cant ignite 777


PDA






trog
April 19, 2010, 01:54 PM
I have aTC grey hawk in.50 cal. I would like to shoot 777 powder because it is accurate,easy to clean, and easy to load multiple shoots. The problem is ignition is iffy at best. I now use APP because ignition is almost flawless, but loading follow up shots can be tuff,and Iworry about leaving a charge loaded for too long. I dont have a good source for real BP and dont like Pyrodex (long story). I see some talk about musket caps and small pistol primer systems. Do yall think something like this would ignite 777 in my sidelock. Also has any one tried Blackmag XP in a side lock with #11 caps?


If ignorance is bliss; I should be real happy.

If you enjoyed reading about "cant ignite 777" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
alsaqr
April 19, 2010, 02:26 PM
777 can be hard to ignite, especially in a sidelock gun. Have you tried #11 magnum caps? If so then I would recommend a conversion to musket caps.

MCgunner
April 19, 2010, 02:37 PM
I don't think they make the deal I have on mine, converted to small rifle magnum primers. It works great and even shields the primer against moisture.

higene
April 19, 2010, 03:23 PM
I shoot 777 in my Lyman flintlock. I put 10-20 gr of Goex under the charge of 777 and it lights just fine.

:scrutiny:

arcticap
April 19, 2010, 08:21 PM
777 shouldn't be so difficult to ignite.

You could try to clean out the powder chamber in the bottom of the breech and also the flash channel that leads from the nipple into it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=466809&highlight=TC+powder+chamber

Or install a new after market nipple from Cabela's:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=415718&highlight=red+hot+spit+fire

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=317959&highlight=TC+powder+chamber

andrewstorm
April 20, 2010, 01:02 AM
I hope u mean powder?u shold never use pellets in a sidelock,and never use more than 85 grains 777,if your manufacturers max load is 100 gr black powder:eek: also never mix ANY POWDERS!

arcticap
April 20, 2010, 03:08 AM
also never mix ANY POWDERS!

Why not?

Hodgdon recommends duplex loads for flintlocks therefore it must be okay to mix powders when done in a safe and responsible manner.

Loyalist Dave
April 20, 2010, 08:17 AM
Indeed, and pellets with a dark end are that way because of a portion of black powder afixed to the pellet.

Gee, why mix powders? Why not use black powder and be done with it? I use spit patch and swab about every third shot. It's not that tough to deal with that one "needs" and ultra clean powder.

LD

alsaqr
April 20, 2010, 08:22 AM
Indeed, and pellets with a dark end are that way because of a portion of black powder afixed to the pellet.


Pyrodex pellets have an igniter on the end, 777 pellets do not have this feature.

trog
April 20, 2010, 10:47 AM
I never use pellets ( rifle has a chamber anyway) not even in inlines.
I feel sure I am getting everything clean, but I do not use water. I learned how to shoot Bp arms as a teen from some old farts and they never used water. They made all their cleaners and lubes and I dont remember how. I had to do a lot of cleaning befor I was aloud to shoot any of their guns.Sometimes it hard to change.
I might try another can of 777. Or maybe its its tme to get some real BP. I realy dont have a good place to store it. Would an old fridge do?

scrat
April 20, 2010, 08:07 PM
you can mix powder. at least with pellets. i usually add about 3-5 grains of goex. then put in a 777 or Pyrodex pellet. Black side down. Only way to gurantee me a fire

andrewstorm
May 4, 2010, 03:08 AM
SHOW me where hodgson recomends dyuplex loads! they and all muzzeloading manufacturers void warrantys fo thier use,iffin u mean 4f with 2f subs they are not duplex loads,duplex loads are a small amount o smokeless mixed with black powder! and are very dangerous:uhoh:

Cowboy2
May 4, 2010, 10:32 AM
http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html
Scroll down to flintlock. It stuck me as odd, too.

I'm asking, in all seriousness, what is the benefit of using Triple 7 in a flintlock if you have to use BP in the bore for ignition? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of using such an easy to clean powder?
I'm a big fan of Triple 7 and use it in my percussion guns, but I've never mixed it with BP.

trog
May 4, 2010, 12:11 PM
If I snap 3 or 4 caps and load and fire quickly 777 will ignite.As long as I keep loading and shooting (keeping everything warm) it will fire every time.
If I let the rifle cool down then it will not ignite on the first try. Load anthoner cap and it will fire.
Is a simple thing to change to musket caps? Will I need a new hammer? Will blow back be a problem?

