Heavy Bullet 7.62x39 Loads


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jcollins1007
May 8, 2010, 08:02 PM
Anybody have any data/experience loading heavy grain bullets in 7.62x39? I'm loading it for a WASR-10 to go brush hunting for deer/pig. I'm thinking 180 gr or larger, and ok with going subsonic even though I don't have nor won't be using a silencer. Any thoughts?

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DWFan
May 8, 2010, 08:32 PM
No experience but according to a gentleman on another site, accuracy at the velocities possible is unlikely with the rifle's twist rate.

jcollins1007
May 8, 2010, 09:06 PM
I've read about people getting better results with 150 gr, and I can see how a heavier bullet would need more twist to get it stabilized. Still, the VSS sniper rifle, which uses a 235-ish grain 9mm bullet is subsonic and is used in a 9" barrel (the rest is silencer). My end goal is to have the closest thing to that without re-barreling and paying for a silencer stamp.

jcollins1007
May 8, 2010, 09:09 PM
Correction: 200mm barrel (about 7.9") and a 16.8g bullet (about 260gr)

R.W.Dale
May 8, 2010, 10:52 PM
I used load 170g 30-30 FP's to shoot in my x39 AR15

they shot quite well and fed GREAT with the right charge of H335 netting appx 1950 FPS

Well within this bullets expansion envelope. Which is a factor you want to be VERY aware of. You can't just use any bullet ad as low a velocity as you want and expect it to expand.

armoredman
May 8, 2010, 11:40 PM
I don't know yet, but tomorrow I will starting to work up loads with a cast 160 grain gas checked bullet.

steve4102
May 9, 2010, 03:42 AM
Data from 125gr up to 240gr.
http://www.accuratereloading.com/76239.html

Marlin 45 carbine
May 9, 2010, 11:55 AM
I've had good results so far on paper with Speer's 150gr flat base Spitzer out of my Mini30. atop 322.
I'm doubtful of the standard 123gr sp effectiveness beyond about 125 yds on large deer. it's all placement of course but if conditions made a boiler room shot or shoulder shot necessary or a rakeing shot then the 150gr would likely do better. just my .02

Clark
May 10, 2010, 01:21 PM
I have worked up a 180 gr load in an SKS with H110.

I blew the firing pin out of the bolt.

It is not a strong gun to fool around with.

rbernie
May 10, 2010, 01:34 PM
I hunted for years with a 7.62x39 16" AR15, and these are from my loading notes:Load, brass length, primer, powder, charge, bullet, OAL, average velocity
7.62x39 1.520 CCI 400 H322 25gr Hornady 174 RN 2.250 1950
7.62x39 1.520 CCI 400 H322 28gr Hornady 150 SP 2.250 2200
7.62x39 1.520 CCI 400 H4198 27gr Sierra 125 SP 2.200 2400Brass was Remington (hence the use of small rifle primers).

Marlin 45 carbine
May 10, 2010, 03:10 PM
the load there with the 150gr Hornady is about what I'm hopeing for, don't have a chrono but a 26.5gr charge is a compressed load with the Speer, I'm going to try the Sierra pro-hunter which evidently is known for good expansion. and use 4198 powder. this is Mini 30.
I've used my 30 for 2 doe tags so far with the Winny 123gr sp factory load. both good-sized does, one a neck/base of skull shot broadside at about 100 feet dern near blew it's head off. this was a standing rest shot I had time for dead aim. the other was front-on at about 75 yds slowly moveing. I shot too low standing off-hand and the slug went right down the gullet the jacket came off in the stomach the core was stuck in the pelvic bone it made a huge jump and ran maybe 20' then dropped and kicked a bit. dead is dead of course but I feel the 123gr s-p slugs are too light for bigger deer or bear/hogs at range beyond what an aimed shot to the heart/neck/skull can be taken.

steve4102
May 10, 2010, 08:25 PM
I'm going to try the Sierra pro-hunter which evidently is known for good expansion.

Which 150gr "Pro Hunter" the .308 or the .311? I talked to Sierra a few years ago about their 125gr and 150gr .308 Pro Hunters and the Mini-30. They told me that the 125 and 150gr PH were designed for higher velocities and they would be a poor choice for the velocities of the 7.62x39, "pencil through" was the term they used. I have no idea what the .311 will do or what velocities it was designed for.

Armed with that info I looked toward the 150gr 30-30 class bullets. I tested them all and the 150gr Hornady 30-30 Rn came out on top. Accurate as hell and terminal performance was excellent.

You ever get a chance to ballistic media test those bullets I sent you?

R.W.Dale
May 10, 2010, 08:42 PM
I lost a deer due to using a 150 .311 pro hunter in a cartridge too slow for it's design parameters. In fact it was the cartridge being discussed here

jimmyraythomason
May 10, 2010, 08:59 PM
I lost a deer due to using a 150 .311 pro hunter in a cartridge too slow So...what happened? Did the deer out run it?

