Anyone have a Kel Tec P11 & a PF9?


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josephbw
May 2, 2010, 11:25 PM
I'm interested in how the two compare as far as recoil, ease of getting back on target for the 2nd shot, and concealed carry differences. I have a P11, and I'm thinking about getting a PF9. I would like to know how the two compare, and if it would be advantageous to get the PF9 for concealed carry over the P11?

I'm pretty happy with the P11, but if I could reduce the mass of my carry gun, that would be a good thing. Any comments appreciated.

Thanks, Joe

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Mike J
May 3, 2010, 12:45 AM
I only have the P-11 myself joseph. Unless I'm badly mistaken though the PF9 is only about .120 thinner than the P11. I have heard the PF9 has a better trigger though. You might want to dig around at www.ktog.org there is a lot of info on these guns there.

Old John
May 3, 2010, 10:05 AM
My DSW has a PF9.
She loves it. She carries it in her jeans pocket in an Uncle mikes pocket holster.
She did have a P11. It was an early one with the 10# trigger. Now they make the P11
with an 8.5# trigger. The trigger on the PF9 is a lot lighter and easier to shoot.
The P11 has 10 + 1 rounds in a double stack mag. The PF9 has I think, 7 + 1 rounds in a single stack.
The PF9 fits in her pocket but the P11 was way too thick.
I got the P11 now, it's okay. But, I'm going to send it back to them to get the lighter trigger.
OBTW, get the trigger shoe that goes on the trigger to widen it. It makes it easier on range sessions & lots of rounds.
It's a good choice. Have Fun.

Nico Testosteros
May 3, 2010, 10:34 AM
I have a P11. My friend has a PF9. I haven't fired it yet but I have dry fired it.
The PF9 trigger is smoother and lighter than that of the P11 is all I can say.
I'll post more after we go to the range and swap guns.

speaksoftly
May 3, 2010, 10:46 AM
I have a PF-9 and my grandfather in law has a P-11. I've handled both guns and though there is a small difference in size to the PF-9, in terms of concealed carry I think it's a pretty large difference. In shooting you won't realize that much of a change but if you concealed carry, you know that even the smallest differences in size and ergonomics can make a world of difference on your 8th or 9th hour of carry. I love my PF-9 and can't imagine selling it (and I'm the kind of guy who'd sell my mother for the right price haha).

Also note, the PF-9 is a carry gun. It's not going to be something that you want to take to the range every weekend. It's straight as can be and the trigger's not bad but the kick is definitely there. For self defense, I love it but it's definitely something you want to practice with before you carry.

Here's the best review you'll ever see of the PF-9.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRbkOdUgms <------Part #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aLx1v2AY1M&feature=channel <--------Part #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgOPmGkpPAM&feature=channel <-----Shooting Test

LeverGunJunkie
May 3, 2010, 12:59 PM
Had both. Sold the P-11 after I bought and used my PF9. Both similar guns. Ihad an early model P11. Like the trigger and ergonomics of the PF9 better. Both were very concealable, but the PF9 was superior in that aspect because of the single stack configuration. Equally accurate. Get the PF9, it is worth the upgrade.

gb6491
May 3, 2010, 03:44 PM
I had both and still have the P-11. I liked most aspects of the PF-9; however, I could not get it to work reliably when shooting one handed at waist level. I tried various loads with no joy. I'm sure that the malfunctions were a result of "limp wristing" (as the gun functioned perfectly when shot with two handed holds and one handed with my arm fully extended); I just could not provide enough resistance for the gun to cycle reliably in a one handed waist level position (YMMV). I also had the extractor spring screw come loose (blue loctite fix).
On the other hand, my P-11 works pretty much without out error (it does not like the KT 12 round magazines). It fills my hand better and is much more comfortable for me to shoot (if that's a consideration). In regards to it's heavier trigger pull; that's probably why it works for me in the position that the PF-9 didn't (gives me a little firmer grip with my trigger finger). I also like that the P-11 has second strike capability (even though I've never needed it).
http://i40.tinypic.com/1594pc.jpg
P-11 stats:
Weight 14 oz.
Length: 5.6"
Height: 4.3"
Width: 1"
Barrel Length: 3.1"
Capacity: 10 + 1
P-9 stats:
Weight 12.7 oz.
Length: 5.85"
Height: 4.3"
Width: .88"
Barrel Length: 3.1"
Capacity: 7 + 1

Regards,
Greg

josephbw
May 3, 2010, 09:46 PM
Thanks guys, I appreciate the info. I have done some things to make my P11 a more user friendly gun, such as the "Fluff and Buff", reduced the trigger spring weight, the add on trigger shoe, and a Handall Jr. grip sleeve.

The problem is that as I've grown older, my pants have shrunk, and using my Smartcarry belly band holster has become more difficult. With a little thinner and lighter gun, maybe some of those issues will be lessened. I think the biggest difference would be less ammo weight in the pistol, and in the spare magazine.

Once again, I thank you for your responses, and I will take all of them into consideration.

BTW, can anyone recommend a good IWB concealed holster for the PF9?

speaksoftly
May 3, 2010, 09:59 PM
I use the Uncle Mikes IWB holster. I know it's not a flashy $300 leather holster but it's perfect for me. It's soft and thin which makes it easier to conceal. It's sized so that you could probably use it on your other compact(s) as well. And the material it's made it is great for keeping moisture off it. I deal with sweat in this Texas heat and I like not having to worry about ruining leather when it comes to that. Also, at the price of them, the worst you'd do is not like your $15 holster.

P.S. Biggest perk of the PF-9 other than the ergonomics IMHO? I love the sights. I had a Ruger LCP and hated the sights but the PF-9 had real sights unlike many compacts.

wow6599
May 3, 2010, 10:09 PM
I've had both....still have the P11.

