out of season, at night, etc. ... I doubt he's worried about getting hassled over his "hunting" methods.

[hipoint]

Duct taping a coke bottle really wouldn't do much in terms of suppression. It might actually make the gun louder and would slow down the bullet.

My recollection of physics is rusty, but maybe someone can tell me if i'm wrong.
give it a try, it will blow your mind... It was shown to me and I was more than skeptical... It comes straight out of the british SAS manual though, and really works great.

1 20 oz. coke bottle

1 2 liter coke bottle

cut the bottoms off of both, but the 20 oz. inside the 2 liter and glue together. then duct tape over both of the cut off bottoms. It gives you 2 expansion chambers, and 2 "wipes" of the duct tape. Did not hurt accuracy enough to notice either. subsonic ammo and you have a very very quiet toy. 1st shot is the quietest, then just replace little patches of duct tape after each subsequent shot...

*** this information is for the purpose of knowledge only and is not recommended for use as without proper permissions it would be highly illegal***

I sure wish this were legal, I would be using one in a heartbeat, but like I said I'm trying to be a good boy now and don't want to run foul of the law anymore.

[hipoint]

thanks for all the info, I'm going to go and see what happens when I apply for a permit for a suppressor... If that falls through, then I'll go 45-70 I guess.

we'll see what happens...

[Zach S]

Again, he's been shooting whitetails with a .22 LR., out of season, at night, etc. ... I doubt he's worried about getting hassled over his "hunting" methods.
That's a good point. However, I drive loud vehicles, have a heavy foot, and like my music loud. So, I've been pulled over several times, and have been armed for most of them in the past 6 or 7 years. For the longest time, it wasn't an issue. The officer would say "thanks for telling me, what and where are you carrying, dont reach for it," etc, and for the most part, the stop was pretty typical and I was never disarmed.

Then I went through a seat belt check one day, and didn't inform because I wasn't armed. I didnt live nearby so they ran my license, and my CHP popped up. I spent an hour or two on the side of the road while my car was searched (without my consent) and questioned about what kind of guns I own, why I owned them, if they were registered, why I have my CHP, etc etc etc.

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it wont.

[mp510]

I ran across this as well when researching this question. I found that information, and responses to it that indicated that NC SOT3 FFLs were having no trouble legally selling silencers/suppressors to folks who wanted them. The long and the short of it is, the only way to know how it really works is to look up the nearest "Class 3" dealer and go ask them if they can legally sell you one.

Of course, you can call the DA's office or State Police and ask, but they'll just read you the text of the law. The dealers are the ones who do this day in and day out and they'll know the nuts & bolts of how it works in practice. And, they won't risk their license, livelihood, and freedom to make an illegal sale, either.

Regarding your past, if you don't have any felonies or other crimes on your record that would make it illegal for you to purchase and possess a gun, you really aren't going to have any trouble getting a Form 4 approved. Might run into trouble getting finding a chief law-enforcement official to sign the form for you, but there are ways around that.

If a .22 is definitely too loud, I don't see how you're going to meet both your sound and power requirements without a suppressor. Sure, subsonic ammo is part of the answer. But not all of it.

Good luck!

I have read the exploits of a number of NC residents who own SBRs and cans that are considered weapons of mass death and destruction under NC state law. On their Form 1's and 4's they write "Scientific Research and Design Purposes per GS 14-288.8(4)". Some of them are really doing research (ie. ballistic data, etc...), others fudge it a little bit to make it appear that they are bon-a-fidedly doing research (ie. logging data about their shooting activities), others could give a rat's ass because they have a federal permission slip...

[Sam1911]

Then I went through a seat belt check one day, and didn't inform because I wasn't armed. I didnt live nearby so they ran my license, and my CHP popped up. I spent an hour or two on the side of the road while my car was searched (without my consent) and questioned about what kind of guns I own, why I owned them, if they were registered, why I have my CHP, etc etc etc.

Well, your example provides a very good prompt for the OP and everyone else to a) follow the law exactly, b) KNOW the law and their rights, and c) respond to illegal infringements and hassling to the last inch of legal recourse.

Just because someone with a badge might hassle you doesn't mean you have to lie down and take that kind of treatment, or that they are immune from corrective actions.

