[kd7nqb]

Alright so heres the deal, I am not new to shotguns but am new to clay games. When I shot my first sporting clays match a while back I FELL IN LOVE. But there was no doubt that the event was lacking a young demographic.

So I think it would be cool to have an occasional match where instead of fine over under shotguns and engraved side by sides the theme of the match was a more tactical approach.

Here are the basic outlines of the game as I see it.

20in MAX barrel length
All guns must be either semi-auto or pump action
4rnd Min Magazine/ tube

I know that the throwers would have to be set up for some easier shots and none of those "reach out and touch someone" targets.

The idea would be to attract a little different audience. I would not expect the general clay games crowd to instantly support this but it might be a fun once in a while change of pace.

I envision an event full of everything from 18.5in Mossberg 500's to tricked out FN SLP's and maybe even a saiga or two.

Am I nuts? Or do you think this would be an interesting change of pace?

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

I think it would be a cool idea.

[gfpd707]

I have always wanted to shoot clays that are being thrown at me. Don't know if this exists but I thought it would be cool

[throdgrain]

You can shoot sporting clays with whatever gun you like, I use a pump or a semi-auto.

If you just want them made easier I'm sure someone can help :p :D

[UKShooter]

On the last stand in a round of skeet the high house is coming right at you, well slightly high and a tiny bit to your right but mostly straight at you. If you shoot it right at the last minute you will get showered with bits of clay. VERY FUN :D

[DaleCooper51]

Most of the time I shoot a 30" Over Under at skeet, but broke out the 7 shot 20" Maverick last weekend. It was a good time shooting it and it got passed around and shot a bunch. The cylinder bore is no handicap for skeet.

One thing to note with the short guns is that muzzle discipline is extremely important. They are short and can easily be pointed in the wrong direction.

Here are the basic outlines of the game as I see it.

20in MAX barrel length
All guns must be either semi-auto or pump action
4rnd Min Magazine/ tube


I really wouldn't put too many restrictions on the guns people shoot. You want as many folks out shooting as possible. Not everyone has a short barreled pump for around the house. Some use coach guns, turkey guns, or whatever hunting gun they have around. Also the large magazine capacity is a non issue, unless shooting a flurry, at most you would have two shells in your gun for doubles.

[ArmedBear]

unless shooting a flurry, at most you would have two shells in your gun for doubles.

Not true. Special 5-stand rounds are sometimes shot with 3 rounds. But there are also 3 targets in the air. So, kd7nqb, are you ready to shoot 4? 'Cause if you load 4, that means you're shooting at 4. Note that even 3-shot clays is a faster way to burn through cash than most of what you find in Vegas.

The only thing I'd want to shoot with a shorter gun is Skeet. In that case, an extended magazine would make it easier, by adding weight to the muzzle end.

Am I nuts?

Well, why don't you rent a range on an off day, and post flyers? See if you lose your shirt.

Some other ideas:

Special Olympic Free Pistol. PPC with a T/C Contender, and you have to wear a circus clown costume. Oh wait... Barry O went there and pissed off the Schwarzeneggers... :D

Barney Miller 900. Like NRA Bullseye, but you have to wear a really ugly polyester leisure suit with an ugly extra-wide tie, and shoot with a stock fixed-sight .38 snubbie drawn from a shoulder holster under your suit jacket.

Duke Boys Trap. Standard 16 yard singles, shot with a compound bow and a stick of dynamite on the arrow. 2-person teams of "lighter" and "shooter".

On a more serious note... Sporting Clays doesn't have a "theme". That's Cowboy Action. Join up, buy a Dillon and a bunch of guns (minimum 4 to start, with some custom gunsmithing highly recommended), buy a wardrobe, and pick a cute name. Have fun. And don't forget to learn the derogatory names for the guys who are trying to shoot the best score.

At the Sporting Clays range, I have seen very few side-by-sides, but more than a few pump guns. Some guys are pretty damn good with pumps; the range closest to my house has a whole pump division when they put on a shoot. Semiautos are common, and pretty much mandatory for the 3-target shoots. There is nothing stopping you from bringing your "tactical" guns to the range and having a go. Hell, bring a few friends and make bets amongst yourselves.

If you really want to shoot clays with the guns in question, though, I'd suggest starting with Skeet. That's cheaper, and just as challenging.

What you might find, though, is that the reason many people shoot target O/Us is not because there's some sort of "theme", but because they work well when you want to break targets. A high-end competition O/U is not cheap, so many buyers do add a few bucks to make them prettier. However, a lot of top shooters have top-quality, yet very plain-looking guns. See Olympic medalists, for example.

[oneounceload]

take your gun to the local skeet club, and if they let you use it, shoot skeet with it from a low gun position, not premounted - that includes station 8..........lots of challenge

[Zach S]

I like this idea, and have often thought about doing it. But its hard enough to get to the range now. I miss being able to shoot off of my back porch...

