[Newton]

A colleague of mine recently attended his Grandfather's funeral. Apparently he was a keen firearms collector and his collection is now being divided up between the family members, that's where the story starts.

The collection includes a Korean War 1911. The story behind it is that my colleagues Grandfather was walking around a hill one day when he saw the body of a US officer, sat by the side of him was a North Korean soldier. In his hand, the soldier held the officers 1911 which had the slide locked back and the empty magazine still in place. He had pulled out his bayonet and was jabbing down at the slide release in an attempt to release the slide, mostly missing it and sticking the frame.

When asked in the past abut how he now came to be in possession of the Colt, the Grandfather replied "well that North Korean didn't need it anymore" ;)

Apparently, the gun still bears those original bayonet marks.

The only sad part is that the GI shot his gun dry and was then killed. Gives me the chills just thinking about it.

[Flashpoint]

Sounds like anouther story of 1911 legacy. If that gun could talk...

[Rob96]

And people wonder why the 1911 has so much mystique.

[George Hill]

And just think... if the Liberals had their evil ways, it would be melted to slag.

[45R]

Great Story!!!

[1911Tuner]

Gave me chills too.

[dsk]

The only sad part is that the GI shot his gun dry and was then killed. Gives me the chills just thinking about it.

A common occurrence, unfortunately. Although I can't recall the details, I once read an account from a soldier whose platoon surprised a patrol of German soldiers along a road. The Germans beat a hasty retreat, and actually ran past the soldier as he pulled out his .45 and emptied it at them as they ran past. None of the shots connected, and the Germans continued to run away. Given the non-existent marksmanship training, with ample doses of adrenaline and hurried excitement thrown in it's a wonder any enemy soldier ever died from a .45ACP wound!

[N3rday]

Wow, nice story!

Only makes me wonder what made the army change to a Beretta instead of just using double-stack 1911s

The beretta works fine though. The m16, on the other hand....

[mec]

" with ample doses of adrenaline and hurried excitement thrown in it's a wonder any enemy soldier ever died from a .45ACP wound!"

But I bet those germans were the ones running on the dry ground

[Mad Man]

a Korean War 1911. The story behind it is that my colleagues Grandfather was walking around a hill one day when he saw the body of a US officer, sat by the side of him was a North Korean soldier. In his hand, the soldier held the officers 1911 which had the slide locked back and the empty magazine still in place....The only sad part is that the GI shot his gun dry and was then killed.


If something like that happened today, I'm sure that some members of the "Cult of the 1911" would be blaming the Beretta for that officer's death.

[Rob96]

Originally posted by N3rday
The m16, on the other hand....

Don't buy into everything that is printed. Yes there are those in the Army griping about the M16........But the Marines on the otherhand haven't had complaints.

[natedog]

Im sorry, but could someone explain this to me? I don't quite understand the story :confused:

[ChickenHawk]

Great story!

ChickenHawk

[Rob96]

Originally posted by Natedog
Im sorry, but could someone explain this to me? I don't quite understand the story

His friends grandfather came upon a North Korean soldier who had killed an American soldier. The North Korean was playing around with the dead U.S. soldiers 1911. His friends grandfather then killed the North Korean soldier and took the 1911 away from him.

[Mil Novecientos Once]

If you want to read more great 1911 stories check this site, click the Myth and Legend link. (http://www.sightm1911.com/)

[VG]

Im sorry, but could someone explain this to me? I don't quite understand the story

A fairy tale begins, "Once upon a time." A war story begins, "No $hit, there I was...."

I'm afraid I've looked into too many M1 Garand "bringbacks" that prove to have been purchased through DCM to ever set much faith in stories. This is not to say that this one did or did not happen. There was a lot of close combat between Chinese soldiers and Americans once they entered the battle, and the weather made reliability problems common.

The most popular lubricant in the cold and wet was a penciil lead, rubbed on the sliding surfaces.

[.45FMJoe]

Don't buy into everything that is printed. Yes there are those in the Army griping about the M16........But the Marines on the otherhand haven't had complaints.

Well, that's because they are Marines...you know, the competant branch. LOL. Appologies to any cannon fodder on the boards, but Jesus Christ you guys always look like a bunch of as_ hats.

Let me just give a few examples of things that are on the top of my head.

Lt. William L. Calley. He was protecting his troops, the ones he was sworn to care for/oversee/protect/lead, etc. What did the army bastages do? Court Martialed him and locked him up.