In this thread, it seems that hipoint knows exactly where he stands vis-a-vis the law in his state, and I get the feeling he might quite enjoy the opportunity to help provide a "teaching opportunity" for someone who tried to overstep their legal authority.

[hipoint]

I'm pretty good with a bow, never fired a crossbow, but that is an option that I never considered. seems obvious, but that's why I posted here to get some idea's that I just had not thought of yet.

My neighbors would be fine with me shooting, even at night as I have done plenty of it, but I am trying to be courteous to them and not make loud noises in the middle of the night. None of them are very close, but they are close enough that gunshots would be a nuisance. I live on 30 acres, sounds like alot but when you are looking at it, it's really not that much. I am in the country, but also in a very upscale neighborhood. People rarely complain about my activities, but I would like to keep anyone from getting annoyed at me. It's easy for something stupid to escalate into an all out war between neighbors, so if I've got to spend a little money, or be a little disadvantaged (underpowered) then I'll do that just to keep the peace.

Most of them don't like that I shoot the deer, but they understand why. With 3,000 blueberry bushes I get a large part of my yearly income from my farm, so I have to do something to protect it.

I have tried lots of deterrents, from mountain lion pee and human hair, to noise making motion activated devices. The problem is these deer are nearly tame from folks feeding them and no one in the area hunting them, so they don't scare easily.

I'm not a crazy who just loves to shoot everything that I can, and really wish I could just make them stay away, but short of installing a 10-12ft chainlink fence around the blueberry field I'm kinda stuck.

When I go talk to my dealer about a suppressor, I'll try and remember to make a post on here about it. It might be informative to someone in my situation, Not exactly what I would call a "criminal" but with past teenage indiscretions on their record.

thanks again for all you folks' input, it's nice getting some advice from people who know from experience rather than hypothetical situations.

oh and a few folks seem to get the wrong idea here, what I am doing is completely legal... That's not saying that I don't have to deal with game wardens from time to time and show them permits/farm licenses. They are also within the law to "charge" me with poaching and then take me to court to prove that I was protecting my farm. However any reasonable person can look at a big field of blueberries and see why I'm doing it. Besides, I don't have to do it year round, only during fruiting season (early june-august). Technically if I did it any other time I would be in violation as there is nothing to protect (no berries) and I would have to prove that the deer were hurting the plants somehow, which I have not noticed them doing.

[ms6852]

I would recommend the crossbow or compound bow, and Pretender has a lot of merit in using a "22 mag to the dome". The problem with the sonic crack is that the barrel is not long enough. I have a remington 513T with a 27 inch barrel that is really quiet. As far as subsonic rounds go, from my personal experience it will penetrate a 1x4 inch plank of pine at 200 yds. I do it all the time because I can hit my targets as well as I do the frame. Longer barrels and solid 22lr bullets will do the trick, as well as a 22 magnum.

[hipoint]

I'll do some tests with the aquila sniper sub sonic ammo that i've got. see what kind of penetration its got. I do view the deer as pests, but at the same time I don't want them running off to die without being used for food. I've dropped plenty with my 22lr but those were all with high velocity ammo and a head shot.

I've had some very good suggestions, looks like I came to the right place. I'll post back up here if I settle on something that fits my needs (and budget).

[mgregg85]

If you cannot get approval for a suppressor then either form a LLC or an NFA trust and you won't have to worry about approval.

[otblue]

It sounds like you would be much better off using something like the 45-70 suggested earlier because of it's effectiveness.

From your description of the area and neighbours the last thing you need is a deer running off with an arrow stuck in it or a subsonic 22 flesh wound.

Animal cruelty charges will come back to bite you.

If using a 45-70, penetration is fantastic so keep in mind the background.

[SharpsDressedMan]

My recommendation would be a Thompson Center Contender carbine, or some other single shot, possibly an NEF "Handi-Rifle" in .45/.410. Get some mild .45 Colt rounds, or some .45 Colt Winchester Silvertips. They would be about 225gr, and expand well. This would reduce overpentration, and the rapid expansion would probably do a nice internal wound channel and shock on a whitetail. If you load, you can experiment with heavier bullets at lower velocity (less powder and bang). The longer barrel of the single shot carbines with a pistol round result in pretty quiet discharges. The NEF is a particularly compact & inexpensive rifle, and would be easy to pack on an ATV, etc. If you do qualify for a suppressor, you can get one that is made for the .45 rifle or pistol.