R.W.Dale
May 10, 2010, 09:36 PM
It took off after a through and through shot broadside through the lungs and then hightailed it to the horizon leaving very small but foamy bloodtrail for severa hundred yards.

The deer was hit well as per it's reaction and the bullet kicked up dust after passing through. Giving me every indication the bullet failed to expand. Afterward I went to a more fragile bullet and have had no such repeat.

jimmyraythomason
May 10, 2010, 09:39 PM
BTDT, I think all who hunt deer will experience the same thing if they hunt long enough. I had this exact thing happen on a large Bama buck with a 30-30 175gr @ <30yds.

rbernie
May 11, 2010, 12:13 AM
I prefer lighter/softer bullets for deer. The .311/.312 150gr and 174gr bullets open up well on hogs (presumably due to the heavier construction of the hogs).

steve4102
May 11, 2010, 12:17 AM
lost a deer due to using a 150 .311 pro hunter in a cartridge too slow for it's design parameters. In fact it was the cartridge being discussed here

Then I would guess the .311 and the .308 PH are running about the same as far as "design parameters" go, I'm not surprised. They are just to tough for the wimpy velocities of the 7.62x39. 30-30 class or Ballistic Tip class are about the best you can do with this little guy with 150+gr bullets.

Sure wish Sierra would bring back the 135gr Single Shot Pistol bullet, the perfect bullet for the 7.62x39.

Marlin 45 carbine
May 11, 2010, 09:20 AM
Steve- I've made the 'box' to hold the test medium, wet stacked cardboard and wet packed sawdust but haven't finished loading the slugs yet. I had some Nosler 125's on hand - I had tryed them on paper before they dropped too much to suit me. I'm thinking I'll nix the Sierra 150 after reading here of it's lack of performance and replace with the Hornady rn 30-30 slug although I'm going to try the Speer anyway at about 75 yds along with some others.
that is when time permits I'm seriously considering going to the Gulf for the clean-up the economy is in the tank around here and work is really slow here.

armoredman
May 12, 2010, 07:54 PM
I finally got some loaded, testing tomorrow morning if the weather co-operates.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/castcz527loads.jpg

jcollins1007
May 13, 2010, 06:34 PM
My biggest concern with this is 1) whether or not the heavy bullet will cycle the action, 2) will my 16.25" barrel and twist rate be a concern, and 3) will said bullet be in the window to expand. These bullets are going to be flying slower than normal, so is there a bullet brand that works best for these lower velocities?

armoredman
May 21, 2010, 01:56 PM
Well, I had to wait for a new scope to arrive, and then to get out to da range, but these boolits didn't do too bad.

First group of home cast rifle boolits.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527firstcast.jpg

Last group when I ran out.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/CZ5272ndcast.jpg

I think I am on to something. :) Short range, but i was sighting in the scope. Next time I will get to the 100 yard range.

Edit to add, cleanup was a breeze, no leading with these wheel weight cast slugs.

juk
May 22, 2010, 06:41 AM
Would the 30 cal (30-30) LeverEvolution bullet work in the x39 case? Better yet, what is the bore diameter of the 527 carbine in x39? 310?

steve4102
May 22, 2010, 11:04 AM
Would the 30 cal (30-30) LeverEvolution bullet work in the x39 case? Better yet, what is the bore diameter of the 527 carbine in x39? 310?

Yes and yes. 527 is .310 and a .308 bullet will work. Will it be accurate? Duno. Will it be safe, yes.

armoredman
May 22, 2010, 01:41 PM
.308 won't be nearly as accurate due to the bore dimensions. I prefer the Hornady .310 Soft Point for my jacketed rounds.

R.W.Dale
May 22, 2010, 02:11 PM
.308 won't be nearly as accurate due to the bore dimensions. I prefer the Hornady .310 Soft Point for my jacketed rounds.
Are you 100% sure of that? As in have you actually tested .308" diameter bullets in a 527?

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2274479#post2274479
See this thread

armoredman
May 22, 2010, 03:38 PM
No, I am not 100% sure, as I won't spend money on bullets that aren't what I want to use. If you want to send me a selection, I will load them and report the results.

SCPigpen
May 22, 2010, 04:27 PM
I have tested 308 bullets in a bore that slugged @ 310.(AK type) I was getting 3-4 groups at 30yrds. 147gr bullets were giving me 1-2 inch groups(closer to 1) at the same range.

armoredman
May 22, 2010, 10:07 PM
BTW, I wasn't trying to be a jerk, I simply don't have the money to buy bullets I wouldn't normally use. I would happily try a few and post results if somebody wanted to send me some.