Does anyone remember the woman who made a media circus out of her being depolyed during the first Gulf War? She was a black servicewoman, mother and wife. She was called up to go and complained. She said she only enlisted for the benefits, not to go to a war. Anyone else remember this? I wish I could find the old articles so it doesn't look like I'm blowing smoke.

101st Airborne. I'm a WWII junkie, I used to have nothing but respect...until this latest Iraqi war. Where is the pride? Where is the sense of brotherhood? Aren't you guys proud to wear the patch? How do you let someone dishonor one of the most honorable divisions in the U.S. Army? One of you own chucks a grenade in an officer's tent. Killing him and wounding others...and you let him live? It's a BIG desert. One guy is not hard to make dissapear. I think even a group of squids would have made him "sleep with the fishes."

How about right now in the Iraqi war? Lt. Col. Allen B. West of the Army's Fourth Infantry Division. He has a choice – a court martial or resign early, losing retirement benefits. So he roughed up an informant, but it SAVED AMERICAN SOLDIER'S LIVES. West said while interrogating the Iraqi policeman he "fired into the weapons clearing barrel outside the facility alone, and the next time I did it while having his head close to the barrel. I stood in between the firing and his person. I admit that what I did was not right, but it was done with the concern of the safety of my soldiers and myself."

Funny quote about that last one: "Excuse me while I go to look up Marquis of Queensberry," Elaine Donnelly, head of the Center for Military Readiness told the Times."No wonder we haven't gotten any information on Hussein's present location from all of those 'deck of cards' people we have captured. Has the Army lost its institutional mind? Or maybe they have forgotten that a state of war exists in Iraq."


I'm sure I could go on. Oh, a lot of my relatives, including my father are former Marines. I'm waiting for my batchelors degree from USF and then I shall enlist in the Corps. Sorry if I sound a bit biased or have offended anyone. I think the examples speak for themselves.

[zahc]

One of you own chucks a grenade in an officer's tent. Killing him and wounding others...and you let him live? It's a BIG desert. One guy is not hard to make dissapear. I think even a group of squids would have made him "sleep with the fishes."

I was surprised at the way that situation turned out myself.

[NevadaPistolero]

A lot of WW1 and WW2 medal of honor winners were using their .45 in the actions that got them the medal, sometimes it was the weapon of last resort.

[clubsoda22]

Don't buy into everything that is printed. Yes there are those in the Army griping about the M16........But the Marines on the otherhand haven't had complaints.

At college the Army ROTC guys can't qualify 23 OUT OF 40 SHOTS at 25 yards, the smallest target being a 3x4" square. It's pitiful, they complain about the recoil. I badly want to get my winchester defender, load it up with magnum slugs and teach them a lesson about RECOIL.

Speaking of which, i made an orange sticker on the bullseye of a target at 25 yards dissapear with my first rifled slug yesterday. I was happy. Especially since i was using a bead sight. It made me look good. as did that dead center headshot with my bersa at 7 yards offhand after a quick draw.

[coltjeeper]

.45FMJoe,

You did offend. I'm active Army and don't think you have much room to bitch when you haven't even served in your beloved Corp yet. My unit was at Campbell at the time of the aboved mentioned "fragging". You think your the only ones that wanted to do very bad things to that SOB? We worked with alot of those guys over there and some of them aren't coming home now. Go to sleep thinking about that instead of which branch is better than the other.

[roscoe]

Lt. William L. Calley. He was protecting his troops

Give me a break!

[1911Tuner]

roscoe said:

Give me a break!

Without fueling a flame war, I'll have to say that came from a misunderstanding of what Viet Nam was like...and the mentality that
often arises from a frustrating situation in which men are being hurt and
killed daily.

Much of the action in "The 'Nam" came not from NVA regulars and young
men who became known as Viet Cong...or Viet Minh, but sometimes from old men and women and even children. The enemy was everybody...and they were everywhere. A commonplace event was a 12 or 13 year-old girl reaching to accept a candy bar from an 18 year-old Marine, and tossing a grenade at him as he walked away. Or an old woman who begged for chewing gum and C-rations in the morning, and being caught at midnight with a satchel charge.

While I don't condone Calley's actions, I can understand how he reached
that point. As has been stated often, when referring to things like that:

"The meanest animal in the jungle is the 19 year-old kid with a rifle who
has just lost a friend that was closer than a brother."

As for the fragging that took place in Kuwait...I'll guarantee you that those
boys wanted very badly to administer some Ranger Justice to that little
prick, and probably would have had they benn able to handle it at a lower
level...but by the time the guy was caught, there were too many involved
in his capture to be able to hold a "party" in his honor.

