[Weimadog]

Hmmmm, grabbing an armed police officer by the arm and driving off will probably not lead to an improvement in your life.

the story (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/9565E7B2F1CC061086256DEC0024ECA4?OpenDocument&Headline=Pine+Lawn+police+officer+kills+17-year-old+rap+performer)

Pine Lawn police officer kills 17-year-old rap performer
By Bill Bryan
Post-Dispatch
11/28/2003


Kyle Dismukes, a young rapper from Overland, recently cut a CD aptly titled "Streets Tell It All."

Shortly after performing songs from the CD at the Cougars nightclub in Normandy, Dismukes was shot to death early Thursday by a Pine Lawn police officer after a traffic stop in the 2700 block of Kienlen Avenue.

The officer said he had stopped Dismukes' car for a traffic violation about 1:45 a.m. but that the youth grabbed his arm as he approached the driver's window and sped away, with the officer clinging to the door.



The officer said he could not break free and fired into the car with his free hand after he was dragged for some distance, including when Dismukes, 17, made a U-turn in the street.

The officer's name was not disclosed.

The shooting was being investigated Thursday by St. Louis County police, who said they found a handgun in Dismukes' car.

Thursday's incident was the second fatal shooting in two weeks of a St. Louis County teenager who apparently was trying to flee from police. On Nov. 16, Byron Harmon, 15, was fatally shot when two St. Louis County officers fired into a car at a trailer park on St. Charles Rock Road.

The officers said they fired because their safety was jeopardized, but a friend of Byron's who was in the car said Byron panicked and was simply trying to get away. The car Byron was driving turned out to be stolen.

Dismukes' mother, Cynthia Montgomery, 48, of Overland, said she wants a thorough investigation of the shooting.

"I want to know why they shot him. I find their account unbelievable," she said. "I'm not satisfied."

Dismukes was the youngest of Montgomery's six children, she said.

"He was a very loving person who was kind and intellectual," she said. "My son was very smart and a very good person."

Dismukes had been a rap performer since he was a little boy, his mother said.

He attended an alternative high school operated by the Ombudsman program and affiliated with Normandy High School.

One of Dismukes' sisters, Tamika Dismukes, 27, said she, too, wanted a better explanation from the police.

"We're getting the runaround from the police," she said. "They've been very vague."

County police isssued a news release describing the shooting but refused to comment further on Thursday, citing the Thanksgiving holiday.

Several of Dismukes' friends gathered in the street Thursday in the 6200 block of Bailey Place in Hillsdale where Dismukes often stayed. Bailey is just a few blocks from the shooting scene.

One close friend of the slain teen locked herself in an SUV with her head buried in her hands as she listened to the blaring music of Dismukes' CD.

Friends of Dismukes said he had been driving a 2001 Mercedes that belonged to a friend when he was shot, and some suggested that the fact that the car was a luxury vehicle may have been the reason the officer stopped it.

One man who would not give his name said he had been driving behind the police car and witnessed the incident. He said the officer fired almost immediately when Dismukes drove away, with the officer clinging to the door.

"The officer grabbed the door and Kyle hit the gas pedal, and the car came to a stop a short distance away," said the man, indicating a distance of perhaps 30 yards. The man said he didn't hear any gunfire but added that "the cop must have shot him right away" because of where the car stopped.

[Valkman]

The man said he didn't hear any gunfire but added that "the cop must have shot him right away" because of where the car stopped.

Duh, maybe he should have held on for a few miles until the kid could "wipe him off" on a fence or something. Then the mother wouldn't have anything to complain about, though. Good riddance.

[Gewehr98]

comment deleted by moderator -- pax

[semf]

Why is it that cops only shoot good hearted misunderstood kids.

Two things in this story jumped out at me.
Why is a kind and intellectual kid going to an alternative school? Isn't that the short bus school for behavioral and learning problems?

Why does he sometime stay in the 6200 block of Bailey Place? Does he not have a stable home enviroment provided by his parent(s)?

I realize the last one is a stretch. But I have learned to read between the lines with stories like this.

[BluesBear]

He said the officer fired almost immediately when Dismukes drove away, with the officer clinging to the door. Geee I didn't realize that there was a safe zone. :scrutiny:

Just how far are you allowed to drag a police office before he can shoot? :rolleyes:

"We're getting the runaround from the police," she said. "They've been very vague." No, Sparkles, it was your brother who was trying to give the officer the runaround.
Maybe she ought to read the paper. It all seems clear to me.

