About the finger thing

Here's something I've always wondered about... Why do some people hold their trigger finger straight, outside the trigger guard?

That's is really odd looking to me. Were they trained to do that? Is it because they have short fingers and can't reach the front of the front of the trigger guard? I've never put my finger inside the trigger guard accidentally and mine is always relaxed.

Yes, this is a serious question... If you do it, why do you do it?

Mostly a force of habit for me. That way I KNOW my finger won't slip and find it's way to the trigger. Also, no one else will mistakenly think it is on the trigger either.

Rule: Always keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to fire.

Makes sense too. It's the professional thing to do. It reduces accidental and negligent discharges.

I'll post a link to a video demonstrating why...

See this video on following link.

Female police officer hovering over a perp laying face down as her partner handcuffs him. In her presumed excitement, her finger is on the trigger and addrenelan or fear or excitment or nerves or whatever causes her finger to twitch and shoot the perp in the head. The correct procedure would be low ready, pointed at the ground, finger OFF the trigger and straight against the frame (or some variant of that).

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1161/why_women_shouldnt_be_cops/

YES- accidents DO happen, that fast. Having your finger out of the trigger well reduces this. IF your finger is on the trigger or in the well and you are in a tense situation, and you are startled, spooked, excited, tripped/falling, etc. the natural reaction is to SQUEEZE... and that would cause you to fire the weapon. This female cop found out the hard way after violating several firearms rules (keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire, always point the weapon in a safe direction, never point the weapon at something you don't intend to shoot).

I keep my finger off the trigger because that's how I have been trained and that is the consistent message for responsible, professional, and safe firearms usage. I've received countless hours of training from military, retired military, police, retired police, civilian trainers and avid firearm-enthusiast trainers.

Why not? If it works, what does it matter where the finger is as long as it's in a safe position?

what does it matter where the finger is

It doesn't matter to me if they want to do that. It is something I've always wondered about though, so I asked. No such thing as a dumb question, right? :D

It looks uncomfortable to me. I've got about 4 decades of carry under my belt as a hunter where I've spent MANY MANY days from sunup to sundown carrying guns in my hands and I think think maybe my finger would get tired doing that :D

How does your finger get tired straight along the receiver? It seems like it would get more tired in the trigger well focused on not touching the trigger...

Did you watch the video...?

Along the slide is preferred. For those of us that shoot different pistols, it provides a more repeatable location and works with nearly any pistol.

It also shows to others nearby you know what you are doing.


ETA: Of course I'm speaking of shooting at the range w/ others or in competitions or training. In the woods with the rifle or pistol, unless I'm close to taking a shot, I carry in whatever method is most comfortable and applicable given the circumstances.

leadcounsel - Like I said, never found my finger on the trigger by accident, it just doesn't have a mind of it's own, and it is not in the trigger well.

I consider my finger as a guard to keep foreign objects such as twigs from contacting the trigger. The tip of my finger rests lightly on the front of the trigger guard... Although I will press it more tightly against the gun when walking through heavy brush (some of those twigs get pretty big).

How does your finger get tired straight along the receiver?

As it appears to me their finger is very stiff, arched backwards even. That requires muscle force in my whole hand to perform.

I've been trained from the beginning to keep my trigger finger indexed along the frame except when actually firing. It's pretty much second nature now and no problem at all. And when I was regularly competing in USPSA matches, anyone not doing that gets sent home right away.

this is a serious question... If you do it, why do you do it?

The serious question is... who here also does it with drills, staple guns and other hand tools? :D

It also shows to others nearby you know what you are doing.


This is what I've assumed but I see so many doing it that I've wondered if they were being taught that.

Like I said, never found my finger on the trigger by accident, it just doesn't have a mind of it's own

Eh, that's not entirely true. The muscles in your fingers naturally want to curl (even if it's just a little bit) and stressful situations can often cause unconscious clenching, which very well could result in an unintentional finger-on-trigger situation. Keeping the finger straight, completely above the trigger guard enures that such a reaction is highly unlikely.

As it appears to me their finger is very stiff, arched backwards even.

If someone is actually doing that, there's no reason for it. You should be able to just lay your finger along the side of the receiver and let it lay there.

who here also does it with drills, staple guns and other hand tools?

I sure do!

Keeping the finger straight, completely above the trigger guard enures that such a reaction is highly unlikely.