Marines and Airborne Rangers do rag at one another as to who is the
baddest and toughest..but that's just part of their Esprit de Corps...
They're proud, and it shows. I was a Marine rifleman in Viet Nam...
I ragged at the Rangers too...and of course, they ragged back...but
each knew that we would be in good hands with the other watching
his back. Don't sell them short. They were a tough bunch in The
Ardennes...and they're a tough bunch now.

Tuner

[Newton]

Alright, who derailed my thread, I'm taking names :scrutiny:

[roscoe]

I apologize if this hijacks the thread, but -

I am a big fan of the US military, with many veteran family members of wars throughout the last century. And I think that it is about the only military in the world that is both highly effective and highly ethical. But, let's call a spade a spade. Calley probably was emotionally damaged, but the fact is, tens of thousands of American soldiers fought in that war without doing what he did. I think he got off easy. To just dismiss it like .45FMJoe is nearly obscene.

By the way, there were some American soldiers who were heroes that day:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/03/98/mylai/62924.stm

[dsk]

Since the thread had been 'jacked anyway, I just want to throw in my .02 cents. It seems the USA keeps finding itself in the middle of civil wars and anarchist movements all the time. Vietnam, Somalia, and now Iraq. In these countries there is no firm leadership, only total anarchy as different groups seek control and the native people switch allegance daily. The young man who previously seemed to love America suddenly has a change of heart after hearing that his brother got killed by an American bomb, and suddenly hates the USA with such passion that he'll gladly blow himself up just to kill a few.

Sometimes these countries just ain't worth it, and for the USA to step in and try to change the situation only allies all these warring factions against us, making them angry that we're interfering in their business.

BTW regarding these "issues" regarding US servicemen and women, remember the source of all this info. The civilian news media is nobody's friend, unless you're a liberal Democrat. They'll call our soldiers heroes one minute when they die, then the next minute they're callous brutes because somebody slapped a detainee. They only intend to sell papers and make money, so take ANYTHING they say or print with a grain of salt.

[Ant Mod]

Personally I get pissed off at any mention of a GI taking war spoils off of a live enemy soldier. My Grandfather (or Opa) was a naval engineer for Germany during world war two. On his way home he was robbed of all his belongings by a GI, yes ROBBED as in they did not belong to the GI, however if he resisted he would have been shot and no one would have cared. Did the GI or any other GI care? No. They were too into themselves and their rewards that they forgot they were humans.

So forgive me if I sound hard, but I will never purchase or condone the purchase of a war spoil. They were stolen and the owners a thief as I see it. So you fought in the war for freedom only to become a thief? Good for you!

[Kaylee]

So forgive me if I sound hard, but I will never purchase or condone the purchase of a war spoil. They were stolen and the owners a thief as I see it.

:confused:
The pistol in question is American.
The present owner in question is American.

The weapon was briefly captured by an enemy combatant, then recaptured by an American... after killing said enemy on the battlefield.

I fail to see how this is "theft."

:confused:

-K

[1911Tuner]

Ant Mod. Keep in mind that most of the trophies that are "robbed" from prisoners after a pitched battle are very often government issue, and the POWs would be soon stripped of everything exept their clothing anyway.
Bear also in mind that the "thieves" are young men who just got
through watching friends bleed and die at the hands of those that are
being robbed. It's tough to understand the mentality of a group of
soldiers at that point.

I have a story of a Walther P-38 and a set of officer's field glasses
that my father took from a German Major at Colmar Pocket during
the Ardennes campaign that I will share with you privately. Most of
the German soldiers in that war didn't want to be there any more than
the Americans or British did. This story reflects that, and I think you'll
be interested.

I'll PM you in a little while.

Tuner

[CZF]

Most people who know a bit about the Korean War will tell you that
the P-35 was the most sought after handgun. Troops liked it's high-
capacity, and ability to punch thru the N. Korean and Chi-Com quilted
clothing.

Many a smart GI dumped the old 1911 and quickly became friends with
British, or other Common Wealth soldiers serving there who carried the
P-35 Browning.

[Delmar]

Newton-I sure hope that particular pistola gets a place of honor in your home.

.45FMJoe-good luck to you in the Corps. Just some advice-its not too wise to run your yap about the military services when you have yet to serve a single day. There's a lot of people from all of the services who justifyably take pride in their military service to our country, be it Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard-and it is not good cricket to run them down. They all bled just as red as any Marine.

[George Hill]

Ant Mod - You need to relax a bit.

I think this thread has about run it's course.