One close friend of the slain teen locked herself in an SUV with her head buried in her hands as she listened to the blaring music of Dismukes' CD. Music? I thought they said he was a rap artist? :neener:


Hmmm why didn't the "witness" mention the u-turn? Kinda hard to miss if you were following them.

[geeman]

All mothers say that their criminal sons were good boys thus the saying 'only a mother could love'.
Is that what upstanding citizens and intellectuals do when stopped by the police? I suggest not. The boy felt an entitlement that is allowed to people in our PC society. If no one should be below the law, then no one should be above it either.
Garry

[El Tejon]

This happened in Indy years ago. Copper woke up a drunk on the circle who decided to punch it with the copper's arm caught in the steering wheel/drunk's grasp. 3 125 grs. from a .357 (S&W, M66) to the head and neck put an end to the drive.

He may have been kind and smart but he was not raised properly. I note that the reporter did not interview THE FATHER.:fire: :cuss:

In dealing with the police a proper parent would have instructed his child to remain calm and Eddie Haskell up and to stay away from the Death Culture of "hip hop." Ice Mope wanted to emulate his heros in the Hip Hop culture.

What's the saying in Tejas? Mess with the bull, get the horns, homeboy.

[greyhound]

Do the newspapers hate the police or something?

There are a lot of indicators here that this young man was far from a "Happy-go-lucky everykid" (example: handgun in the car).

Most "kind and intellectual" kids I knew didn't drive around in a Mercedes at 1:45 AM with a gun in the car, and would have pulled the old "yes, sir, no sir" routine if stopped by a cop.

Well, two shootings in two weeks, I sense a "No justice, No peace" moment upcoming....

"Streets Tell It All."

Unfortunately, that is so.

Don't get me started on the "art" of rap music....:barf:

[Beren]

Hopefully the cop's cruiser had a camera in it that recorded the incident. Seems the only way to save the cop alot of grief and it'll help cover his tush should the family try to sue.

[Weimadog]

This tale continues.
The best paragraph is at the end of this article.

a link to the story (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/St.+Louis+City+%2F+County/8FF4935E43A4F0F786256DED00121698?OpenDocument&Headline=Friend+of+teen+killed+by+police+was+wounded+hours+later+in+d)
Friend of teen killed by police was wounded hours later in drive-by
By JEREMY KOHLER
Post-Dispatch
11/29/2003


Just 18 hours after a Pine Lawn police officer fatally shot 17-year-old Kyle Dismukes on Thursday, tragedy struck again: A friend of the young rap artist was wounded in a drive-by shooting two houses down from Dismukes' home.

Labaron Bass, 24, a rap artist who recorded music with Dismukes, was shot in the back by someone in a pickup about 8 p.m. Thursday, police said. He had been walking with a few friends on the 6200 block of Bailey Place in Hillsdale. He was recovering Friday at a hospital.

Hillsdale police Detective Sgt. Robert Kelly, who is investigating the shooting of Bass, said the shootings appeared to be unrelated. Enraged friends and relatives of Dismukes and Bass insisted on a connection.

Bass' girlfriend, Nicole Taylor, said she thinks Bass' shooting was in retaliation because a group of men had attacked a police officer after Dismukes' shooting. The attack could not be verified Friday.

"I just think whoever it was knew exactly what he was doing," said Bass' sister Tammy Stewart, 22, who lives a block away on the 6200 block of Greer Avenue in Pine Lawn. About Kelly, she said: "He seems nice. He said he was going to find out who did this."

Stewart pointed to two seemingly intractable problems in her neighborhood, which straddles the tiny, mostly low-income cities of Hillsdale and Pine Lawn: Too many people in the area are involved in crime. And, to her, police seem to believe that everyone who lives there is involved in crime. It adds up to mistrust between people and police, she said.
Police in Pine Lawn and St. Louis County refused Friday to discuss Dismukes' shooting or identify the shooter. Each department said the other was responsible for releasing the name. St. Louis County police historically review homicides and police shootings in several smaller municipalities.

The officer said he had stopped Kyle Dismukes' car for a traffic violation about 1:45 a.m. Thursday but that Dismukes, 17, grabbed his arm as he approached the driver's window and sped away, with the officer clinging to the door. The officer said he could not break free and fired into the car with his free hand after he was dragged for some distance, including when Dismukes made a U-turn. Police said they found a handgun in Dismukes' car.

Dismukes' sister Bridget Torrence, 31, said Friday that she often worried about her brother.

"But I never would have guessed police killed him," she said. "I always figured it was going to be the kids he was with."

Reporter Jeremy Kohler
E-mail: jkohler@post-dispatch.com
Phone: 314-241-9435

[BluesBear]

:what:


Would laughing be considered poor taste?

