Maybe the smart gun is possible.


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answerguy
January 21, 2003, 07:09 PM
Calm down, take a breath.

I was watching something on cable about a table saw that automatically retracts when it meets human flesh. I didn't hear how it worked but they showed a demonstration by pushing a hot dog to the blade. It didn't even nick the skin of the wiener.

Anywho. It would seem if they can invent something like this then maybe a smart gun is actually possible. Desirable is another question.

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kalibear45
January 21, 2003, 07:23 PM
This one's got a computer chip in it...

http://www.metalstorm.com/12_odwyervle/prototype.html

answerguy
January 21, 2003, 07:36 PM
The voice over sounded like Al Gore. But the gun was pretty cool. As long as it doesn't become a requirement to use a 'smart' gun.

Autolite
January 21, 2003, 07:39 PM
Check back with me later as I will have completed a convincing thesis on the probability of monkeys flying out of my butt ...

SIGarmed
January 21, 2003, 07:43 PM
I advise that we should all stock up on "dumb guns" now while the going is good.

answerguy
January 21, 2003, 07:51 PM
Smart guns are reliable, safe, and a viable concept.

There is no reason to think that isn't possible. Maybe not now but in the future. The fear we have is that they will be required, especially required before they are reliable.

Autolite
January 21, 2003, 08:01 PM
In general, technology has always been ahead of hardware. Whether it's computers, automotive electronics, or aviation, the concept was always implemented long before the hardware was developed to an appreciable level of reliability. When the product comes close to being dependable, higher technology kicks in again to 'improve' the concept before the older technology is perfected. It's a dog chasing it's tail. Not a scenario I care to see with handguns...

Shalako
January 21, 2003, 08:01 PM
Wouldn't it be neat if they made actual smart guns and required them for everybody but some Government and/or Badguys new how to jam them with some emf-pulse generating technogoodie so it wouldn't work if you needed it? Man that would be cool!

Autolite
January 21, 2003, 08:30 PM
You can bet that somewhere, right now, there are folks working on a way to 'beat' smart gun technology. Those trying to find ways to defeat a security system are seldom more than one step behind those working to make that system 'unbeatable'...

Standing Wolf
January 21, 2003, 08:46 PM
How long before some leftist extremist self-styled "genius" decides every car needs a fully automatic gadget to make sure the driver hasn't been drinking? How long before some other leftist extremist self-styled "genius" decides every computer needs a little bit of extra hardware and/or software to report where its owner surfs the internet to prevent people from acquiring child pornography?

Roadkill Coyote
January 21, 2003, 09:23 PM
Not only are there questions about the reliability of such a system, there is the issue of whether a system using an RF transponder on the hand is a good idea to begin with. Let us assume that an officer equipped with such a system loses his handgun. The officer is still in the fight, and the offender has the non-functional gun in his hand.


If, at that point the officer tries to grab the gun, he puts the transponder into proximity, and the purpose is defeated.

If he doesn't try to grab the gun, he runs the risk of being bludgeoned with a chunk of metal that he can't afford to get his hands near.

If you make the reciever in the weapon so sensitive that the transponder has to be in just the right spot, you may prevent using the weapon with gloves, or a modified grip caused by injury.


Also, if you look at the bottom of their ad, you'll find that they are working on "less lethal ammo" for the thing. There is no technology currently available, or proposed, to make an effective handgun sized less lethal projectile. Anything that pushes out the needed 90 or so foot pounds of energy, in a handgun caliber is going to run a significant risk of penetration. Thats why 12 gauge beanbags are designed to spread the impact over as wide an area as possible. A lot of the ideas on this subject are going straight from the gee-whiz phase to the press release phase with no stop overs in the real world.:scrutiny:

answerguy
January 21, 2003, 09:32 PM
Not only are there questions about the reliability of such a system, there is the issue of whether a system using an RF transponder on the hand is a good idea to begin with. Let us assume that an officer equipped with such a system loses his handgun. The officer is still in the fight, and the offender has the non-functional gun in his hand.

So let's pass a law to stop them from doing research?

BerettaNut92
January 21, 2003, 09:41 PM
I might trust a smart gun when they can get my Photoshop from crashing when I try to resize something to print on an 11x17" sheet of paper.

Or not.

Roadkill Coyote
January 21, 2003, 09:42 PM
Nothing wrong with research, I was referring to a company that's already working on marketing a poorly thought out product.:D

bedlamite
January 21, 2003, 09:43 PM
The VLe is designed specifically for use by specialist police teams and by the military


Wait a minute. Didn't PRNJ specifically exempt police and military in their recent escapades?

J Miller
January 21, 2003, 10:34 PM
:p
If these computerized smart guns are as reliable as my home PC, I shure as he!! don't want anything to do with them.

redneck
January 21, 2003, 10:40 PM
The Smart Gun has already been around for a long time guys. It only shoots when you pull the trigger and it hits what you point it at. The problem is they can't make a gun that is smarter than people. I would rather work on getting rid of stupid people...