And leaves your trigger completey open to foreign objects :what: Hope you're not in the woods with me ;)

It is something I've always wondered about though, so I asked.

You'll find this is expected basic gunhandling in training and competition circles. There will be some latitude on where, specifically, the trigger finger is placed, but straight along the frame (and, ideally, in contact with some physical reference point) is pretty standard.

And leaves your trigger completey open to foreign objects :what: Hope you're not in the woods with me ;)
What brboyer said. Its repeatable and trainable. It's easier to transfer that to all guns than most other methods of keeping your finger off the trigger.

And Ryder: I do too. Mostly force of habbit because of the similarities of the grips. That doesn't mean that it's not good for safety too. It can prevent you from drilling right into your leg or something else that you don't want to drill into.

Yup, nobody has ever gotten on my case about my style. It has caused me to wonder if perhaps people who appear to have this self-conscious finger syndrome did get reemed out, or are just worried about that happening to them.

Maybe it was a dumb question :p

The serious question is... who here also does it with drills, staple guns and other hand tools?

Guilty :)

I was trained to index my finger along the frame for 2 very specific reasons.
First is aim, you have been pointing at stuff your entire life with your strong hand index finger and it has a very close connection with your vision (hand-eye coordination) look at something and close your eyes, now point at the object with your eyes still closed and then open them, you are right on aren't you? Makes target acquisition and point shooting under stress easier.
Second is safety, your hands are wired together under a thing called sympathetic nerve response, that is if one hand does something subconsciously the other follows along. When you flinch is it with just your weak hand? Of course not, now when you flich with a gun in hand or you grab a door handle searching for the bump in the night your gun hand will tighten as well, or if you have to stiff arm an assailant, etc its better not to have an negligent discharge.

Ryder, I'm with you all the way. After more than 50 years of gun handling and shooting have never had a problem.

What type of firearm and situations are you talking about?

Why are you walking around in the woods with your finger anywhere near the trigger if your carry method allows branches/stick close enough to impact the trigger?

...It has caused me to wonder if perhaps people who appear to have this self-conscious finger syndrome did get reemed out,...Well there is that of course. I can guarantee that if you take a class someplace like Gunsite or one of the other major schools and don't keep your finger indexed along the frame you will most assuredly get reamed (or thrown out of a USPSA or IDPA match).

Question:

If one keeps their finger inside the trigger guard, but behind the trigger, as in between the trigger and grip, is it considered to be unsafe?

A friend of mine does this, and he explained to me that "it's safer," since his finger effectively blocks the trigger from making any movement at all, and felt more natural to him than stretching it up onto the slide or reaching for the front of the trigger guard. He admitted it was slower, since the finger had to come straight out from behind and then straight back in onto the front of the trigger, but to him it was more comfortable. He does have somewhat smaller hands than I do, though.

What type of firearm and situations are you talking about?

Why are you walking around in the woods with your finger anywhere near the trigger if your carry method allows branches/stick close enough to impact the trigger?

It's called hunting. The object is to kill things with feathers and fur. They hide in the woods and your object is to find them. This sometimes requires walking through the unwalkable.

I keep my finger fairly straight, just not unnaturally so. I think there was some misinterpretation of my original wording so I edited the OP. I'll be more careful about not posting until I've had my first cup of coffee from now on :D

Question:

If one keeps their finger inside the trigger guard, but behind the trigger, as in between the trigger and grip, is it considered to be unsafe?

A friend of mine does this, and he explained to me that "it's safer," since his finger effectively blocks the trigger from making any movement at all, and felt more natural to him than stretching it up onto the slide or reaching for the front of the trigger guard. He admitted it was slower, since the finger had to come straight out from behind and then straight back in onto the front of the trigger, but to him it was more comfortable. He does have somewhat smaller hands than I do, though.
Hmmm, if anything I would think you are risking a dislocated, broken, or severed finger...no thanks.

Question:

If one keeps their finger inside the trigger guard, but behind the trigger, as in between the trigger and grip, is it considered to be unsafe?

A friend of mine does this, and he explained to me that "it's safer," since his finger effectively blocks the trigger from making any movement at all, and felt more natural to him than stretching it up onto the slide or reaching for the front of the trigger guard. He admitted it was slower, since the finger had to come straight out from behind and then straight back in onto the front of the trigger, but to him it was more comfortable. He does have somewhat smaller hands than I do, though.