[Weimadog]

And one more incident of "gun violence" the antis can use against us. :(

Weimadog

[greyhound]

Bass' girlfriend, Nicole Taylor, said she thinks Bass' shooting was in retaliation because a group of men had attacked a police officer after Dismukes' shooting

So if I read this correctly she's saying the cops just pulled a drive-by? Lovely. This will do a lot for police/community relations.

Now I REALLY sense an upcoming "No Justice, No peace" trashing of the neighborhood!

[Jeeper]

I witnessed an attempted carjacking one time where the car jacker stuck the gun into the window and the guy grabbed his arm and took off. He let the carjaacker go when he was doing about 50. It was frickin hilarious. THat idiot got what he deserved. To do it to a cop is a pretty bad thing. But I guess he was a "really good person" like his momma said.

[BluesBear]

"My son was very smart and a very good person." It would appear that her & I are not using the same dictionary.

[HogRider]

One close friend of the slain teen locked herself in an SUV with her head buried in her hands as she listened to the blaring music of Dismukes' CD.

Another heart warming story about a "Rap Artist" meeting his maker. :)

[Apple a Day]

- edited by Apple since no one wants to hear a publik skool teechur gripe about publik skools-

semf,
Yes, "alternative school" is where kids who are violently disruptive end up... usually after multiple offenses. There are also kids who are completely unmotivated and disruptive, or have been caught with drugs on campus in the program. Since mom described junior as an "intellectual" then he isn't there because he can't hack the material in a regular class.

[Newton]

What was the officers arm doing in the vehicle, they generally don't reach in.

Was the car left in "Drive", an officer would generally check for that (brake lights still on when approaching) or he would see the driver attempt to engage drive. as he approcahed the vehicle (brake lights suddenly come on, driver moves etc).

We should never guess, but I'm going to break that rule.

Pure guesswork - The kid panicked and attempted to speed off while the officer was by the side of his vehicle, the officer reached in to try and grab the keys and was dragged some distance during which he shot and killed the kid.

The whole arm grabbing thing just doesn't sound right, I hope there was a video in the cops car to remove any doubt about what really happeend.

[El Tejon]

Newton, are there not Hip Hop songs about doing this to cops?:confused:

[Kobun]

RAP, acronym meaning Retards Attempting Poetry

No wonder he had to attend an "alternative" school! :rolleyes:

[MissileCop]

If Mommy wants to starts laying blame, she best start with herself. I don't care who the boy is, or what he does, but there is absolutely no reason for a 17 year old to be out at almost two in the morning.

Piss poor parenting is partly to blame for this boys death, not just a bullet from an LEO's sidearm. :fire:

[semf]

Since mom described junior as an "intellectual" then he isn't there because he can't hack the material in a regular class.
Sha also described him as kind does that mean he would never drive around armed and try to kill or maim a cop. "Very Smart and very good" people normally do not act like this.
She also decsribed him as a Rap performer and the article decribes this as "music" and "songs" does this mean that it shouldn't make my ears bleed
:rolleyes:

[Sven]

This thread WILL stay on topic and will not be a discussion of music appreciation. Thank you.

[Black92LX]

but there is absolutely no reason for a 17 year old to be out at almost two in the morning.

Ahhhh Come On!!! He had just gotten done layin his rymes out at the local club.

This happened in cincinnati as well. except it was a 12 year old kid that stole a police cruiser and the officer sleeve got stuck in the closed door. he shot and killed the kid. unfortunatly the officer died of his injuries from being dragged down the road.

[Kharn]

"He was a very loving person who was kind and intellectual," she said. "My son was very smart and a very good person."
Has anyone been quoted in the news saying something like "That boy was a moron, I knew from the moment he was born that he'd screw up and get in trouble with the law"? :confused:

Kharn

[DJ E.]

Has anyone been quoted in the news saying something like "That boy was a moron, I knew from the moment he was born that he'd screw up and get in trouble with the law"?


Exactly. No sugarcoating here, call it how you see it for once...

DJ

[Hkmp5sd]

Whether due to panic, accident and/or intentional, the LEOs actions are based on his perceived threat. The same perceived threat by which us non-LEOs defend ourselves. Regardless of the reason the guy decided to drag the LEO along side the car, if the LEO feared for his life, his actions were completely justified.

Any reasonably knowledgeable person knows that such actions taken against a LEO have the possible effect of greatly decreasing their expected lifespan.

All of Ted Bundy's friends thought he was "kind and intellectual" too.