R.W.Dale
May 22, 2010, 10:41 PM
Nor am I

I just want people to stop and concider some of the assumptions that are always made and in some cases to it's detriment with reguards to this cartridge.

armoredman
May 22, 2010, 11:53 PM
I am used to that! "You ain't gonna hit nuttin' with that commie bullet, son, quit wastin' yer time!"
But all I have used is .310 sized bullets.

armoredman
May 27, 2010, 02:36 PM
I got back out with the CZ 527 today, and was happy to see the Bushnell scope had easily kept it's zero. I had only gotten dialed in at 50 yards, so today it the 100 yard turn. That went well enough, and then it was time to try out some of my new cast boolits at 100 yards. Results were interesting....

First, the light 16.0 AA#1680 grain load...and I didn't realize how light it was until I discovered how far the slug dropped! The second group I held over approximately 6 inches, using the multi-X recticle on the Bushnell scope. Nice feature, that. It was also interesting to hear the boom...and then the boolit going through the paper.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527cast1004.jpg

This was a decent sighting in group at 100. BTW, the taped over group next to it is from the 123gr FMJ I was sighting the scope in with.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527cast1003.jpg

Shoot 5 for a REAL group. 3 shot groups are for sighting in. :)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527cast1002.jpg

I tried an 18.0 grain load, more oopmh, but still had to hold 3 inches over.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527cast100.jpg

Cleanup was once again a cinch, no leading, the air dropped wheel weight boolits and the 30 caliber gas checks did thier jobs well.

This is an ongoing experiment, of course, but I think I can say the cast gas checked boolits will definately do the job, when I find the right powder charge. 8)

armoredman
May 30, 2010, 12:21 PM
Guess the enthusiasm for this thread died out quick. :)

jcollins1007
June 5, 2010, 07:35 PM
I got some Speer 180gr round nosw (.311") that I can't wait to try. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a move, so all my reloading equipment is in boxes... :(

jjohnson
June 5, 2010, 10:51 PM
Clark said: I blew the firing pin out of the bolt.


Jeez, :what: did you return the SKS under warranty? :eek:

Just kidding. Was it a "real" Russian SKS, or somebody else's copy? Just wondering - I've loaded some heavy bullets for testing, not to high pressures or anything. This is the first I'd heard about SKS being weak, but I know you're more an engineer than most of us. Just curious.

Hope you're all in once piece and didn't soil yourself.......

jjohnson
June 5, 2010, 10:56 PM
Oh - don't forget, some of those "commie guns" have a bit of variance in bore diameter, and also, some manufacturers (like T/C and Ruger) have on occasion used .308 bores for their "7.62x39" firearms.

Myself, I have a Mauser in 7.62x39 with a .308 bore.......... if you're trying to get real accuracy out of this round (which can be a chore) slugging your barrel never hurts.

Kernel
June 5, 2010, 11:53 PM
With 180 grain jacketed bullets your ideal powder speed will be in the range of H322, 2015, N530, 10x, 3031, and H335. One of those (or something real close) will likely prove to be your "holy grail" -- high velocity, acceptable pressure, good accuracy.

Faster powders (like the guy who used H110 - a magnum pistol powder!) will result in peaky high pressure and poor accuracy. Slower powders - poor velocity.

Clark
June 6, 2010, 07:35 AM
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

jjohnson Clark said:
Quote:
I blew the firing pin out of the bolt.
Jeez, did you return the SKS under warranty?

Just kidding. Was it a "real" Russian SKS, or somebody else's copy? Just wondering - I've loaded some heavy bullets for testing, not to high pressures or anything. This is the first I'd heard about SKS being weak, but I know you're more an engineer than most of us. Just curious.

Hope you're all in once piece and didn't soil yourself.......

Looking at my notes:
RP brass WSRP 2.190", Sierra 2310 180 gr .311"
22.5 gr W296, primer pierced, .005" egg, Yugo firing pin damaged

"egg" is my short hand for extractor groove growth, that is a pre cursor to the primer falling out.

I remember from repairing that rifle that an Alb firing pin from AIM fits in a YUGO SKS, even though they have different shapes.

I believe the Yugo and Alb SKS rifles cost me ~ $80 each and came in cartons of (5) from Century or AIM. I probably got (20) of each for testing.

The Yugo SKS rifles were very well made and not accurate for me.
The Alb SKS rifles were poorly made and the stocks had initials carved in the stocks.

I remember doing trigger jobs and glass bedding and making a stock big enough for an American like me. The poor accuracy improvement results frustrated me.

I was also unable to get more power from small Boxer Rem brass than large primer Win brass.
I never figured out why.

I did not spend lots of time testing them.
I don't remember seeing 40 SKSs in storage, so I must have sold most of them. I remember making a giant sign with huge letters that said, "YUGO SKS $130" and the men who bought them from me could barely read the sign. I remember thinking that there must be many Mr. Magoo types with money in their pockets they can't spend.

I have had a Russian SKS in storage for 15 years, but have not fired it.

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