Zedicus
November 28, 2003, 09:40 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what transferable full autos are the lowest priced?
Lowest Priced Transferable Full auto = ?
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Kaxter
November 28, 2003, 09:42 PM
You can get a mac 10 for about 2500 new, 1800 used .
El Tejon
November 28, 2003, 09:43 PM
MACs.
Hkmp5sd
November 28, 2003, 10:28 PM
Mac 10/11s for $1,500-$2,500.
Reising and M2 Carbine for $3,000.
Stens for $3,000-$3,500.
S&W Model 76 for $3,500-$4,000.
Uzi for $4,000-$4,500.
Reising and M2 Carbine for $3,000.
Stens for $3,000-$3,500.
S&W Model 76 for $3,500-$4,000.
Uzi for $4,000-$4,500.
Psssniper
November 28, 2003, 10:59 PM
And remember the old saying
The two best days of a new Class 3 owners life are the day he gets his Mac and the day he sells it
The two best days of a new Class 3 owners life are the day he gets his Mac and the day he sells it
TheOtherOne
November 28, 2003, 11:48 PM
I fear I'll never own full auto. A Mac 10/11 is already out of my price range for a single gun. With prices only going up, my only chance is in the government repealing the ban. :(
Wildalaska
November 28, 2003, 11:48 PM
Sterlings are around 5K, MK 760s are about $2K
WildandtheyshouldbecheaperAlaska
WildandtheyshouldbecheaperAlaska
TheOtherOne
November 29, 2003, 08:40 AM
I'm always watching this page too, since the store is close by. They hardly every have anything that isn't already sold though and the only thing that is reasonably priced is for LEO.
http://www.impactguns.com/store/machineguns.html
They supposedly have Vector UZI's right now for $5,500. I don't know what a Vector UZI is, but the description sounds like it was just an UZI receiver put together with scrap parts.
http://www.impactguns.com/store/machineguns.html
They supposedly have Vector UZI's right now for $5,500. I don't know what a Vector UZI is, but the description sounds like it was just an UZI receiver put together with scrap parts.
Hkmp5sd
November 29, 2003, 08:54 AM
The two best days of a new Class 3 owners life are the day he gets his Mac and the day he sells it
Not any longer. Thanks to the '86 ban, the M11/9s have a new life. Many manufacturers are building some nice machineguns around the M11/9 receiver, along with slowing the cyclic rate down to a more reasonable speed.
http://www.socommfg.com/DSC00680.JPG
http://www.mac10.org/lage/lageupperright.jpg
Not any longer. Thanks to the '86 ban, the M11/9s have a new life. Many manufacturers are building some nice machineguns around the M11/9 receiver, along with slowing the cyclic rate down to a more reasonable speed.
http://www.socommfg.com/DSC00680.JPG
http://www.mac10.org/lage/lageupperright.jpg
Kenneth Lew
November 29, 2003, 11:24 AM
I'm always watching this page too, since the store is close by. They hardly every have anything that isn't already sold though and the only thing that is reasonably priced is for LEO.
http://www.impactguns.com/store/machineguns.html
Call Alan or Dave up, they will tell you what they have in stock.
They supposedly have Vector UZI's right now for $5,500. I don't know what a Vector UZI is, but the description sounds like it was just an UZI receiver put together with scrap parts.
www.vectorarms.com
The guns were built with South African contract parts. The quality is not to par with IMI, but who cares, as the gun works. I have one and love it. September 2002, those full size uzis were $2,999.00. Vectors sold out around that time.
http://www.impactguns.com/store/machineguns.html
Call Alan or Dave up, they will tell you what they have in stock.
They supposedly have Vector UZI's right now for $5,500. I don't know what a Vector UZI is, but the description sounds like it was just an UZI receiver put together with scrap parts.
www.vectorarms.com
The guns were built with South African contract parts. The quality is not to par with IMI, but who cares, as the gun works. I have one and love it. September 2002, those full size uzis were $2,999.00. Vectors sold out around that time.
TheOtherOne
November 29, 2003, 11:41 AM
www.vectorarms.com
The guns were built with South African contract parts. The quality is not to par with IMI, but who cares, as the gun works. I have one and love it. September 2002, those full size uzis were $2,999.00. Vectors sold out around that time.