Also the large magazine capacity is a non issue, unless shooting a flurry, at most you would have two shells in your gun for doubles.haha, one round a bird. If you miss, you reload and try again.

Sure, you'd just miss the same bird twice, but think of how fast you'll get at reloading:D

[MisterHappy]

Interesting idea....but Keep it simple!

I'd not limit the guns - if someone wants to bring a fine double, well....there's still 3 targets. At my club we have one shooter that does Trap with a Stoeger Coach Gun (20" bbl break open) since it has full choke tubes in it, it works...but he starts to feel it after a couple of rounds!

We were having "Hunter's Doubles" - trap set to throw two birds, on wobble, not from the usual Trap stations, slow or fast pull - puller's choice! One guy shot 4 times to break 2 birds...everyone cried "foul" as they had doubles - he pointed out that there was no restriction on how many rounds in you gun for upland bird huntng! LOL!

Go for it....if nothing else, it will be a learining experience!

Good luck

[oneounceload]

We had a 5-stand where I lived that had an overhead target going away. Now and again we would set it up for a flurry. An overturned 55 gallon drum was next to you as you set up your shells in pairs. Starting with a loaded gun, you called pull and a pair was launched every 4 seconds - ready or not. If you bumped that drum, they'd all fall over making it a wee bit harder - lots of fun though

[blitzen]

I bet if I took all the guys I know who have tacticool shotguns to a sporting clays range it would be pretty humbling. As it is for most people. They might figure out that those old guys with stack bbls might be on to something. Sounds fun.

[throdgrain]

They might also get nasty wear marks on thier pump action slides, they surely wouldnt want that would they ? :p ;)

[oletymer]

Blitzen hit it on the head. Most tacticool shooters can't hit their butt with both hands.

[Zach S]

They might also get nasty wear marks on thier pump action slides, they surely wouldnt want that would they ?

You mean these?

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/zephyr351c/0430101004.jpg

They'd be a lot worse if cheap buckshot pattered worth a crap or I'd send the bbl off to get threaded for chokes...

[throdgrain]

Most of the pictures of tacticool shotguns dont seem to have any wear marks at all as far as I've seen :)

[ArmedBear]

Blitzen hit it on the head. Most tacticool shooters can't hit their butt with both hands.

The last ones I saw broke a few large target stands at the rifle range, at 25 yards.

I'm sure they went back to the comic book store and bragged about their prowess, though.

[batmann]

Neat idea. You could make the max round 5 and min 2, that would include those with the 'coach' guns and also include most of the 'tactical' home guns as most of them have 5 round mags.
Type of shot would need standardized, such as 00 Buck, 0 Buck etc. sounds like fun.

[Zach S]

Most of the pictures of tacticool shotguns dont seem to have any wear marks at all as far as I've seen
I wont argue with that...

I've noticed the same thing with tactical rifles.

[blitzen]

Don't miss quote me. I didn't say that tactical shooters can't shoot. It's just that hitting steel plates or clay targets on a rack is a little different than hitting a 45 mph crossing target with a window of about 3/100s of a second to do it. Most have never tried.

[ArmedBear]

It's fair to say that many, probably most, people who buy "tactical" stuff can't shoot, and don't shoot much.

However, there is a minority that shoots often, and well, generally in competition. Of course, they probably don't have $800 worth of dubious crap hung on a stock 870 Express with no signs of use, either.:D

That said, Miculek's shotguns don't look like Bender's, but they a close look reveals that they have little in common with mall-ninja guns, either, apart from being black. Miculek's shotguns seem to be set up more like skeet guns with mag extensions.

It's just that hitting steel plates or clay targets on a rack is a little different than hitting a 45 mph crossing target with a window of about 3/100s of a second to do it. Most have never tried.

It seems that most who try, can't quit.:D

[throdgrain]

Fair point ArmedBear, generalistations are to the detriment of us all.

[ArmedBear]

Fair point ArmedBear, generalistations are to the detriment of us all.

Oh, I don't know. The ability to make quick judgments based on various factors is part of our evolved survival mechanisms.

IMO, one can generalize pretty well: if I see someone shooting "tactical" guns at the range, I figure they are either incompetent and even dangerous to be around, or they're competition-level shooters (within the bounds of their particular disciplines anyway), one or the other, without much in between. I don't believe I have been proven wrong very often.:)

[Justin]

Rather than trying to "tacticalize" sporting clays, why not just seek out a sport that's already "tactical" and attend local 3Gun matches?

In the last few years, some 3Gun matches have been including aerial clays launched via the activation of steel targets. While I'm sure the Sporting Clays guys would consider clays launched by flippers and throwers at a 3Gun match to be fairly easy shots, they do add yet another level of variety to the sport.