I wouldn't do that because the margin of error is slight and he is developing a habit that is not transferable to other guns. Very dangerous IMO.

It's called hunting. The object is to kill things with feathers and fur. They hid in the woods and your object is to find them. This sometimes requires walking through the unwalkable.

I keep my finger fairly straight, just not unnaturally so. I think there was some misinterpretation of my original wording so I edited the OP. I'll be more careful about not posting until i've had my first cup of coffee from now on :D

I and most safe hunters I associate with do not have their fingers anywhere near the trigger while walking the unwalkable. Nor do we allow our trigger guards close to things that might allow them to be operated. :scrutiny:

...If one keeps their finger inside the trigger guard, but behind the trigger...First, there would need to be room. It wouldn't work with my 1911s for example. Second, it'll slow you down if you need to shoot quickly.

Behind the trigger, under the triggerwell, on the front of the trigger guard... all of these are inferior and less safe than the simple straight finger resting along the frame.

The correct method, straight along the frame, is the same for each and every gun whether it's a bolt action rifle, leveraction rifle, shotgun, AK47, AR15, 1911, Glock, Sig, revolver, etc. It's safe from accidentally discharging the weapon. It's quick for target acquisition and trigger acquisition.

Behind the well requires you to insert your finger behind the trigger. Try doing this in the dark, or with an unfamiliar gun, or with a 1911 or other weapon that lacks space behind the trigger, and try doing this without looking. Try doing this hundreds of times without an accident. Do it while running. I bet most people just cannot. Sooner or later you'll have to look, slowing you down and taking your eyes off the target. VERY dangerous habit.

In front of the trigger well is inferior because trigger wells vary so greatly and at some point your bad habit will cause you to reach for that trigger well but grab the trigger; or you could slip and fall and pull with your finger which 'bounces' into the trigger well, and subsequently pulls the trigger.

Under the trigger well is much slower and lessens your hold on the weapon for weapons with short handles (aka concealed carry handguns). The idea is to keep as much hand on the weapon as possible. Putting your index finger under the well may push your pinky off the bottom of the grip; in any event it will effect the grip on the weapon every time.

Ryder, if walking through thick brush, why not either unchamber your weapon or cover the entire trigger well with your entire hand clasp over the well?

4 decades of carrying while handgun hunting. I would think after 40 years you would get a holster my man.

If the brush is thick enough to possibly catch in the trigger then it is probably to thick to take a shot. If its that thick you might want to think about not having a loaded chamber.

It's called hunting. The object is to kill things with feathers and fur....Straight finger works there too, at least out pheasant hunting over dogs. And of course my friend with the dogs would be upset if one got shot (and so would I).

I and most safe hunters I associate with do not have their fingers anywhere near the trigger while walking the unwalkable. Nor do we allow our trigger guards close to things that might allow them to be operated.

If has been my experience that I have no mental control over inanimate objects in the woods. For example if a branch is bent and loaded with potential energy because a log had fallen on it and you step on that log it could be released and swing with considerable force. Naturally the safety should work to prevent the gun from firing if the trigger is hit in that situation but there's no such thing as being too safe.

So I cover the trigger well with my finger when travelling through dense brush to protect it from foreign objects entering. It's no unwritten law with me that my finger has to always be covering the trigger guard and if I am walking an open field or swamp then yes, as you imply there is no reason to cover it.

4 decades of carrying while handgun hunting. I would think after 40 years you would get a holster my man.


Never seen anyone hoslter a shotgun or rifle on them while hunting. Very few people hunt with handguns although I do on occasion, and yes, those are holstered.

Is it because they have short fingers and can't reach the front of the front of the trigger guard? I've never put my finger inside the trigger guard accidentally and mine is always relaxed.

The biggest reason would be ease of repeating with various firearm models, and for all finger and hand sizes on all firearm dimensions.

Training yourself to find purchase with the tip of your finger may work 99.9% of the time, but that one time in the dark or in a panic or when your grip is not centered and the purchase is the trigger instead of the front of the trigger guard makes it a bad practice. Your finger goes out to find that spot and finds the trigger or tip of the trigger.

It may work for you on some guns, or maybe even many guns, but what about the gun with a larger trigger guard or one further forward? Maybe some of those designed to allow the use of winter gloves? There is some guns without a trigger guard.
Training yourself to only be safe with certain designs has risks.