Roadkill Coyote
January 21, 2003, 11:07 PM
My guns are only as smart as I am? But they told me I had to ride the short bus to the range because my guns were... oh,

whoops, disregard...:neener:

Travis McGee
January 21, 2003, 11:09 PM
Let the US Secret Service use it for ten years first to test and prove it thoroughly.

bbrins
January 21, 2003, 11:29 PM
Heck, Bill Gates can't even get it right with Windows and look how long he's been at it.


Uh, hold on Mr. Robber, my "Smart Gun" locked up, gimme a few minutes while I reboot. Dang it, I restarted it with the magazine in, can you give me just another second?:banghead:

Guy B. Meredith
January 22, 2003, 12:03 AM
Okay, listen up here. I have one question and one statement.

Question: What is the purpose of "smart guns" or even integral locks and when are they supposed to be effective?

Statement: Except for preventing immediate use by goblins or little kids they are useless. There is no "smart gun" mechanism or integral lock that cannot be defeated by an intelligent teenager or goblin when given about 30 minutes and tools.

The mechanical versions can be defeated by removing barriers, the electronic versions with two wires and a battery. The VLe can be defeated by trashing the computer junk and putting direct leads between the ignition mechanism and a touch switch on the trigger.

Smart guns do NOT and probably WILL NOT exist that prevent unauthorized use.

TexasVet
January 22, 2003, 12:24 AM
Those trying to find ways to defeat a security system are seldom more than one step behind those working to make that system 'unbeatable'...
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Usually they are one step AHEAD. I understand that those great new gunsafes with the electronic locks and keypads can easily be defeated with only a 9 volt battery and a pair of wires.:rolleyes:

answerguy
January 22, 2003, 07:38 AM
Statement: Except for preventing immediate use by goblins or little kids they are useless. There is no "smart gun" mechanism or integral lock that cannot be defeated by an intelligent teenager or goblin when given about 30 minutes and tools.

You mention one pretty good selling point. And do you think a bad guy will be able to immediately re-wire the gun he just took from a cop and use it against him?

I'm not saying I want a 'smart' gun I'm just curious as to how they are developing.

Rickstir
January 22, 2003, 10:24 AM
Computers have been in cars for years. Right now I have two modules malfunctioning. I would hate to have my life depend on an oxygen sensor or an accessory module.

Computer guns.....no way Jose. :what:

anchored
January 22, 2003, 11:35 AM
I think the technology is possible, and can be made reliable. You have to consider that the defintions of "success" and "reliability" are different for computer and car manufacturers than they are for the users. The companies that make them depend on the money you will spend upgrading, replacing and repairing them much more than they depend on the money you spend buying them originally. OTOH, a gun manufacturer who relies on smart-gun technology will be financially motivated to avoid lawsuits and stay in the market - unreliable technology from them would cost them money. And, it's all about the money.

45R
January 22, 2003, 11:52 AM
The smart gun has already been designed.
It has a trigger when pulled fires.
A slide relase that drops the slide when pushed.
A mag release that drops the mag when pushed.
I dont think we need smart guns, we need smarter operators.

Why in God's green earth would I want a gun with a neural net processor controlled by M_____soft. What happens when you have a software failure or the gun crashs.....gives new meaning to the blue screen of death. :cuss: :banghead: :cuss:

I'll stick to my mechanical guns.

anchored
January 22, 2003, 12:01 PM
I think the technology is possible, and can be made reliable. You have to consider that the defintions of "success" and "reliability" are different for computer and car manufacturers than they are for the users. The companies that make them depend on the money you will spend upgrading, replacing and repairing them much more than they depend on the money you spend buying them originally. OTOH, a gun manufacturer who relies on smart-gun technology will be financially motivated to avoid lawsuits and stay in the market - unreliable technology from them would cost them money. And, it's all about the money.

benewton
January 22, 2003, 06:53 PM
Everything fails, eventually, and Murphy's law applies. The more complex, the more numerous the failures.

Today's "dumb" guns are, given good ammo, about as good as it gets.

If you increase the complexity, you also increase the probability of failure, even given that the "smart" guns aren't rigged to fail on command.
And you still have the ammo problem.

Since what I have goes "bang" on demand, I see no reason to "upgrade".

By the way, what state does the "smart" weapon fail safe to, live or dead???

Politically Incorrect
January 22, 2003, 11:51 PM
Electronics do not belong in something that you need to rely on.

Like the headlights in my SLS. I was driving down the interstate last week at night and my headlights and dash just shut off. I got off at the next intersection and before I pulled off, they came back on.

It's at the dealership and Lord knows if they will find the cause of it. I've thought about buying a pre-computer car next time. At least I can work on it. Of course, heated seats & mirrors, automatic tempature control, etc. are nice.

I will not buy a gun if it has any electronics on it to fire the gun. Sure the gun might be smarter than the person using it. But isn't that what we are really concerned about? How smart the shooter is instead of the gun?

What's next? Smart kitchen utensils? Scissors in an electronic lock box so little Johnny can't go running around the house with them? How about a baseball bat that will only allow you to hit baseballs with? Or a force field over a swimming pool to prevent unsupervised children from drowning?

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