The PF9 has better sights, it's thinner, has a much better trigger and is drop safe.
The P11 holds more rounds and has less felt recoil (size).

The biggest, and most important difference between the two is that the PF9 is not nearly as reliable as the P11. Mine wasn't, my father-in-laws isn't, several people I personally know got rid of PF9's because of reliability issues and some of the good folks over at KTOG have had similar experiences with the P11 being a more reliable piece. YMMV

speaksoftly
May 3, 2010, 10:23 PM
The biggest, and most important difference between the two is that the PF9 is not nearly as reliable as the P11. Mine wasn't, my father-in-laws isn't, several people I personally know got rid of PF9's because of reliability issues and some of the good folks over at KTOG have had similar experiences with the P11 being a more reliable piece. YMMV

This is my only worry about my PF-9. I've heard horror stories about them. I've only shot a few hundred rounds through mine and have only had two failures that were both in the initial break in period. Still, there's always the reliability issue in the back of my head.

wow6599
May 3, 2010, 10:30 PM
Kel-Tec just needs to come out with a new P11 with the sights, grip texture and trigger of the PF9......the best of both worlds.

snooperman
May 4, 2010, 09:07 AM
I bought it about 12 years ago and for the money believe it to be one of the best 9mm for CCW you can get. Mine has been very reliable from day one and would highly recommend it. I have no experience with the newer PF9, but I am sure it is well made and have read good reviews about it.

Probie9
May 4, 2010, 09:24 AM
I just bought a used PF9 last week. I also have a P11 that I bought last year. I shot about 4 mags through the PF9 over the weekend and the recoil is a bit sharper. I had only on small hiccup, I didn't let the trigger reset on one shot.
It's not a lot smaller, but it is noticeable when carrying IWB.
I like the trigger a lot better and will probably be selling the P11.
Hope this helps.

LeverGunJunkie
May 4, 2010, 10:00 AM
I can only speak from my experience; but in the 200-250 rnds fired thru my PF-9, I haven't had a problem. Not one FTF, FTE, nothing (Knock on Wood). Everything from factory HPs to weaker target reloads, I haven't had a problem. The slide release is really, really stiff, but it is working out. Actually had more with my P-11 until Kel-tec replaced the slide for me. Great customer service.

Holster: I use a $26-$30 Don Hume IWB clip on. Not expensive, super comfortable, and I'm very happy. I've tried a couple others but always come back to this Don Hume holster.

pcwirepro
May 4, 2010, 10:21 AM
I carry a PF-9 on occasion and shoot it each time I go to the range. It has quite a bit of recoil and is hard on your trigger finger after repeated shooting. From the factory it had an issue with the mags dropping out when fired. After getting it back from Kel-Tec it hasn't missed a beat.

HiVelSword
May 4, 2010, 02:56 PM
I've put 250 rounds of ball and 40 rounds of my HP of choice and I've had no problems. The little thing is snappy but that's irrelevant. It disappears under a loose shirt in a bellyband. I wear it to work every day (for the past 19 months) and no one is the wiser.

It's also more accurate than a pistol like that deserves to be. For fun at the range, stage the pull. You will be surprised by the groups you achieve. Can I get mega-tight groups firing as fast as I can DAO? Of course not. But my hand can still cover it at 12 feet and that's good enough for its intended purpose.

MedWheeler
May 4, 2010, 09:42 PM
I don't have the eleven, and have only had the 9 for about a month or so. I really like the nine so far, but have only fired ball ammo through it as of yet (about a hundred or so, with no hang-ups.) I have been carrying a Bersa Thunder 380, which is probably closer to the 11 in size. The PF-9, being smaller, thinner, lighter, and firing a more powerful load, is substantially snappier than is the Bersa. I think comparing it to the 11 would probably be something like comparing the PPK 380 to the P3AT Kel-Tec.
At any rate, take the negative stuff you hear about the PF-9 in stride; it is, after all, a super-compact lightweight still priced well south of three Benjamins. It is also real easy to limp-wrist, and that may account for some of the negative feedback. (My old Grendel P-10, an ancestor to the Kel-Tec line, got much more reliable when I learned about limp-wristing.)

pcwirepro
May 4, 2010, 11:11 PM
It's also more accurate than a pistol like that deserves to be. For fun at the range, stage the pull. You will be surprised by the groups you achieve. Can I get mega-tight groups firing as fast as I can DAO? Of course not. But my hand can still cover it at 12 feet and that's good enough for its intended purpose.

I second the above statement.

gofastman
May 4, 2010, 11:17 PM
BTW, can anyone recommend a good IWB concealed holster for the PF9?
I would like to know as well.

The Tomcat
May 5, 2010, 02:28 AM
EDC is a PF-9 until something lighter and smaller in a 9mm comes out. I have a P11 with a .40 conversion kit (looking for .357 sig barrel) and a P3AT. I REALLY like Kel-Tecs. No problems with any of them. The PF-9 IS NOT a range gun but I have put a successful 200 painful rounds through it.

I carry the PF-9 in a Kholster. Very confortable and totally concealed.

Clipper
May 5, 2010, 05:16 AM
The only thing that would cause me to retire my PF-9 would be Kel-Tec finally coming out with a .45ACP...

Outstanding pistol.

Old Shooter
May 5, 2010, 01:39 PM
The problem is that as I've grown older, my pants have shrunk, and using my Smartcarry belly band holster has become more difficult. With a little thinner and lighter gun, maybe some of those issues will be lessened.

Yeah, those damn shrinking pants are the curse of the older man. I put a Kel-Tec belt clip on my P11 and it has worked very well for me. It's nice to just grab the gun and stick it on the belt and be gone. Works for me.

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