Another big reason is it lets others know your finger is off the trigger. Communication is important when dealing with firearms, and it communicates to others in training, recreation, or situations involving teamwork that the finger is not on the trigger and may discharge the firearm.
Just you knowing that is not adequate communication.
It also communicates to other people that you have proper trigger discipline, which can give them more confidence in your abilities to safely handle a firearm, even if you could with another method.
This is one of the big ways to differentiate between the new guy with a gun that should not be trusted, and someone that has some experience or has taken some pointers on gun safety.
Handling a gun should not be casual, even if you are comfortable with it. Just like one should not gesture with one while they talk even if they never sweep someone. When I see some muzzle movement while someone talks and is looking away from the firearm or towards who they are talking to I instantly think "potential danger".
The stiff forward finger also goes along with the sort of trigger finger discipline and muzzle control which communicates itself to other people that the firearm is being safely handled.
Your finger naturally wants to curl slightly, and so your type of grip curled over the trigger guard is more comfortable and relaxed, which is exactly why when you see someone with a rigid finger you can be sure they are consciously aware of what their finger is doing and it is not casually relaxed or forgotten. They are very aware and actively involved in keeping their finger straight forward, and so paying attention to safe gun handling.

Zoogster is 100% correct.

Never seen anyone hoslter a shotgun or rifle on them while hunting. Very few people hunt with handguns although I do on occasion, and yes, those are holstered.

Hunting...OK, there are many more uses for firearms by the way.


Never seen anyone hoslter a shotgun or rifle on them while hunting.

I've got a rifle 'holster', it's great when you need both hands free, even better than them new finagled contraptions called slings. Ever heard of a sling? It's a chunk of rope tied to your rifle that you can sling over your shoulder. They are very convenient and safe on unsure footing - although a little slow on the draw.

In some areas that I hunt in, you need all four extremities and wish you had a prehensile tail!

Safety is always first in my book.

if walking through thick brush, why not either unchamber your weapon or cover the entire trigger well with your entire hand clasp over the well?


The main reason to enter the "unwalkable is to flush game out. An unloaded gun won't do much good. I have covered it with my hand depending on the circumstances.

Good points by the Zoogster, thanks for your input.

Everybody has their own way of doing things for whatever application they are using/carrying. I personally keep my finger straight and off the trigger ALWAYS. It's taught and advocated in the military, ranges, shooting classes/courses, matches, and competitions. Also it's one the 4 basic firearm rules that I know a majority of us all follow and preach to our fellow firearm enthusiast. It's also common courtesy when shooting with others, it lets strangers know that you are a vigilant safe shooter aware of others and your surroundings.
People here have been pretty vocal about being flagged at ranges and I know I am not comfortable taking the word of a stranger at the range that him pointing his firearm casually at my foot and his finger on the trigger is safe just because HE knows he is and that's what he's always done.
Also being startled, stumbling, tripping, or whatever reason it's just a simple extra fail safe that takes half a second to employ. No one is perfect, though some are 99% of the time all it takes is once.

So I cover the trigger well with my finger when travelling through dense brush to protect it from foreign objects entering. It's no unwritten law with me that my finger has to always be covering the trigger guard and if I am walking an open field or swamp then yes, as you imply there is no reason to cover it.

I've done that a lot with a shotgun in thick brush, in fact I used to carry a SXS with my hand around the frame and trigger guard.

As for handgun I'm guessing you got to blame Cooper for the strait finger and maybe TV.

Why do some people hold their trigger finger straight, outside the trigger guard?

Simple. Have you ever fumbled anything? Ever stumbled? Ever dropped anything? Do you want that to happen with a finger on the trigger? No one has ever intended to accidentally shoot themselves or others.

It also communicates to other people that you have proper trigger discipline, which can give them more confidence in your abilities to safely handle a firearm, even if you could with another method.
This is one of the big ways to differentiate between the new guy with a gun that should not be trusted, and someone that has some experience or has taken some pointers on gun safety.

+1 to this entire post. Well said. I have seen several AD's in and around dove fields. I really appreciate when someone uses good gun etiquitte when hunting with me. Keeps me from having to embarrass them by flipping thier rifle/shotgun muzzle down in my truck,or overtly walking to what ever side their muzzle is NOT pointing when heading into the field.

With the extremely light trigger pull I have on most of my handguns (especially revolvers) it's best not to even think about touching the trigger until you're on target.