$5,500 for me to be able to buy one but then I scroll down this page and find the same guns for $1,250.00. :mad:
http://www.vectorarms.com/guns/PostDealer_Samples.htm
The guns were built with South African contract parts. The quality is not to par with IMI, but who cares, as the gun works. I have one and love it. September 2002, those full size uzis were $2,999.00. Vectors sold out around that time.
$5,500 for me to be able to buy one but then I scroll down this page and find the same guns for $1,250.00. :mad:
http://www.vectorarms.com/guns/PostDealer_Samples.htm
Hkmp5sd
November 29, 2003, 12:54 PM
Such as a Post-Dealer MG42 going for $2,095.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/upload/976269709-3.jpg
There are also IMI Uzis listed at $750. :(
http://www.gunsamerica.com/upload/976269709-3.jpg
There are also IMI Uzis listed at $750. :(
TheOtherOne
November 29, 2003, 01:28 PM
So these are probably about the prices we would pay (plus $200 tax) if the '86 ban hadn't have happened?
armoredman
November 30, 2003, 10:37 AM
J&G Sales had an AC556,(full auto mini14) for about $3500, IIRC.
What the heck is that belt fed looking thing? Is that a MAC reciever modified to a 7.62x39 RPK looking thing?
What the heck is that belt fed looking thing? Is that a MAC reciever modified to a 7.62x39 RPK looking thing?
Hkmp5sd
November 30, 2003, 11:26 AM
What the heck is that belt fed looking thing? Is that a MAC reciever modified to a 7.62x39 RPK looking thing?
It's a M11/9 used on a RPD manufactured by Socomm (http://www.socommfg.com/) which goes for $6k. It takes about 60 seconds to clip on the M11/9 receiver and the only modification to the M11/9 is a single 3/8" hole drilled in the rear plate.
They are presently working on a SAW conversion for the M11/9.
http://www.socommfg.com/DSC00677.JPG
It's a M11/9 used on a RPD manufactured by Socomm (http://www.socommfg.com/) which goes for $6k. It takes about 60 seconds to clip on the M11/9 receiver and the only modification to the M11/9 is a single 3/8" hole drilled in the rear plate.
They are presently working on a SAW conversion for the M11/9.
http://www.socommfg.com/DSC00677.JPG
norman74
November 30, 2003, 08:51 PM
I wouldn't fret too much. Most class III guys are pretty generous, and will often let you play with their toys. I've got other things I'd rather sink that much cash into, like training and ammo for one.
I thought class III guys were nuts to spend $10k on an M16, but then it dawned on me, my Harley cost more than that. Kinda put things in perspective.
Of course, if I ride my Harley in to work, I get a much different reaction than you would bringing your m16....
I thought class III guys were nuts to spend $10k on an M16, but then it dawned on me, my Harley cost more than that. Kinda put things in perspective.
Of course, if I ride my Harley in to work, I get a much different reaction than you would bringing your m16....
Zedicus
December 1, 2003, 04:06 PM
What about AK's? or HK's?
AK's have been around for ages, there should be more of them than most other Class 3's...
AK's have been around for ages, there should be more of them than most other Class 3's...
AJ Dual
December 1, 2003, 05:32 PM
Everytime the '86 MG freeze makes me wistful and uptight that I'll probably never afford full-auto one thought keeps me warm at night.
The basic deer rifle is by far, the best suited "political recall" device, compared to any buzzgun, no matter how many bells and whistles are on it.
If you think about just what effect all the bans from NFA '34, GCA '68, '86 '91, '94 and on have had is:
The politicians are forcing us to learn how to aim...
Think about it. Were I dictator, I'd certainly be more comfortable in a nation full of full auto AK's and not one scoped bolt-action or Garand.
The basic deer rifle is by far, the best suited "political recall" device, compared to any buzzgun, no matter how many bells and whistles are on it.
If you think about just what effect all the bans from NFA '34, GCA '68, '86 '91, '94 and on have had is:
The politicians are forcing us to learn how to aim...
Think about it. Were I dictator, I'd certainly be more comfortable in a nation full of full auto AK's and not one scoped bolt-action or Garand.
Hkmp5sd
December 1, 2003, 05:44 PM
The politicians are forcing us to learn how to aim...