[Bubbles]

We make a .300 Whisper bolt gun that has been used by DNR agencies to thin deer populations in areas where hunting really isn't feasible (think suburban whitetail) to help stop the spread of CWD. The rifles get used at night, and no one gets woken up. Even without a suppressor they're pretty quiet. With one they're no louder than an air rifle.

[slabuda]

Does it need to be a gun? What about a cross bow?

[Sam1911]

Does it need to be a gun? What about a cross bow? When you post, remember to go and read the whole thread first. Sometimes you'll find that your suggestions have already been raised and considered, saving you the trouble.

Thanks.

[wishin]

Not too long ago a OP here brought up a shotshell gadget that fired 12 GA blanks. It was triggered by trip wire, I think. Don't know if that would be practical for you, and probably too loud, but maybe........

[danprkr]

If the deer are thick enough to be a real nuisance then they're probably approachable to a range to use a bow. And, contrary to popular belief bows aren't that hard to learn to use.

[wishin]

Hipoint said he's pretty good with a bow.

[lab28143]

The crossbow thing would work just fine. Shouldn't be an issue getting within range. Deer become fairly approachable, well on farms in Virginia at least. Then comes the bolts and broadheads for it, and im sure the tracking at night would become old quickly.

[marcograms]

Hard to beat the rossi or marlin .357. Very handy and accurate with plenty ammo to handle the job should it require more than one shot. I read an article where a guy used a .357 to control deer on an orchard. He said it was plenty enough with low recoil and report. At those distances placement shouldn't be a problem. If the neighbors would rather the deer not be shot could you imagine their disposition when a deer makes it on their property with an arrow hanging out of it's side? Try wounded with a .22 in the head. Just saying, at least you could tell them you're trying to be humane and relatively quiet.

[Ed Harris]

Subsonic .38/.357 reloads for Rifles

“Traditional” standard velocity (not +P) .38 Special ammunition loaded with lead round nose, lead flat nose, or semi-wad cutter bullets feeds smoothly from the cowboy lever guns and “carries’ up” better beyond 50 yards than target wad cutters.

Norma 158-grain lead, round nosed ammo I tyested as a benchmark was from the mid 1980s. It performs typically of the type, velocities averaging about 720 f.p.s. from a 2” snubbie, 800 f.p.s. from a 6” revolver and just under 1000 f.p.s. from the 25 inch Marlin Cowboy II, shooting round groups which averaged 1.6” at 50 yards.

Cheaper Than Dirt’s imported Czech wadcutters shot well, averaging about two inches.
Of the handloaded factory swaged, hollow-based wad cutters only Remington’s averaged less than 2” at fifty yards. The often recommended 2.8 grain charge of Bullseye averaged 1.8”, but increasing the charge slightly to 3 grains improved buillet stability and shrunk the average to an inch and a half.

The Remington 158-gr. Lead SWC flat base of .358 diameter loaded to 1.45” overall with 3.5 grains of Bullseye shot as well as good wad cutter reloads. Speer’s 158-gr. Lead Round nose with 3.5 grains of Bullseye was also a pleasant surprise, equaling my prized lot of Norma LRN.

Now knowing what factory loads and hand loads with swaged bullets did, I tested traditional .38 Special loads with cast bullets to see how they measured up. Cast bullet loads included the Saeco #348 double-end, bevel-based wad cutter, NEI #161A 190-gr. Flat nose; and bullets cast from another NEI #161A four-cavity, which was ordered shortened to remove the base band, producing a 150-grain flat-nosed cowboy slug.

I took my best loads and tested them at 100 yards in my Marlin 1894 Cowboy Limited with 2.5X Weaver scope. Norma .38 Special 158-gr. LRN factory loads averaged 3” at 100 yards. Handloads with swaged lead round nose and semi-wad cutter ammo in .38 Special cases didn’t shoot as well, but did stay under 4 minutes of angle, having useful field utility.

