[Navy_Guns]

Yesterday I was shooting an off-the-shelf metal handgun spinner with my Polish Tokarev pistol and milsurp ammo. The range was about 5 yards and about 50 rounds into it, I got lit up with fragments. I'm glad I didn't put my eye protection to the test! One in each shin, one smacked me in the forehead pretty good, and I have a chunk buried in the triceps muscle on my left arm. The doctor said they're leaving that one in, that they'd do more damage than it's worth to go after it and that "it'll probably work it's way out some day"... :eek: Maybe 5 yards it too close for spinners with ANY bullets, or maybe the fast .30 caliber FMJ's are especially bad for that.

BE CAREFUL AND ALWAYS WEAR YOUR EYE PROTECTION!

[Warhawk83]

I have seen that round pierce a WW2 helmet. Can't remember if it was on History channel or somewhere on the net but I would definitely NOT be shooting metal anything at 5 yards with that round or any other for that matter.

The capability of that round led me to want a Tokarev, haven't found a good one yet though.

[RevolvingGarbage]

5 yards? FMJ?

You really should have seen that coming.

[Warhawk83]

He probably did.:D

Makes me think of the youtube clip of the guy shooting the .50 cal rifle, bullet bounced right back and smacked his ear pro.

[wally]

10 yards minimum for pistols, 75-100 for rifles for shooting steel. But you will get hit by splatter if you shoot enough. Bystanders usually get hit a bit more often so *everyone* on the line needs quality eye protection when shooting steel!

I've shot thousands of Romanian and Polish 7.62x25 at steel plates 10 yards away and don't recall any remarkable splatter hits -- a .22LR is so far the only thing that has left a mark -- came straight back and hit my middle finger just below the trigger guard.

[Thedub88]

thats why on the box it says use lead only!!!

[DMK]

I have one of those handgun spinners. The warnings on the box said not to use it at less than 25 yards, and use lead bullets only.

Now I see why! :uhoh:

[berettaprofessor]

Yep, I was looking to buy one this weekend; 3.5 inch spinner target for a 9 mm handgun said MINIMUM 30 YARDS range. Since, offhand, I wasn't sure I could hit it regularly with a handgun and since my range is only 25 yards, I didn't purchase it.

[Navy_Guns]

I suppose shooting the spinner a few days earlier with my 1895 Nagant revolver gave me an inappropriate sense of security. I found the lead cores right below the spinner and the separated jackets (in one piece more or less) just off to the side. I had to get within 5 yards to consistently hit the spinner with the Nagant because it is grossly inaccurate. When I was shooting the TT-33, I just went back to the same spot, not accounting for the fact that although they're the same caliber and bullet weight, the Tokarev's double the speed and 4x the energy.

So, yes you can all tell me how dumb that was, because you're probably right. I didn't post this to make you all feel good about yourselves, but maybe someone might read it and avoid a painful (or worse) lesson for themselves.

[Zoogster]

I know a lot of foreign 7.62x25 also has a steel core.

It is not supposed to be imported into the US due to federal law against armor piercing handgun ammo, but I am sure various amounts make their way into the US since it is the cheapest surplus on the world market.


If it had a steel core that would dramatically increase the risk of ricochet. Steel being much harder and not prone to deforming on impact.

[Shadow 7D]

Not to mention the whole beating the spinner into trash. I had a friend get hit in the the shin by a 9mm that bounced off a log at about 25yards, he was pissed, stun a bit...

[Navy_Guns]

OK, I just walked out there and checked out the spinner, and now I know why this happened. The target was 8 yards from where I was sitting, yes - too close. The new hits were definitely leaving marks, but not craters or dents. The one that got me came from the bullet hitting on a ~1/2" crater in the spinner where an acquaintance shot it from 25 yards with my AR-15 over a year ago.

[wally]

The one that got me came from the bullet hitting on a ~1/2" crater

Once the plates are cratered they are done, unless you get really far away as the craters "focus" the splatter back towards the shooter. Now you know why.

As I've said, I've shot thousands of surplus 7.62x25 at steel plates 10 yards away and have had no remarkable splatter hits.

If the plates are not rates AR500 you are throwing your money away and they will crater and get dangerous in fairly short order.

--wally.

[grain]

yeah, shouldn't be shooting at 5 yards like that.

its good that nothing serious happened to ya

[shotgunjoel]

Maybe 5 yards it too close for spinners with ANY bullets, or maybe the fast .30 caliber FMJ's are especially bad for that.
Well there's your problem!:uhoh:

[kenno]

Next time try shooting the frnt bumber of a 1952 Caddy!:)

[jojo200517]

Were all 3 fragments from the same shot or did you just keep going until you felt it necessary to stop to seek medical attention?

[sonier]

I was jsut about to invest in steel now lol................. ill stick to my wooden backstops and paper targets, plus when im done im burning the wood then sifting out the lead and re melt them all lol

[Clifford]

I shoot weekly steel matches and the min distance for any plate is 21 feet/3 yards. Even then I'm hit with splatter every time I shoot a match, you learn not to stand at 45 degree angles to the plates! Second thing that comes to mind is the possibility of steel cores in the ammo.