In addition, the "Saturday Night Special" ban and states with "approved" gun lists are forcing us to use better made, more powerful and more accurate guns. :)
What about AK's? or HK's?
Almost all of the NFA HKs are conversions of imported semi-autos. The semi-auto AKs didn't start showing up until right at the time of the '86 ban, so not many were converted. The '68 GCA stopped the importation of "non-sporting" (ie machineguns) firearms for sale to civilians.
In addition, the "Saturday Night Special" ban and states with "approved" gun lists are forcing us to use better made, more powerful and more accurate guns. :)
What about AK's? or HK's?
Almost all of the NFA HKs are conversions of imported semi-autos. The semi-auto AKs didn't start showing up until right at the time of the '86 ban, so not many were converted. The '68 GCA stopped the importation of "non-sporting" (ie machineguns) firearms for sale to civilians.
Zedicus
December 20, 2003, 03:45 PM
well, much on fireams laws still has me confused at best, so don't go bonkers at this question...
Is there any way to Legaly Convert a Pre AWB gun to selectable Simi & full auto?
I Realy would like Owning a dicent quality Full auto, but the prices of some still shock me...
i'm not sure on the MAC 10, I've heard a lot of not so great things about it, but i may be willing to consider some of the conversions avalable...
Simply Renting a class III from it's owner just wouldn't be the same as Owning one....
Is there any way to Legaly Convert a Pre AWB gun to selectable Simi & full auto?
I Realy would like Owning a dicent quality Full auto, but the prices of some still shock me...
i'm not sure on the MAC 10, I've heard a lot of not so great things about it, but i may be willing to consider some of the conversions avalable...
Simply Renting a class III from it's owner just wouldn't be the same as Owning one....
Matt G
December 20, 2003, 04:39 PM
I don't think M2's are all that expensive, are they? Or M3s?
444
December 20, 2003, 04:57 PM
My take on the whole full auto thing.
I wouldn't buy just anything so I could say I had a full auto. In my opinion, a lot of the cheaper guns arn't worth owning.
Like many on here I always wanted a full auto gun. I ended up buying a Sten Mk. II for $3500 approx.
I deeply regret not spending an extra grand and getting an UZI, which is a much better made and much more practical sub gun.
Again, my opinion only, I wouldn't want a Mac. I have fired a number of them in various calibers and I don't think they are practical either.
By practical, I mean controllable and the ability to hit something on demand. I have no interest in just spraying bullets, or in simply making a lot of noise. To me, the point in shooting is to hit something. I realize that subguns are not intended to be sniper weapons, but there are certainly some that are far better than others. To me, the cheapest decent machine gun would be the Uzi. Stuff like this Sten I own would be like buying a Hi-Point handgun when you could get something decent for another $100.
I wouldn't buy just anything so I could say I had a full auto. In my opinion, a lot of the cheaper guns arn't worth owning.
Like many on here I always wanted a full auto gun. I ended up buying a Sten Mk. II for $3500 approx.
I deeply regret not spending an extra grand and getting an UZI, which is a much better made and much more practical sub gun.
Again, my opinion only, I wouldn't want a Mac. I have fired a number of them in various calibers and I don't think they are practical either.
By practical, I mean controllable and the ability to hit something on demand. I have no interest in just spraying bullets, or in simply making a lot of noise. To me, the point in shooting is to hit something. I realize that subguns are not intended to be sniper weapons, but there are certainly some that are far better than others. To me, the cheapest decent machine gun would be the Uzi. Stuff like this Sten I own would be like buying a Hi-Point handgun when you could get something decent for another $100.
Hkmp5sd
December 20, 2003, 05:31 PM
Is there any way to Legaly Convert a Pre AWB gun to selectable Simi & full auto?
The easy answer, nope! Only machineguns registered with ATF prior to the '86 ban are legal. No other machineguns may be manufactured or converted.
The easy answer, nope! Only machineguns registered with ATF prior to the '86 ban are legal. No other machineguns may be manufactured or converted.
Monkeyleg
December 20, 2003, 05:54 PM
At a gun show many months back I was talking to a guy who had a full-auto Sten. He said there's a special license you can get for $500 a year that "allows" you to build your own full-autos, but you're not allowed to sell them. Does anyone know anything about this?