The Hunter’s Supply cast 190 LFN of 92-6-2 alloy and sized .358 from Midway, with 4.3 grains of Bullseye in .357 cases averaged 2.36” in the Marlin. When casting the NEI #191A from wheel weights I got comparable results as long as I kept velocities with the softer wheel weight alloy subsonic. I settled on 3.5 grains of Bullseye in .38 cases and from 4.0 grains in .357 cases based upon accuracy results.

Supersonic loads do not group as well at 100 yards as the slower loads. This is because the faster loads are subjected to transonic buffeting as projectile velocity decays below the speed of sound.

So my advice is not to magnum-ize it, but keep it slow, accurate and quiet. A good working velocity range is from 950 to 1050 f.p.s. so there is no “crack” to disturb the neighbors. A big flat-nosed bullet is effective on groundhogs, wild turkey and larger edible critters raiding your garden. Bon appettit!

[danprkr]

What about trapping them? Then you can dispatch them at your leisure when it won't bother the neighbors. I know it's not sporting to shoot a trapped animal, but we are talking about pest control. It's done all the time with other pests. Just a thought. Of course then comes the question, how do you trap a grown deer? :what:

Afraid I'm not much help on that one.

[PTK]

If you cannot get approval for a suppressor then either form a LLC or an NFA trust and you won't have to worry about approval.
If someone isn't legally able to own an NFA item, a trust/corporation/LLC will NOT get around that - they still run a background check on the purchase, as well they should given the current laws.

[NMGonzo]

I was going to suggest he consider bow hunting.

x2 on a crossbow with a scope.

Once sighted; no brainer.

[Palehorseman]

Do you reload? If so you might give consideration to some of the large caliber whisper loads. Maybe even "The Load," I use it for hard cast boolits, it is accurate, powerful enough and much quieter compared to normal rifle loads.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=CE+Harris%2Bthe+load%2Bred+dot&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

[hipoint]

I like the whisper idea, that sounds pretty good, as well as the 45-70 and the fella with the .38 out of a lever action... all sound pretty good.

I cannot trap them because traps are indiscriminate and can get children, dogs, my drunken friends at our yearly shindig... I have thought alot about traps with remote triggers (garage door opener) stuff like that, but can't quite bring myself to trust a mechanical trigger of any kind when someone's kids might be messing around. Then again I could just get an old van and spray paint free candy on the side...:eek:

you guys have had some pretty great idea's here... lots of stuff I did not know, or even thought of.

I'm not ruling out a crossbow, even though i'm pretty good with my compound bow I wouldn't trust myself with long range shots at night, and like was mentioned little susie finding a deer with an arrow in her sandbox would go a long way towards making neighbors unhappy.

I wounded one with a sub-standard .22 LR round, hit it in the head but it ran away, tracked it for about 3 days all over the valley here, kept finding spots where it fell down, and a blood splatter here and there, but never found any deer... It was not a sub-sonic but when I fired (after about 5 mis-fires) it made a poof sound rather than a loud crack, it was a big 550 count box of ammo called BLAZER... I don't think it was CCI blazer. anyhow, I got rid of that ammo and haven't had a problem since, but it has made me a little more weary of what I shoot them with. Never had a problem before dropping them with a .22 LR to the head, but after the bad bullet incident I've not been using the .22 LR anymore.

I wonder if anyone makes a radio frequency arrow??? it wouldn't guarantee you would find the deer, but would be pretty sure you would find the arrow anyhow...

anyhow thanks for all your suggestions, it's been a big help, i've got lots more options now than I had thought of before. and as soon as I can i'm going to go find out about a suppressor, because that would still be by far the best way around my dilemma. I'll pass the background check if it is the same as for a gun, all my guns are legal and I've bought them all new. I'm pretty confident the sheriff will sign off on my permit for a suppressor as well.

[MathurinKerbouchard]

If you will be protecting your crop in the mid-summer time frame, I think you should be good to go with any firearm. With all the fireworks that get set off at night during that time of year, i doubt the occasional report of a centerfire rifle is likely to disturb your neighbors very badly. Heck - invite the neighbors for a venison cookout after you whack one!

[Zach S]

how do you trap a grown deer?
With a 1967 Plymouth GTX convertible...