i was with my dad and a friend today on another friends land, we were shooting my ar and a shot gun. my dad knows guns decently well but his friend doesn't know much. well while i was shooting my ar my dad tells his friend how the ak-47 can shoot even if its covered in mud but the ar will jam if it gets dirty. so this ticked my off and i decided to so him that the ar is a lot more reliable then he thought, so i preceded to grab dirt(the dirt that is like sand) and pour it on the bolt, bolt carrier, and the mag. i poured it with the bolt both open and closed, put the mag in and fired 10-15rnds. with out a jam, then i had 1 jam, but after clearing it i fired another 60rnds. with out a hitch.i decided not to clean it until the day was over, when we were packing up the rifle had 250+rnds. with only 1 jam.needless to say my dad has more respect for the ar platform and so do i.which brings me to this post, i wanted to start a thread with pictures of any dirty but still functioning rifle.
here are my pics.(after 250+rnds.)
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April 19, 2010, 10:47 PM
No, You cant ever borrow any of my guns EVER!
The Ar your dad knew, Is not the AR of today. This is good.
And the AK of yesterday, Isnt the AK of today. This is bad. Mainly due to import laws of course.
April 19, 2010, 11:10 PM
I would not put dirt in my gun to prove a point. Rust will build, you waited untill the day ended to clean it? bad move. AR is like $1000 thats alot to be risking to prove a point.
April 19, 2010, 11:17 PM
Seriously, go clean your rifle!!
April 19, 2010, 11:18 PM
Thank you for your torture test.
April 19, 2010, 11:24 PM
Yes, thank you for the test. I'm definately glad it was someone else's weapon and not mine.
April 19, 2010, 11:35 PM
i cleaned it about 3hrs. after i threw dirt on it, so no worries there.(ammo went fast and its only a 20min. drive)
i was kind of hoping i wasn't the only person "curious"(or stupid) enough to try this.
this ar only cost me $650 and i plan on changing the barrel soon to make it my target ar, which means no more torture tests.
i also forgot to mention that the rifle was lubed with grease when i dirtied it up, not sure if thats a good thing but it didn't have but 1 jam so i cant see that it could be a bad thing.
April 19, 2010, 11:58 PM
I am curious what the jam was. Failure to feed, extract or whatever.
Thanks for sharing.
April 20, 2010, 12:21 AM
ONLY cost 650.00!! You must be flushed with extra cash.
April 20, 2010, 12:28 AM
no, im pretty much broke but i figure $650 isn't that much for a decent ar.
as to the jam, it was a failure to extract, i had to bang the stock on the ground but not too hard. i think the fact that it was steel cased ammo had a hand in causing the jam.
i plan on only using brass from now on.
April 20, 2010, 03:44 AM
That's just stupid.
April 20, 2010, 04:32 AM
Don't let these guys get down on you for testing YOUR GUN!! it wasn't a collector and you were defending your choice of weapon and learned a valuable lesson if the gun ever jams in real survival use, you will know what to expect, Lots of guns untested sitting on a shelf that are babied are not considered battle proven, no matter the brand, it doesn't do you any good to have a unreliable or untested weapon. every thing you done is easily cleanable and puts you ahead in the survival. so clean it good, keep her oiled, 1 jam makes her sound like a GEM.
April 20, 2010, 04:50 AM
steel cased ammo doesnt like dirty chambers. youll get that fte issue if you dont clean it out well. i learned this the hard way haha. ive wanted to try a similar test with my AR but cant bring myself to do it. pretty awesome that you only got 1 failure.
April 20, 2010, 07:46 AM
And I thought I had hefty huevos for tossing mine in the snow a few times!
Don't let the safe queen guardians ride you too hard. Your rifle was made for such treatment.. heck it probably even enjoyed it!
April 20, 2010, 08:23 AM
Reminds me of the time a buddy's friend had brought a new motorbike home and then proceeded to put a scratch in the paint intentionally. He said, "Now I don't have to baby her."