Some of you scare the hell out of me! I can have a gun with the safety on over my shoulder without having my finger on the trigger, and get on target mighty fast. If you are using an 870 or something like it how do you switch the safety??? Walking around anywhere with your finger on the trigger is just plain STUPID! Your worrying about a branch hitting your trigger? I'd worry more about falling down and blowning my head off with your flesh and bone trigger guard!!

So I cover the trigger well with my finger when travelling through dense brush to protect it from foreign objects entering. It's no unwritten law with me that my finger has to always be covering the trigger guard...

Sounds good to me...
What if yer a lefty..?
Which side of the trigger housing do you decide to protect..?:confused:

I've occasionally used a rifle to help break through "unwalkable" heavy brush.
I can guarantee that a limb, branch, or twig would not enter the trigger guard and fire the gun, because it was NOT ready to fire!
If you have to use your finger to prevent the firearm discharging in the woods, I'd rather not spend my time with you out there.:what:
Good hunting,
p

I call it the "Trigger Finger Rest" position.

You trigger should be in one of two places only:

Off the trigger, completely out of the trigger guard and resting on its "Trigger Finger Rest" position, or
On the trigger after the decision has been made to shoot.


The trigger finger can be either straight or slightly bent, whichever method works best for the shooter. The trigger finger should be relaxed and ready to quickly move to the trigger as soon as the decision is made to shoot.

Personally, I bend my finger slightly and place the tip of my trigger finger against the side of the frame above the trigger. I experimented with my finger straight and with my finger bent, and I found that under stress, when my finger is straight, I press it into the frame, which locks my finger joints. It takes more effort to move my finger because I must first unlock my finger joints. Whereas with my finger slightly bent I'm just pressing my fingertip into the frame, but its more relaxed and I can more naturally, more fluidly and more precisely move it onto the trigger under stress.

The tip of my finger provides different tactile feedback to my brain than the pad of my finger. Under stress I subconsciously know where my finger is - if I feel the tip of my finger then it's on the Trigger Finger Rest, if I feel the pad of my finger then it's on the trigger.

This all started with SWAT Units and UFs because they would have thier fingers ON the trigger and safety OFF. After a few law suits the lawers got invoulved and a new SOP was developed.

For those of you that have their finger anywhere near the trigger when walking through heavy brush. Please, if we ever go hunting together, I hope you don't mind if I bring up the rear!

Finger along the frame. And yes, I do that with drill motors too...

IF your finger is on the trigger or in the well and you are in a tense situation, and you are startled, spooked, excited... the natural reaction is to SQUEEZE...

Been thinking on this. I'm calling shenanigans. Nothing personal, I have heard it said in the past. In fact I agree it sounds logical, but it is not probable. Not only has it never happened to me I've never seen it happen to others or had others tell me it happened to them in my lifetime.

I've personally undergone situations of extreme panic with my finger on the trigger/safety off yet not had the gun go off unintentionally. Like when an an enormous oak tree split in half near me once. There was a deafening roar for several seconds before any visual cue as to what was happening. I thought the world was coming to an end and was seriously looking for something to kill. Had no clue what was going on but I did know my life was in imminent danger. Also had people shoot guns near me when I wasn't expecting it and was startled so bad my feet came off the ground yet there was no problem with loss of trigger control. Have also seen this happen to many others over the years.

People get shot with their finger on the trigger/ safety off and their gun doesn't even go off involuntarily. I've been shot and my finger didn't go to the trigger because I was too busy processing the situation in my head. That is highly surprising yet jerking the trigger was not an involuntary response in my experience. Although many a person in search of an explanation for why they shot someone (with perfect accuracy) has claimed "I got startled" not even Hollywood imagines this to be true since they often portray it as a false excuse.

It is in fact a person's natural instinct upon surprise to open their hands and drop things. Ever grab something hot? Highly surprising/startling to me yet instinct has always forced me to drop it, not clench it harder. How many stories have you heard of where someone who is shot dropped their gun? I read of this happening fairly often. Weren't they surprised? Why didn't their "natural reaction to squeeze" kick in?

Finger along the slide. Heck, my gun even has a depression for the straight out trigger finger to fit into. The simple answer is - there is no reason not to but at least a couple of benefits of doing so.

Um, it depends, this has alot to do with Neuro-muscular control
I forget which is responsible for startle response, the sympathetic or para-sympathetic, however, to me it doesn't much matter.

