2 silencer questions


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TheHossUSMC
May 7, 2010, 12:53 AM
One is more of a rant I guess but is still a question.
1. Why are silencers under the NFA in the first place? It seems to me that they are not silent at all and if anything only create a slightly less obtrusive noise when firing near urban areas or even just populated areas.

2. Are there any silencer manufacturers here that have competative prices on their products. If I could get good quality silencers made by a local or small business I would rather do that. Partially to save money and partially to support small business.

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sgtdevildog
May 7, 2010, 08:39 AM
No idea on the first question - they are controlled because they can. Have never really seen anything that suppressors were used in criminal activities that extensively so I couldn't even venture a guess. On the second point - competitive is a relative phrase. I recently purchased an AAC Prodigy locally (Atlanta) for the msrp. I don't know that any of the suppressor shops are huge. Was msrp a good deal? Don't know as there aren't a lot of shops that can sell them locally so supply and demand is one issue. The other is availability because you can't just order/send them to any local FFL and buying used with the regs is somewhat of a pain I would think. I'm on the 3 month wait for the stamp so I'll have to see when it arrives just how quiet it is. It's my first suppressor and will be more of a range toy and just because I can have it kind of thing (before they push through any other changes to law). YMMV

Taurus 617 CCW
May 7, 2010, 09:19 AM
I suppose that they are on the NFA list because they are "exotic". For decent priced suppressors you can look at Tactical Solutions in Idaho. I don't know of any Oregon suppressor companies that manufacture in the state. Tac Solutions only makes .22 lr and 5.56 suppressors. If you are looking for a handgun suppressor you should look at a different company like Gemtech. If you are shopping for a .22 lr suppressor I would save your pennies and get the 5.56 suppressor. They are more effective in sound reduction as compared to the .22 lr only. We just compared a Tac solutions .22 lr suppressor and a gemtech HALO last week on a .22 rifle. The HALO was significantly quieter.

bkjeffrey
May 7, 2010, 10:18 AM
Check out Coastal Gun, INC. for decently priced suppressors.

Ranb
May 7, 2010, 11:01 AM
I make my own. I still have to pay the $200 tax, but you can't beat the $20-$60 cost for each.

Ranb

Carl N. Brown
May 7, 2010, 11:42 AM
Why are silencers under the NFA in the first place?

Apparently because the 1930s Congress believed that machine guns, silencers, handguns and rifles and shotguns cut down to be concealable weapons were blanket labeled "gangster weapons" and that a tax equal to the price of a new Tommy gun ($200) would deter gangster behavior. Just as Congress believed the 1919 Volstead Act was the answer to the menace of "Demon Rum" and a 1937 $500 tax on marijuana would stop "Reefer Madness".

Silencers were used by gangsters in movies, so banning them just obviously had to be the right thing to do. People in other countries think the US ban on silencers is silly.

LWYM425
May 7, 2010, 11:45 AM
Is buying a homemade suppressor frowned upon like buying homemade ammo??

When you get the stamp do you then specify which suppressor it is for or if i have one stamp can i buy/sell/swap suppressors as long as i'm in possession of just one at all times?

Carl N. Brown
May 7, 2010, 11:48 AM
Gun Control is voodoo criminology brought to us by the generation that gave us Demon Rum and Reefer Madness. Why we still have any of this is beyond reason.

You file a Form 1 to ATF to get authorization to make a specific silencer with a specific serial number, then, on approval you actually make the silencer. The local CLEO (chief of police, county sheriff or district attorney) must sign off on the Form 1 that silencers are legal under local law and you can legally own a silencer.

Sam1911
May 7, 2010, 12:32 PM
When you get the stamp do you then specify which suppressor it is for or if i have one stamp can i buy/sell/swap suppressors as long as i'm in possession of just one at all times?

To purchase a silencer you file a Form 4 for that specific, serialized, 'can. (To build one you file a Form 1 the same way.)

The stamp is not transferrable to other silencers.

Bubbles
May 7, 2010, 12:53 PM
I don't know of any Oregon suppressor companies that manufacture in the state.

Ah... You've never heard of Tom Bowers?

http://www.subguns.com/

WoofersInc
May 7, 2010, 03:37 PM
1. Why are silencers under the NFA in the first place? It seems to me that they are not silent at all and if anything only create a slightly less obtrusive noise when firing near urban areas or even just populated areas.

Silencers where placed into the origional NFA Act in 1934. It was actually game wardens and such that got them placed there. The country was still under the effects of the Depression and the wildlife control people feared them being used for poaching.
A lot of people are unaware that all handguns, revolvers and autos, were intended to be in the NFA act. Silencers were not there in this version. Once they got to the final draft, handguns had been taken out and suppressors had been added in.

firebird31
May 12, 2010, 04:35 PM
I inherited a .22 cal silencer and was wondering how to make it legal? I can't find any information on it from the original owner (my uncle). I'm not sure if it is registered to him or anyone else. It is definitely factory produced, not homemade. Any ideas?

Zak Smith
May 12, 2010, 05:17 PM
Inheritance transfers are done on Form 5's. There is no fee for a Form 5 transfer.

If there is no paperwork the suppressor is likely unregistered and possession of it is illegal.

Sam1911
May 12, 2010, 06:04 PM
Wouldn't the Form 5 have to be submitted by the executor of the estate before transfer of possession to the heir?

Corey
May 12, 2010, 06:32 PM
That is correct. Once an owner dies, the suppressor is part of the estate and the executor is in legal control of it. The executor then transfers it to the lawfull heir on a Form 5 as a tax exempt transfer. If there is no paperwork found in the estate, the executor can contact ATF NFA Branch in Martinsburg, WV with the info on the silencer and previous owner. NFA Branch can research it to determine if it was registered and can be transferred or if not make arrangements for it to be turned in. They have seen this situation many times and they do not call in the stormtroopers over it.