[Newton]

El Tejon - I'm proud to say that I know more about Madagascan folk dancing than I know about Rap ;)

[Dave R]

We had a very similar incident in Idaho. Perp drove off with the LEO's are in the car. LEO shot the driver.

After much investigation, and much hand-wringing by the media, it was pronounced a good shoot. I can't see how it could be otherwise.

In my experience, "kind and intellectual" people do not drag cops.

[Drjones]

Kyle Dismukes, a young rapper from Overland

I think that says it all.

[45R]

"He was a very loving person who was kind and intellectual," she said. "My son was very smart and a very good person."


Then he should have been smart enough not to provok an officer of the law to use deadly force against him.

[Autolite]

So there's 'absolutely no reason for a seventeen year old to be out at almost two in the morning'? Jeez, when I was seventeen I was out that late almost every single night of the week! Of course it was because I worked steady midnights in a steel factory.

Point being, bad parenting or not, the guy was not a kid. I got the impression from your post that his 'mommy' was to blame. Not so. The guy was an adult IMHO ...

[Archie]

Has anyone been quoted in the news saying something like "That boy was a moron, I knew from the moment he was born that he'd screw up and get in trouble with the law"?Not usually from the mother.

From the sound of it, it was a legally proper shoot.
I almost said "good"; I really don't think a 17 year old getting killed is "good", even if he caused the problem. Not to say the officer just should have hung on to the side of the car and tried to "bond"....

These things don't happen in one instance. The circumstances for this have been building up for 17 years, anyway.

I especially liked the statement: Bass' sister Tammy Stewart, 22,...
pointed to two seemingly intractable problems in her neighborhood[:]... Too many people in the area are involved in crime. And, to her, police seem to believe that everyone who lives there is involved in crime. It adds up to mistrust between people and police, she said. No kidding?

[Nightfall]

The sad part... here is another statistic for the antis to add to children killed by guns. :rolleyes:

[Standing Wolf]

...some suggested that the fact that the car was a luxury vehicle may have been the reason the officer stopped it.

I'm sure all manner of "suggestions" have been made.

[Don Gwinn]

He was perhaps not a "child," but he was in high school. Definitely a kid.

[capt_happypants]

God, why does every two-bit punk that gets zapped end up being the second coming of Christ? He wanted the thug life, he lived the thug life, he rolled the Darwin Dice and came up snake eyes.

Bring out the poverty pimps and the race hustlers. Hamstring the cops and let the fun begin. The slow death of St. Louis continues...

[duck hunt]

and anyone else who may jump to the conclusion that all alternative school programs are "the short bus school for behavioral and learning problems" -- I took the liberty of looking up the kid's school. He attended the Ombudsman Program (http://www.nkcsd.k12.mo.us/news/2001/052301ombuds.htm), for which one has to be recommended, interviewed and approved. It's for students who are self-motivated and learn better in an independent environment. Granted, the kid screwed up big time if the article printed at the beginning of this thread is accurate, but don't judge his school by his actions.

I attended the Open High School, a similar school in Richmond, Virginia. My SATs got me some piece of paper from the National Honor Society (some kinda honorable mention, I don't remember the term) and I went on to graduate from William and Mary with a double major and get an MFA after that. I teach at an alternative school now, so I am a little touchy about the stereotype!

I'll jump on the bandwagon a little with the public school bashing, however -- at the website of the school mentioned in the article, they have a lovely "photo gallary (sic).":cuss:

[semf]

Around here you get to the Alternative School on the short bus after you've been kicked out of every other school in the district and there is no more room in juvy.
The schools you describe are Magnate Schools or Eccelerated Learning Centers ( or something like that).

That he was in such a program makes him even stupider than I first thought. He threw away a chance to better his own life and that of his family. That's if I'm not jumping to assumptions based on his sister's account of the crime rate in their area.

[Wildalaska]

Sarcasm hat on..

The usual thread here, similar too the basic...

All lawyers are anti american greedy sharks unless they work for KABA or Randy Weaver...

All cops are jackbooted thugs who despoil the innocent, unless the perp is a black rapper....

All guilty are innocent if they are one of us, all innocent are guilty if they are one of them...

No kid shot by a cop is ever good, no cop shooting a kid is ever bad....

Sarcasm hat off

WildletsseewhatagrandjurysaysAlaska

[Frank5]

Hey Weimadog....................The link you provided about the rap artist also had another story of interest. It was about a robbery victim who disarmed the perp & beat him with his own gun. Did you notice it??

It was a cool story. :cool:

[twoblink]

What the police should do (since they are so unwelcome) is have the Blue Flu there for a month... Then we'll see how much "safer" the streets are..