Cowboy2
May 4, 2010, 01:58 PM
Perhaps a slight expansion and contraction of metal is the culprit? When it cools, the passage does not let enough flame through for reliable Triple 7 ignition? Just thinking out loud. Maybe its as simple as replacing the nipple.

351 WINCHESTER
May 4, 2010, 04:07 PM
I've never had any problems with 777 in my older side hammers unless the nipples were clogged or deformed. Get a new nipple, hotshot comes to mind.

wittzo
May 4, 2010, 06:41 PM
Clean it thoroughly with boiling water or some other deep cleaning product and let it soak a bit longer than the instructions.

The only trouble I've had with Triple 7 was when didn't know how to really clean my gun. I was using soap and hot water, but not boiling water. I had gunk from the previous owner mixing with the oil and water from when I "cleaned" it after I shot it the first time I owned it. I had to take the nipple off and use a nipple pick to dig through the sludge in the drum to get to fresh powder, and then added a few grains and put the nipple back on. It was an interesting shot, half the powder fizzled and the ball rolled out of the muzzle with a "bloomp" noise. It shot okay that day after that. It did it again the next time I tried to shoot it so I broke down cleaned it with boiling water fresh from the tea kettle to knock all the gunk out of the bore and the drum. I was hesitant because I didn't want to get water underneath my stock or take the stock off. It turned out that neither was a concern.

trog
May 4, 2010, 07:33 PM
I have tried a TC hot shot or flame thrower, which ever one it is that has the 2 holes in the side of the nipple where the cap goes on, no difference. I tried cleaning with very hot soapy water, no difference. My barrell is stanless and I can see down it fairly good with a good light. Really looks clean. I guess I could get used to APP powder.

arcticap
May 6, 2010, 01:34 AM
SHOW me where hodgson recomends dyuplex loads! they and all muzzeloading manufacturers void warrantys fo thier use,iffin u mean 4f with 2f subs they are not duplex loads,duplex loads are a small amount o smokeless mixed with black powder! and are very dangerous

I would never recommend using a smokeless powder that wasn't approved for muzzle loading such as Blackhorn 209.


I hope u mean powder?u shold never use pellets in a sidelock,and never use more than 85 grains 777,if your manufacturers max load is 100 gr black powder also never mix ANY POWDERS!

When you said never mix ANY POWDERS, were you talking about not mixing centerfire smokeless powders with muzzle loading powders or were you talking about not mixing ANY muzzle loading POWDERS?
It sounded like you were talking about muzzle loading powders and so was I.

Why not?
Hodgdon recommends duplex loads for flintlocks therefore it must be okay to mix powders when done in a safe and responsible manner.

If mixing different muzzle loading powders together aren't duplex loads, then I don't know what else to call them, maybe mixed loads? :rolleyes:

higene
May 6, 2010, 07:01 AM
Flintlock: To insure proper ignition in flintlock systems, 5 grains of FFFFG priming powder should be placed into the bore prior to loading the main charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex.

From Hogdon Loading notes

(http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html)

:scrutiny:

mykeal
May 6, 2010, 08:02 AM
higene:

your link is misspelled. There should be a letter 'l' at the end:
http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html (http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html)

MCgunner
May 6, 2010, 10:52 AM
I'd try musket caps.

alsaqr
May 6, 2010, 12:33 PM
I'd try musket caps.

+1
Musket caps will fire 777 every time.

trog
May 18, 2010, 02:39 PM
Found musket caps and a nipple for my TC. Must be something worng with my nipple, cause musket caps or worse than #11s. But all is not lost, in shopping around for a nipple, I found
a supplier for Goex black powder. Makes good smoke & fire from my short barrell TC. Dont know if I need 777 any more.

andrewstorm
May 18, 2010, 04:45 PM
The only published data I have ever read about duplex loads was warning against them and describing them as smokeless and pyrodex mixed ,:cool:cva was the manufacturer,a small bunch of daredevils in the south had been pushing thier cva spanish muzzeloaders to the breaking point,resulting in destruction of the gun and injury to the shooter

If you enjoyed reading about "cant ignite 777" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!