BTW steel plates are fine to shoot at just use lead or hollow point rounds and angle the plates to throw the splatter down.

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

5 yards...Why not just run up and kick the spinner and save on medical bills? :p

[Navy_Guns]

Dang, I just checked one of my 7.62x26 bullets - it's sticking to a magnet! I'm betting lead core with a copper-washed steel jacket... If I ever have to get an MRI, it should be exciting!

[Full Metal Jacket]

reminds me of that kid on youtube jumping off a roof into a basketball hoop.....

[longdayjake]

I once got splattered by an 8mm rifle fired at about 25 yards. Was aiming for a pop can but hit the steel stand I had set it on. That was one of the very first lessons I ever learned in shooting guns. Luckily what hit me was 90% powdered lead but a few chunks of jagged jacket material dug themselves into my elbow. The only time I'll shoot at or near steel targets now is if they are very very far away. Everytime I see somebody shooting stationary steel up close I cringe.

[oldfool]

"doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do that"
doctor - "stop doing that":rolleyes:

[Carl N. Brown]

Based on my observations plinking at a rock quarry (dust from fragments was easy to spot) I decided decades ago never shoot at hard targets (stone or steel) less than ten yards (30 feet, 9.something meters). Jacketed, over 1200 fps, a bit more buffer zone is called for.

I too have learned some lessons the hard way. Bottom line is BE CAREFUL AND ALWAYS WEAR YOUR EYE PROTECTION!

[Navy_Guns]

I just got the invoice from the emergency room - if I hadn't had insurance, this joyful experience would have set me back over $4,000. It's hard to believe the xrays alone were almost $3,500? Makes me wish I had my own xray machine, I could make $20,000 an hour with it.

BE CAREFUL!

[wilkersk]

Hey LT,

Those Xrays, even if you just had a 2view skull, bilateral lower extremity, and 1 upper extremity, 2 views each, that's eight images that have to be properly produced by a skilled technologist, using sophisticated digital equipment, and interpreted by a Radiologist (the MD the patient almost never meets in person), and then coded and billed by a whole staff of people who get paid to make sure that the hospital and the radiology practice get reimbursed by the insurance companies (who invented the term "weasel word").

If you had a Cat Scan of your head, which in many ER would be automatic for a shrapnel wound to the skull, that would be a whole heck of a lot more.

As it is, the "sticker price" is seldom the amount that is actually settled on once the insurance companies and the hospitals settle.

[aka108]

Talking about med. bills, I recently just came home from 2 mos in hosp. and 4 mos inpatient for PT. Bills totaled in excess of 2 million bucks. Medicare and Tricare for Life paid just a little over 10% of the retail price as full settlement. Either way, without insurance I'd of been four letter worded.

[Hatterasguy]

Yeah 5 yards is raelly to close for metal targets.

25 yards is pushing it with some rounds, I heard one guy had a ricochet at a range shooting at steel targets with an AK74.


I think fast light bullets would tend to bounce around more.

[Navy_Guns]

Those x-rays could have been interpreted by Barnie Fife - "Yessir, you got a radio-opaque foreign object right THERE next to your humerus! You been shot!"

So, what have we learned here?

1) Shooting metal targets with any jacketed round can be hazardous.
2) Shooting metal targets that have craters or other damage will be hazardous eventually.
3) Wear your safety glasses
4) Hurting yourself is expensive.

[wilkersk]

Those x-rays could have been interpreted by Barnie Fife - "Yessir, you got a radio-opaque foreign object right THERE next to your humerus! You been shot!"

So, what have we learned here?

1) Shooting metal targets with any jacketed round can be hazardous.
2) Shooting metal targets that have craters or other damage will be hazardous eventually.
3) Wear your safety glasses
4) Hurting yourself is expensive.

And, after "Barnie" reads em, you can come back in a couple of weeks with osteomyelitis and necrotizing faciitis because guess what(?) he missed something. Gunshot wounds are not as cut and dry as you think.

OTH, shooting metal targets with jacketed rounds doesn't have to be dangerous, if you observe a few safety precautions. #1 save the Tokarev for those menacing paper silhouttes standing in front of dirt berms.

[Navy_Guns]

I do wish I could re-name the thread, because the round and the gun were not the cause for my accident. For the price, I absolutely LOVE that pistol, it shoots very well. And the $84 per 1,250 rounds delivered makes it all the nicer. Hey - there's a thought... I saved enough on my bulk ammo purchase to cover my hospital co-pay! WIN!!!

[wilkersk]

I have a CZ52 which I really enjoy shooting.

Is that MILSURP ammo you're getting corrosive? Where are you getting it from?

I'm buying Winchester whitebox at around $20 for a bx of 50. But, I've heard that it is just repackaged Czech ammo.

[Ed Ames]

So, what have we learned here?


1) The term "frag" has been watered down to the point of meaninglessness.
2) Some people will shoot spinner targets at 5 yards w/ high velocity FMJ ammo.

I would add "stupid hurts" but I didn't learn it here -- taught myself that one years ago.