I was taught to index the finger, and it is easy to see, if you're around me with a loaded gun and have your finger on the trigger, expect to get reamed for violating the golden 4.

Been thinking on this. I'm calling shenanigans.

"calling shenanigans"? :confused:

This is basic, generally-accepted training doctrine in the firearms training community. There is a great deal of research and experience underlying the rationale for these techniques. If you care to learn about it, some good material is available here:

https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/classes/Firearms_Manuals/Level_1_Handgun/Level_I_Section_1_resources_section.pdf


Your personal expereinces seem to be outliers, but they certainly don't impugn the 'trigger finger index' technique as a general gunhandling 'best practice'.

IF your finger is on the trigger or in the well and you are in a tense situation, and you are startled, spooked, excited... the natural reaction is to SQUEEZE...
Been thinking on this. I'm calling shenanigans. Nothing personal, I have heard it said in the past. In fact I agree it sounds logical, but it is not probable...Actually, it appears that the phenomenon of interlimb interaction (or sympathetic squeeze response) is nonetheless accepted. It was addressed in both the classes I've taken at Gunsite and see --

[1] http://www.danzanryu.com/interlimb.html

[2] http://www.co.clackamas.or.us/sheriff/firearms.htm

note at just above the middle of the page: "One issue of firearms safety that the FTU recognizes and works to prevent is interlimb interaction. This can cause deputies under stressful conditions to unintentionally discharge their weapons. Interlimb interaction (also called sympathetic squeeze) is the involuntary contraction of an individual’s hand and finger muscles. In law enforcement, we are very concerned with interlimb interaction as it relates to accidental discharges with firearms."

[3] http://www.springerlink.com/content/jll4mpwnl72lf44y/ (showing that interlimb interaction is recognized and studied scientifically)

Bix, great link and article. Thanks. I wasn't able to find anything that definitive. I'll be saving it as a reference. Much obliged.

I really hate to put it this way but is has become very TACTICOOL, so much of it is seen in the movies and televison programs you would think every one with a firearm has their trigger finger broken and splinted. They even have firearm instructors to teach the actors. Please don't take my statement as anti safety because the practice is valid.

Hand guns give little where else to place the "splinted" finger, so it is kind of a natural instinct to place the finger along side the guard. The Garand has the saftey excatly in the position where you have to have your finger inside the trigger guard,????? go figure???. The new style military and para military rifles are ones that the practice enforces.

Where in hunting long guns most have pistol grip style stocks and placing the thumb over the wrist of the stock and the finger straight out along side the guard is an awkward position even though some have the safteys at the front of the trigger guard.

The longuns with the tang style,three position wing , or side safteys are extremely hard to operate with the broken splinted index finger glued to the trigger guard. Try to thumb back the hammer on a Marlin or Winchester lever gun with that splinted finger along side the trigger guard,or flip that three positon saftey into fire position on "the" Riflemans rifle the pre '64 Model 70 Winchester, as a matter of fact try it with a thumbuster, single action Colt or Ruger six gun.

This is why the TACTICOOL monicker applys!

If you put your finger in the same place every time when not in use, you always know where it is. ;)

What's wrong with this picture:

http://holycrapthatsfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/hearing_protection.jpeg


Hello! He has his finger on the trigger! :what:

And you will notice, it's those damn open carry people again!

I think it's a positive thing. It's easier to tell when someone else has their finger on or off the trigger if their finger is extended. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Also, walk around for a while with a pistol in your hand and your trigger finger not touching the pistol. Now tell me without looking...how far away is that finger from the trigger? 1"? 2"? 1/16th? There's no tactile reference. It might be even harder in a stressful situation or a situation where you are stepping over things and walking through brush in the woods. If you have your finger touching the same part of your gun, you always know where your finger is....and that's a known safe place to put your finger. I'm fine with that.

...the practice is valid...Yes it is, and that's what's important.

...Hand guns give little where else to place the "splinted" finger, so it is kind of a natural instinct to place the finger along side the guard....It really doesn't have to be "splinted." Sort of straight is usually good enough. And the important thing is that it isn't along side the trigger guard. It's on the frame above the trigger guard. Along side the trigger guard isn't a good idea because of interlimb interaction (see discussion, above).