Yep, he reads to me like a short bus candidate..

Dragging a police officer gets you shot... hm... sounds about right to me...

[sonny]

I think you guys are being a little rough on the alternative school kids,often these schools provide great work-study programs that teach "troubled" kids a trade or skill.
Not everyone fits into the mold exactly and if it helps a kid become a productive citizen than I'm all for these schools as long as they don't become a burden to the tax payers.
This kid did not (seem) to be living in a world of reality and did not realize that with bad actions come bad consiquences..........that is the first lesson my boys were taught when they were young......play with fire you're gonna get burned :fire:

[Weimadog]

Frank5, yes, I know the story about the 'victim' beating the criminal with a gun. As I recall, a passerby then stole the gun:(

Here is an attachment, which is a photo which went along with the original story in this thread. The photo in the photo of the slain rapper, and the guy holding it claims to be his cousin. Notice the beer bottle. What a memorial. I feel dirty posting it,< edited to remove the picture. It was a picture of some lowlife holding a photo of the slain rapper, and a beer bottle, showing the photo to passing motorists as a memorial. It represents the antithesis of "The High Road". Yeeeech.>

[duck hunt]

The schools you describe are Magnate Schools or Eccelerated Learning Centers ( or something like that).

I think you mean magnet schools and accelerated learning centers. A "magnet" school is any school which draws students from all over the district, and that can be due to high grades, specialized talents (such as music -- which could include rap -- or art) or different learning styles (need for more or less structure etc.). An accelerated learning center would be something like a gifted program, a Governor's School or, in the case of the kid in St. Louis, an Ombudsman's program. All of the previously mentioned types of schools could be considered Alternative Schools, as they are alternatives to the standard high school for which one is zoned.

I don't doubt that in your area, and in many areas, "alternative school" has come to carry a negative connotation. I've been fighting that one for over twenty years now, and I don't suppose it will ever end. People believe what they want to believe. It seems that a lot of people on this thread wear some preconceptions about rap music on their sleeves, too....but as has been stated before, we are not to turn this into a discussion on music appreciation and the lack thereof....

Back to the topic, the kid dragged a cop and was in possession of a handgun underage. Those are the pertinent facts, not the school he attended or what type of music he made.

[semf]

Then why did the newspaper write those facts into the article. And why did the mother use these as arguments why the cop should not have shot him.
The discussion is more than the events that led to his demize but also of the community's and his family's reation to it.

I gave you the terms used in my area to describe the different school programs here if you don't like them contact our school board. At least they're not still called EMR or Special Ed anymore.
You'll have to forgive my spelling on my previous post I work nights and it was either late or early and we don't have spell checker here, and I'm running out of excuses so just give me detention. (I graduated 22 years ago and still hold the record for consecutive detention. And I still got to ride the big bus:D )

[MrAcheson]

I was in "special ed". When I was younger (elementary school), I was something of a discipline problem. It was mostly because I got bored easily and was usually way ahead of my teacher (who was often teaching me what I considered to be obvious). Long story short, I was put in the "gifted" program and flourished there at the leading edge of the bell curve.

Not all "alternative schools" or "special ed" programs are the same. I was one of the smart kids. Many of the "dumb kids" are also fine upstanding individuals I am proud to call friends. Some special eds and alternative schoolers are problem kids, some are not. Please do not paint us all with the same brush.

[scbair]

Several years ago, in my city (where I once served as a police officer), a police supervisor shot & killed a youth at a nightclub. Disregarding the facts that (a) the kid was underaged to be a a nightclub and (b) the kid had a handgun, the press immediately reported bystanders' complaints that the kid was NOT pointing the handgun at the officer, and the officer shot for no reason. The officer maintained the handgun WAS pointed at him (the officer) when the officer fired in self defense. A number of "witnesses" disputed this.

Enter the forensics folks. An old buddy of mine, during autopsy/medical exam, noted a number of lead dust particles imbedded in the "victim's" skin, about the upper chest, throat and head. The bullet struck the chest. Closer review of the "victim's" handgun revealed a lead smear on the topstrap.

The officer's bullet had glanced off the top of the "victim's" handgun, and then struck and killed the youth. The lead particles had sprayed into the upper body after the impact with the weapon.

The coroner revealed this, and suddenly all "witnesses" declined to testify under oath that the "victim" had been in a non-threatening posture at the time of the shooting. Thank heavens for an alert forensics technician!

[Sportcat]

Cool... I thought they only got that detailed on CSI! Good job by the forensics person/ team.