Hkmp5sd
December 20, 2003, 06:39 PM
Sounds like BS to me. If it did turn out to be true, my check is in the mail.:p
Billmanweh
December 20, 2003, 07:01 PM
He could have been a Class 2 SOT, but I think that's a $1000 a year license fee, not $500. Plus, you'd need a type 07 FFL (manufacturer of firearms), which is $150 for three years.
glocksman
December 20, 2003, 07:03 PM
He's talking about Special Occupational Taxpayer (SOT) status.
If you do under $500,000 in business per year, the tax is $500.
This is the tax that manufacturers and dealers pay in order to deal in such weapons.
If you do under $500,000 in business per year, the tax is $500.
This is the tax that manufacturers and dealers pay in order to deal in such weapons.
Monkeyleg
December 21, 2003, 06:58 PM
But what if you do no business? IOW, you just buy but never sell?
Hkmp5sd
December 21, 2003, 07:31 PM
Given that even with an SOT, a manufacturer is still required to have a letter from LEO/Gov't requesting a demonstration and prior approval from ATF before he can make a machinegun, it is highly unlikely ATF would allow an individual to make as many as he wants just by paying an annual fee and not require their registration. Dealers cannot even transfer post-86 samples between each other without the letter/approval.
Jeff Thomas
December 21, 2003, 07:59 PM
The Ruger AC556 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as37-e.htm) is at the lower end, but I wouldn't want one.
Regards from TX
Regards from TX
Bigjake
December 21, 2003, 08:29 PM
that would get really dull with 5 rnd mags only...
The Ruger AC556 is at the lower end, but I wouldn't want one.
The Ruger AC556 is at the lower end, but I wouldn't want one.
Billmanweh
December 21, 2003, 08:32 PM
Given that even with an SOT, a manufacturer is still required to have a letter from LEO/Gov't requesting a demonstration and prior approval from ATF before he can make a machinegun
are you sure about that?
I was under the impression that a Class 2 SOT can make a machine gun for R&D purposes without paying the tax and without prior notification to the ATF. But a leo/military letter would be needed to transfer the gun to another SOT.
are you sure about that?
I was under the impression that a Class 2 SOT can make a machine gun for R&D purposes without paying the tax and without prior notification to the ATF. But a leo/military letter would be needed to transfer the gun to another SOT.
Billmanweh
December 21, 2003, 08:33 PM
that would get really dull with 5 rnd mags only...
why would you only use 5 rounders? you can use pre-ban mini-14 hi-caps in an ac-556
why would you only use 5 rounders? you can use pre-ban mini-14 hi-caps in an ac-556
Mushinto
December 21, 2003, 09:39 PM
Hmmmm, let's see. I bought a Mac 10 for $100 and a Colt M16A1 for $800 in the early eighties. Should I regret selling them?
ML
ML
Billmanweh
December 21, 2003, 11:40 PM
I bought a Mac 10 for $100 and a Colt M16A1 for $800 in the early eighties. Should I regret selling them?
I'm kicking myself for not doing one of the Vector group purchases this time last year and getting a NIB Uzi for $3,000.
I'm kicking myself for not doing one of the Vector group purchases this time last year and getting a NIB Uzi for $3,000.
Hkmp5sd
December 22, 2003, 07:03 AM
are you sure about that?
It depends on exactly who they are talking about in this section:
ยง 179.105 (e) The making of machine guns on or after May 19, 1986. Subject to compliance with the provisions of this part, applications to make and register machine guns on or after May 19, 1986, for the benefit of a Federal, State or local governmental entity (e.g., an invention for possible future use of a governmental entity or the making of a weapon in connection with research and development on behalf of such an entity) will be approved if it is established by specific information that the machine gun is particularly suitable for use by Federal, State or local governmental entities and that the making of the weapon is at the request and on behalf of such an entity.
It depends on exactly who they are talking about in this section:
ยง 179.105 (e) The making of machine guns on or after May 19, 1986. Subject to compliance with the provisions of this part, applications to make and register machine guns on or after May 19, 1986, for the benefit of a Federal, State or local governmental entity (e.g., an invention for possible future use of a governmental entity or the making of a weapon in connection with research and development on behalf of such an entity) will be approved if it is established by specific information that the machine gun is particularly suitable for use by Federal, State or local governmental entities and that the making of the weapon is at the request and on behalf of such an entity.
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