...The longuns with the tang style,three position wing , or side safteys are extremely hard to operate with the broken splinted index finger glued to the trigger guard. ... as a matter of fact try it with a thumbuster, single action Colt or Ruger six gun. ...I never really had a problem managing the safety on my SxS hunting gun or my Steyr Scout with my trigger finger more or less straight and indexed on the frame above the trigger guard. Never really had a problem managing my Colt SAA (shooting one handed) in my Cowboy Action Shooting days, either. It's all pretty much a matter of practice.

Couple of things. It is easily transferable from firearm to firearm. It is inherently more safe. If you feel the need to protect your trigger from "inanimate objects", you might want to make sure your safety is working. The biggest reason for it is if you get into a struggle for your weapon in a self defense situation, your first instinct is to tighten your grip and you do not want your trigger finger in a position where when you do squeeze, it can get onto the trigger. That's why it goes along the stock, slide, etc. rather than the front of the triggerguard.

I really hate to put it this way but is has become very TACTICOOL, so much of it is seen in the movies and televison programs you would think every one with a firearm has their trigger finger broken and splinted. They even have firearm instructors to teach the actors. Please don't take my statement as anti safety because the practice is valid.

Hand guns give little where else to place the "splinted" finger, so it is kind of a natural instinct to place the finger along side the guard. The Garand has the saftey excatly in the position where you have to have your finger inside the trigger guard,????? go figure???. The new style military and para military rifles are ones that the practice enforces.

Where in hunting long guns most have pistol grip style stocks and placing the thumb over the wrist of the stock and the finger straight out along side the guard is an awkward position even though some have the safteys at the front of the trigger guard.

The longuns with the tang style,three position wing , or side safteys are extremely hard to operate with the broken splinted index finger glued to the trigger guard. Try to thumb back the hammer on a Marlin or Winchester lever gun with that splinted finger along side the trigger guard,or flip that three positon saftey into fire position on "the" Riflemans rifle the pre '64 Model 70 Winchester, as a matter of fact try it with a thumbuster, single action Colt or Ruger six gun.

This is why the TACTICOOL monicker applys!
+1

If has been my experience that I have no mental control over inanimate objects in the woods. For example if a branch is bent and loaded with potential energy because a log had fallen on it and you step on that log it could be released and swing with considerable force. Naturally the safety should work to prevent the gun from firing if the trigger is hit in that situation but there's no such thing as being too safe.

So I cover the trigger well with my finger when travelling through dense brush to protect it from foreign objects entering. It's no unwritten law with me that my finger has to always be covering the trigger guard and if I am walking an open field or swamp then yes, as you imply there is no reason to cover it.

It’s difficult to get people who are used to flat terrain and hard surfaces to understand swamp stopping and brush busting.

I do protect the trigger without actually putting my finger inside the guard at least in heavy cover.

Um, many MILLIONS of army people, and Marine people and Airforce (ok not that many) and even some Navy people have walked this ruff and difficult terrain and didn't have to put a finger in the trigger gaurd to keep the brush out.

The way I was taugh was to:
carry in a comfortable manner until
you needed to shoot, then approach at the low ready with finger indexed
then you bring the gun up aim and shoot

So why are we arguing, this, I would think is a non starter
don't put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot
indexing your finger on the slide or above the trigger guard is a transferable skill

Personally, I've found it's a good way to teach trigger finger safety to the few people I've taken to the range. It's not the most natural way for somebody who has not handled a firearm before, causing them to actively think about where they have their trigger finger. It's one of the most basic rules of safe gun handling that if you aren't pointed at a target, don't have your finger on the trigger.

That said, years ago when I was shooting 3 position smallbore rifle, I did use about the same method as Ryder. Mostly because I was a lot smaller, so my fingers weren't long enough to wrap up around the relatively thick stock on some of the rifles we had. But the trigger guards were also not much larger than the trigger so your finger could wrap around the front part of the guard without much issue.

Ryder, when you said you keep your finger off the trigger RELAXED. If you are attacked, startled, or frightened you are NOT going to be relaxed. As you grip you weapon harder you WILL reflexively also curl your finger and and accidental discharge is likely. If you have been in any serious handgun or emergency response training you would also learn how important it is to have your finger away from the trigger. The "keeping twigs and such away from my trigger" argument is just silly. You don't have a safety on your rifles? If you are talking about a handgun what are you doing? Dragging it behind you? Your weapon should be in FRONT of you and in you sight. Its called muzzle awareness. You should be able to see things that may interfere with your weapon to keep it from touching the trigger. Do you also go through the brush with your eyes closed to keep twigs from getting in your eyes? your theory is pretty slim sir.