[jpatterson]

I've actually been doing this lately with my 18" 590a1 with GRS. It is HARD, but very very fun. I usually use my 1187, but I like a challenge :)

[throdgrain]

lmao my generalisation was more that all tacticool shooters spend more time taking photos of thier guns and talking about 'em on the internet than they do shooting them.

As I said, not always a correct assumption :)

[Dave McCracken]

I've known some "Tactical" types that were stone deadly on handthrown clays.

In 1981, at my first instructor's course, the FBI agents who ran it broke out a hand thrower and some White Flyers. Using the riot guns we brought from the institutions, we shot flat going away targets with 8 shot and then mixed things up a little for the advanced student, me included. Everything was low gun, and when they added a manual trap launcher and didn't tell us which was going next, things got interesting.

We liked it so much, well some of us did, that we started doing the same at our home range in Jessup.

More tactical types should shoot some clays. Great training on sight acquisition, speed and vector analysis.

And if in even casual competition a shooter can obliterate two clays moving in different directions and speeds in a fraction of a second, larger, slower,closer targets pose less of a problem.

[MisterHappy]

One word of caution - unneeded, likely but still... If you're using buck loads on clays, remember that the shotfall range will be greater than with birdshot....

[50caliber123]

I know a guy who set up clay target throwers some 70yds or so out and him and his friends were shooting Remington 870's and 100's with short barrels. Ten target throwers automatically throwing 100 clays each. He said that if they didn't knock them down fast enough, they would get hit by the clays and that is hurt! I'd try it though...

[ArmedBear]

lmao my generalisation was more that all tacticool shooters spend more time taking photos of thier guns and talking about 'em on the internet than they do shooting them.

As I said, not always a correct assumption

Not always, but usually...

Like I said: two kinds of people I've known and seen with tactical guns. Good shooters, and non-shooters.

[Carter]

Haha I love the idea. Sounds kinda like back in the day with the nintendo games where you actually got a gun for a controller.

[xx7grant7x]

We had a 5-stand where I lived that had an overhead target going away. Now and again we would set it up for a flurry. An overturned 55 gallon drum was next to you as you set up your shells in pairs. Starting with a loaded gun, you called pull and a pair was launched every 4 seconds - ready or not. If you bumped that drum, they'd all fall over making it a wee bit harder - lots of fun though

I like the sound of that and the clays thrown by steel silhouettes. A fun stage of multiple targets thrown in rapid succession (I.E. hit em fast, and while they're close), combined with steel plate/target throwers and maybe it could be something challenging and fun. I shoot clays with an 870 wingmaster but I love bringing the saiga along to try and get em coming out of the gate. To each their own though

[roo_ster]

The place I shot some trap at last week forbids anything with a bbl of 20" or less. Biggest danged trap/skeet/5-gun place I have ever been to.

[Justin]

I like the sound of that and the clays thrown by steel silhouettes. A fun stage of multiple targets thrown in rapid succession (I.E. hit em fast, and while they're close), combined with steel plate/target throwers and maybe it could be something challenging and fun.

You mean something like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTM55KNLTJI#t=3m07s) :)

[Zak Smith]

http://demigodllc.com/data-video/JJ3G2008B.thumb-00:10.jpg
video | 2008 Johnson 3-Gun Match, First Person Video, Part 2/2 http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.demigodllc.com/video_serve.php?id=JJ3G2008B)

Shotgun extravaganza starting at 2:32

[AWorthyOpponent]

I guess myself and a couple friends do a "Tactical" clay shooting thing every once in a while. What we do is bring the mossberg 500, Rem 870 and whatever else people want to bring. Our rule is pistol Grip Shotguns only. We have two clay throwers and throw one per second (6 clays total). This means that you have to rapid fire for the most part (an easier task for the semi autos obviously). It is a lot of fun. Next time we do it, I'll record it (hopefully I remember) and post on here.

[devildog32713]

I have always wanted to shoot clays that are being thrown at me. Don't know if this exists but I thought it would be cool

sounds like a reflexive shooting tactical challange, Im up for it, doesn't exist? then we can bring it into being then :D

[DoubleTapDrew]

I have always wanted to shoot clays that are being thrown at me. Don't know if this exists but I thought it would be cool
I went on my first bird hunt last year and on the first day we shot clays (a first for me too). There were several stations but the most fun was "star wars", an endless blitz of clays coming right at you (throwers were behind a berm at the top of a hill). Several times I had to step out of the way to avoid getting hit by a clay while reloading. It was a blast!
I de-tacticaled my 870 for that trip though. Swapped out the 18" cylinder bore barrel for a 28" modified, and took off the surefire foreend and youth synthetic stock and put the wood stocks back on.

[oneounceload]

I have always wanted to shoot clays that are being thrown at me. Don't know if this exists but I thought it would be cool

Unfortunately, many places won't due to liability if you get hit by one (they hurt if you're close). I prefer the high incomers - gets me ready for dove season - my English friends like those because it gets them ready for their driven pheasant season