Permanatly afixing a Masterkey to a Rifle


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FIVETWOSEVEN
May 2, 2010, 04:14 PM
The question is if you put a shotgun on a rifle with a 18inch barrel permanently but the barrel on the shotgun is under 18, is this legal without a tax stamp?

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General Geoff
May 2, 2010, 04:15 PM
No. The shotgun must have a minimum barrel length of 18" or it requires a stamp.

FIVETWOSEVEN
May 2, 2010, 04:17 PM
its just that both guns are made one and it has a 18in barrel on it.

natman
May 2, 2010, 04:24 PM
Explain what you want to do in detail, in writing to:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
National Firearms Act Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 USA
Voice (304) 616-4500
Fax (304) 616-4501

Accept no substitutes.

Then find out if it is legal in your state.

General Geoff
May 2, 2010, 04:28 PM
its just that both guns are made one and it has a 18in barrel on it.

Still has two receivers, so it's still two guns, even if they're attached to one another. It's the same reason that mounting a Glock onto an AR-15 bayonet-style is legally considered making a SBR. The Glock's barrel length is not overwritten by the AR's barrel length.

TexasRifleman
May 2, 2010, 04:59 PM
its just that both guns are made one and it has a 18in barrel on it.

How do you propose to "make them one" in a permanent and irreversible manner? That's the key.

Still has two receivers, so it's still two guns, even if they're attached to one another. It's the same reason that mounting a Glock onto an AR-15 bayonet-style is legally considered making a SBR. The Glock's barrel length is not overwritten by the AR's barrel length.

Yep. The ATF would have to be convinced the attachment was permanent and irreversible. Tough sell to do that, and I'm still not sure it would work.

Explain what you want to do in detail, in writing to:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
National Firearms Act Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 USA
Voice (304) 616-4500
Fax (304) 616-4501


This. If you can convince them the attachment is permanent you might have a shot, but I don't give you good odds.

FIVETWOSEVEN
May 2, 2010, 07:23 PM
I do want to get a masterkey to put on a AR 15 but its in the future and I wouldn't make it permanant just something that I though of.

Would it be legal to saw off one of the barrels on a double?

FIVETWOSEVEN
May 2, 2010, 07:27 PM
500th post :D

Can you get a Masterkey through a Class III from Knights Armament?

kingpin008
May 2, 2010, 08:38 PM
Would it be legal to saw off one of the barrels on a double?

No. As stated above, it's not about the barrels - it's the fact that there are TWO receivers. One for the Masterkey, and one for whatever you attach it to. You could saw off both barrels of a O/U or SxS and attach a Masterkey, but they'd still be two seperate firearms in the eyes of the ATF.

Can you get a Masterkey through a Class III from Knights Armament?

Why not email them and ask?

seanie!
May 3, 2010, 01:32 AM
On one of the usual NFA marketplace sites, I saw Remington underbarrel mounted shotguns. I'm not sure if they were official KA Masterkeys, or a clone type of deal. I wish I could remember what page it was.

FIVETWOSEVEN
May 3, 2010, 05:05 PM
Quote:
Would it be legal to saw off one of the barrels on a double?

No. As stated above, it's not about the barrels - it's the fact that there are TWO receivers. One for the Masterkey, and one for whatever you attach it to. You could saw off both barrels of a O/U or SxS and attach a Masterkey, but they'd still be two seperate firearms in the eyes of the ATF.

What I was asking doesn't relate to a Masterkey, just sawing off One of the barrels on a double barrel.

TexasRifleman
May 3, 2010, 05:42 PM
What I was asking doesn't relate to a Masterkey, just sawing off One of the barrels on a double barrel.

A shotgun must have a shoulder stock and barrel at least 18 inches long. Anything you do that breaks that would be illegal without an NFA tax stamp.

kingpin008
May 3, 2010, 06:17 PM
What I was asking doesn't relate to a Masterkey, just sawing off One of the barrels on a double barrel.

So...you want to pay for a double-barreled shotgun, but only if it's crippled and capable of firing from a single barrel. Gotcha. :scrutiny:

Zoogster
May 3, 2010, 06:53 PM
Have to have 18" barrel.

This. If you can convince them the attachment is permanent you might have a shot, but I don't give you good odds.

That would meet the 26" overall requirement if you could make the ATF happy that it was "permanent" and not a separate shotgun. But it would still need an 18" barrel.



The design is also not practical. While it looks menacing, and certainly gives you a shotgun on a rifle, which at first sounds like a plus, it adds significant forward weight.
A lot of forward weight throws off the balance of the gun, and uses leverage against you. You could regain the balance by adding more rear weight with a heavier stock, but then you have a much heavier gun overall, and the whole point of the AR is as a light weight and handy rifle/carbine.
If you are going to get that heavy you might as well go up in caliber and get a battle rifle since you have removed most of the positive attributes of a semi-auto AR platform.

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