It's your rifle, and not a collectors piece. I found your test informational. I had a guy at work cry at me once because he knew I would go out in the rain and shoot. You did right, just break it down and clean/oil everything really well.
Carl N. Brown
April 20, 2010, 08:31 AM
It would be worse to pamper a gun, only to have it fail in an emergency situation due to an easily fixable problem that would have been found if it had been given a little stress in a field test.
April 20, 2010, 08:33 AM
I guess you showed them, right? :)
April 20, 2010, 09:04 AM
Well, It's interesting to read about an AR that has sand poured into it and shoots all day as opposed to an AR that is cleaned and lubed with latest space-age, moly-something graphite filled super grease and shoots all day.
Kinda looks at the issue in a different light.
Thanks for the test (On YOUR gun)!
April 20, 2010, 11:30 AM
I've done the same to a HK91 with gravel from a lead smelter. I eventually got around to cleaning it.
There are a couple of recent posts on TOS about one AR that was stripped with brake cleaner and shot for 2,500 rounds, no stoppages, no lube at all. Another was posted by a carbine class instructor who has a loaner AR that wasn't cleaned for 25,000 rounds, just lubed, and worn parts replaced.
Long distance precision shooters don't ever clean the barrel unless they are putting it up for a long time. I shot .22 International in high school, we only cleaned them before summer break. It would take a few weeks in the fall to get them back to a consistent accuracy.
Cleaning AR's is a superstition. Running them dry is specifically contrary to military user level maintenance, but they can and will do it very well. Most experienced users - actual veterans, Reserves, NG - know this. 99% of the public has no clue. They repeat what they have been told and never find out for themselves.
Having cleaned to inspection standards a few M16's over 22 years, I understand now what works and what is BS. Scraping the bolt tail, swabbing out the bore until no trace of color shows, brushing the BCG until the parkerizing wears off are more likely to be abuse than maintenance. If you use enough lube, the bolt tail wipes off; barrels with some contamination will be more consistent;the friction points on a BCG are very specific.
What causes most malfunctions are magazines and ammo - steel case in this instance. Spend time and money on them and stoppages will go down. Buy good mags, shoot good ammo, and you've done most of what can be done.
April 20, 2010, 01:50 PM
Thanks for the test and report. I wouldn't have thought you would have had such good results, and with steel case ammo no less. The internets had me believing that much less than that would shut it down.
April 20, 2010, 08:37 PM
Good for you. It belongs to you. Don't let someone else tell you how to treat YOUR rifle. If some of you guys saw how I treated shotguns during duck season, you would puke. Dirt, rain, slime-whatever. Dumped an Ithaca Mag 10 in the drink once and had to fish it off the bottom of the Straits. Openned the action, dumped the slime, silt and mud out and STILL killed ducks. How is this any different? My Shotgun cost as much as a GOOD AR. Use the hell out of it. Your kids can buy their OWN rifle.
April 20, 2010, 09:21 PM
i think i will leave this upper as a "test" upper and just buy a match upper when finances are in my favor.
i'm actually really glad i did this test because now when someone i know says how the ar is unreliable i can show them these pics, and if thats not good enough i'll challenge them to buy however many rounds they want and run the test again.
maybe next time i'll take a camera and put it on youtube.
April 20, 2010, 09:40 PM
Cool. I'd invest in a small can of Gun Scrubber and good goggles just to make sure shes clean. Start. And finish.
April 20, 2010, 10:32 PM
dirty rifle pics.
Shucks, I thought the post was gonna be gun-porn.
April 20, 2010, 11:43 PM
I don't get the flack for getting it a little dirty.:confused: If a little dirt hurts it, it wasn't much of a rifle. These are supposed to be modern military weapons, they are supposed to be designed for very hard use.
Rifles like these to me are tools, they are ment to go bang and put rounds on target. I beat on them to see where the weak parts are and fix them.
Good test, from what I have seen the AR is quite reliable provided its kept lubed. You can get them dirty has can be and as long as you keep dumping oil in, they will run.