KodiakBeer
May 12, 2010, 06:42 PM
You know what's odd? In Germany, where gun laws are far tighter than here, they encourage the use of suppressors to keep noise down. That's why guns like the Walther P22 come with that little threaded nut on the end of the barrel - it's to attach a suppressor!

firebird31
May 12, 2010, 06:45 PM
Thanks for the info gents. So if it is not properly registered then it must be turned in, there is no way I could retain it until the tax stamp (or registration) was approved to me? Or possibly turned in to a class III dealer while the paperwork is processing?

Sam1911
May 12, 2010, 06:52 PM
If it wasn't registered to your uncle then it can't be transferred to you. It is contraband and will have to be forfeited. I would speak to the executor and have him work this out correctly. Seems like he screwed up in a large way and has put you at considerable risk.

Possession of an unregistered Title II firearm is a federal felony and the penalties are steep -- up to $10,000 fines and 10 years in prison.

Do NOT screw around with this.

Zak Smith
May 12, 2010, 06:52 PM
Corey's advice a couple posts up is as good advice as you'll find on this matter.

firebird31
May 12, 2010, 06:54 PM
Thanks again, will do!

miestro_jerry
May 13, 2010, 01:47 AM
This is an area that I don't play around with, too many gotchas with the gov these days. In the last 5 years I have been given two rifles left over from WW II, both were basically stolen by the serviceman who came home with them. One was a Garand it wasn't any big deal to get "papers" on it. Two phone calls. The other was a BAR. I cut the bolt in to pieces, cut the receiver into pieces, retained the serial number, called Ft Know and finally got to some one who had some knowledge about this subject, he told me that it was correct to destroy the weapon to the point it could not be reassembled, but he said he would note the serial number and the date of destruction, but that the Army gave up looking for that weapon a long time ago.

There was a guy down the road from me, that made illegal silencers, the kid that he smoked dope with turned him in. He had stuff to make bombs, chemical warfare stuff, silencers and 90 blasting caps. Any one what to figure out when he will get out jail?

Jerry

Ranb
May 13, 2010, 10:50 AM
Ten years max unless he committed a violent crime using the silencers, then it will be 25 minimum. They can hit him with tax evasion penalties too. Idiot.

Ranb

Bubbles
May 13, 2010, 11:51 AM
IIRC Washington state also has (had?) some funny laws about suppressors, as in, you can own them and even attach them to a firearm, you just can't shoot the firearm with the suppressor on it...

Ranb
May 13, 2010, 12:27 PM
Still has, hence my signature.

Ranb

DoubleTapDrew
May 14, 2010, 05:59 PM
TROS is another local Oregon small business suppressor manufacturer. Great guys to work with and quality cans. They have the prices on their website and they are at most of the gun shows at the expo (back left corner from the entrance).
http://www.trosusa.com/

fearless warrior
July 23, 2010, 07:04 AM
What about shooting a legally owned suppressor on federal land or in a sovereign nation, within Washington State? Just food for thought.

Sam1911
July 23, 2010, 07:25 AM
What about shooting a legally owned suppressor on federal land or in a sovereign nation, within Washington State? Just food for thought.

Generally, the gun laws of the state in which the federal land is located prevail. As for reservation land, that could, possibly, be tricky. Tribal -vs.- State jurisdiction is not perfectly clear. Obviously, all FEDERAL laws would apply, but I'd have to hear from an attorney (or three) on whether a state law prohibiting the use of a silencer would be binding on tribal lands. And, it may even depend on WHO is shooting. Some rulings have said that tribal law applies to members of that nation, but not on citizens of the surrounding state when on tribal lands (and vice-versa, maybe).

Very grey area, I think.

Crash_Test_Dhimmi
July 25, 2010, 04:29 PM
Im surprised no one mentioned this

Major Malfunctions Munitions

Below MSRP on everything

btwiceborn
August 1, 2010, 04:30 PM
there are some european countries that REQUIRE use of a supressor when within xxx distance of a home or business.
It just seems to me that with all of the OSHA laws regarding use of noisy devices in industry and commerce that a noise reducer (muffler) for a gun would be a non controlled device. I mean they dont require registration and $200 tax on the earmuffs you wear at the range right? why require it on silencers?

Tirod
September 5, 2010, 09:03 PM
Vltor announced the Volks suppressor back at the SHOT Show in January. They are still working on it around all the gov't contracts. Predicted price was $400. It's a reflex design rumored to be similar to the Euro designs. Vltor is also reputed to be a the supplier to a major suppressor brand.

Vltor reps have said it's still coming this fall, keep looking for it. If you live in MO then it gives you time to apply for your C&R to start the countdown. I wouldn't plan on using it this season for deer, but that question has been asked and answered - it's ok here.

Once all you 5.56 guys get the ball rolling, then maybe we could see a .308 for the 6.8 shooters, too.

BlacklabelOP
September 5, 2010, 11:15 PM
Hairtrigger Firearms
(503) 824-4867


Hairtrigger Firearms, Llc
Po Box 314
Colton, OR. 97017


My favorite local suppressor builder.... I actually have 2..

springwalk
September 16, 2010, 09:05 PM
I wouldnt buy local (oregon ) as none of the makers listed makes anything comparable to say a Silencerco Sparrow or Osprey but they are good gunsmiths for threading barrels & making adapters etc.. Of course several Oregon class 3 dealers stock the good stuff from neighboring Idaho and Utah :SIlencerco, Gemtech etc. As for why we need to go through the NFA hoops for cans its mostly because of Hollywoods example of silencers are tools of assassins which has been planted in the minds of America, also as mentioned the olden days when the country didnt want people to poach when they were hungry, despite silencers are never really silent.

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