OMG!

First it's the one-in-the-pipe or not argument.

Then it's the open v. concealed carry argument.

Now it's the straight v. bent finger argument.

This is why the anti-s hold on to so much ground! :D

Can't we all just hug and get along!

http://www.rachelpapo.com/serialno3817131/images/95.jpg

I"ll join that hug. Heck yeah.

Quote:
IF your finger is on the trigger or in the well and you are in a tense situation, and you are startled, spooked, excited... the natural reaction is to SQUEEZE...

Been thinking on this. I'm calling shenanigans. Nothing personal, I have heard it said in the past. In fact I agree it sounds logical, but it is not probable. Not only has it never happened to me I've never seen it happen to others or had others tell me it happened to them in my lifetime.


I know someone who was shot because someone else had their finger near the trigger and tried to do something with their gun in their hand. It is possible so I quess that makes it probable to some degree. It's also not probable you are going to get in a gunfight with 4 crackheads tonight but it is possible.

I feel that having one's finger on the trigger for no reason is very irresponsible, that is how accidents happen.

Its my "anti DQ flag" in competition. And, if I ever do need to use a pistol to defend myself, I hope that this habit will carry over.

Nothing would ruin my day more than putting a bullet into someone without having made the decision to do so, except perhaps getting shot myself, of course.

When I was a teenager I was walking down the road where I live (in the country) with my Dad's Mossberg 243. I had my finger "relaxed" in the trigger well. That is until the deafening BOOOOOMMMMM I heard scared the dickens out of me. I was walking calmly down the road, not banging around in the brush. If your practice is to keep your finger on the trigger, before you intend to fire, one day you will regret that choice. If you think hunting with your finger on the trigger makes more sense than using the safety and keeping your finger off the trigger I would almost bank on it.

I look at it as a protocol type safe practice that acts as a courtesy to those around you. Seeing people handle weapons makes you much more comfortable if you see an empty trigger guard the entire time. It's common practice for a reason, it works well.

Actually, it appears that the phenomenon of interlimb interaction (or sympathetic squeeze response) is nonetheless accepted

Read your links fiddletown. Thanks, that was interesting.

It appears they are looking for an excuse for why shooters with a predisposition to pull the trigger did so. The examples presented are people in a situation already known to be threatening. They've got it in their mind to shoot if anything happens and when something does they fire the gun.

That is not a good example of an involuntary and unintentional reaction IMO.

...That is not a good example of an involuntary and unintentional reaction IMO. And check out the article at the link posted by Bix in post 54. Anyway, I'm going with what they teach at Gunsite, what the Clackamas County Sheriff firearms trainers seems to think and what a Ph. D. physiologist has written.

Anyway, I'm going with what they teach at Gunsite, what the Clackamas County Sheriff firearms trainers seems to think and what a Ph. D. physiologist has written.

Nothing wrong with that. Lots of people relinquish their ability to reason for themselves in preference to what others tell them. I've trained enough to know the importance of discriminating for myself what is useful and what isn't rather than rely on others. Not just because trainers contradict each other and are constantly modifying their own techniques (if they're any good). But because no two of us are exactly alike and what they attempt to present is a one size fits all theory.

Here's an item you might find interesting regarding what I said about people looking for an excuse to pull the trigger?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

When questioned in a 2000 BBC documentary, the US government stated in a written answer that they believed the incident may have been caused by a simultaneous psychological condition amongst the 18 bridge crew of the Vincennes called 'scenario fulfillment', which is said to occur when persons are under pressure. In such a situation, the men will carry out a training scenario, believing it to be reality while ignoring sensory information that contradicts the scenario. In the case of this incident, the scenario was an attack by a lone military aircraft.

Thanks again for the feedback.

It also goes directly to the ' 4 Golden rules ' - Never point a gun at something you're not willing to destroy. Since you were a little kid, you've always pointed your 'gun' finger like that . If you keep that finger aligned with the barrel it's a reminder that it should Never be swept across your foot or your buddy's torso. That finger has a lot of power now that you're older. Use it wisely.
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/houston-teen-suspended-for-pointing-finger-gun-at-teacher