Physician will not fill out medical history form for CCP


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Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 03:03 PM
He listened to me, agreed that he had no objection to me owning a gun or having a permit. Then said no, he would not fill it out.

I was baffled by this and asked what the deal was and he said it made him uncomfortable. Reason being he said that he didn't fill out anything but work releases and tried to keep work and politics separate.

Not sure how that is political.....

I asked " Are you anti-gun?"
Response: " Very much so "

Apparently that is how it's political.

Should I call the state board on this guy or what?

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oneounceload
May 10, 2010, 03:05 PM
Why not go and find another doctor?

General Geoff
May 10, 2010, 03:06 PM
Find another doctor and tell all your friends to spread the word about his pro-tyranny tendencies.

Leanwolf
May 10, 2010, 03:06 PM
You need to find a new doctor who is not a far left Neo-Lib Progressive.

L.W.

Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 03:08 PM
Mainly because I'm broke at the moment. I will find another doctor, he has made it clear that it ain't gonna happen through him.

I just wonder if it is in fact legal for a doctor to refuse to fill out a state form.

General Geoff
May 10, 2010, 03:11 PM
The doctor is not employed by the state; I see no reason why he would be compelled to fill out any forms whatsoever.

rattletrap1970
May 10, 2010, 03:19 PM
Maybe his point was to show that he didn't believe in giving out or divulging any kind of your medical background to anyone. That's just the way it seemed to me.

Yo Mama
May 10, 2010, 03:22 PM
WAIT! You need a doctors note in your state to have a CCW? Are you fricking kidding me? What's next a note from your mom also?

Sorry, but never heard of this nonsensical requirement.

rattletrap1970
May 10, 2010, 03:22 PM
Not here in Connecticut. They can't even ask for letters of recommendation anymore.

Samgotit
May 10, 2010, 03:25 PM
WAIT! You need a doctors note in your state to have a CCW? Are you fricking kidding me? What's next a note from your mom also?

No, you do not.

Only if you answer yes to certain questions on the application.

armoredman
May 10, 2010, 03:27 PM
I asked " Are you anti-gun?"
Response: " Very much so "

Tell your doctor he's fired. Find a pro 2A doc in your area that fits your needs. Hire him, go on from there.

jfdavis58
May 10, 2010, 03:36 PM
I've done 10 minutes of research into Louisiana Concealed Carry. There are reasons, personal reasons, for an applicant to need a physicians statement. Other than that one should contact the OP.

It's invasive but understandable. If the OP is/has recovered and his doctor refuses to provide the documentation, I'd suggest and wager that a lawyer might be the next course of action. Ugly expensive, but probably they only path.

rattletrap1970
May 10, 2010, 03:40 PM
Well, then, in that case I wouldn't want to go to a doctor who was an avid anti gunner. I have to agree with armoredman. If more of these putz's lost their practice, maybe they wouldn't chime in with their anti-gun BS in medical publications and such.

A and O
May 10, 2010, 03:40 PM
You most certainly did not pay for this, did you?

ArtP
May 10, 2010, 03:43 PM
I firmly believe in 2A. I believe just as strongly with personal freedoms - even if I don't believe in the cause.

Even though I don't believe in the doctor's reason for denial. I believe his personal freedom, trumps your demand that he write you a letter.

I have issues with some peoples version of freedom. Freedom means freedom for all, not just freedom for causes we/you personally find valid. I'm not a homosexual, but if one is, I believe in their right to practice it. True freedom means "hands off" of other peoples freedoms as well.

An interesting arguement is one where a party believes in the legalization of drugs for personal and recreational use, but wants to ban others from guns. The other side wants to enjoy the right to bare arms but wants to make recreational drug use illegal. Both sides have can argue that the others' use is a potential hazard to society, and in both instances it can be. But neither side wants to grant the other any freedom - in my opinion because they don't practice the opposite themselves. It's a selfish position.

Drugs don't commit crimes and neither do guns.

For the record, I don't even drink. I'm just using it as an example arguement to demonstrate how many think of themselves as for freedom, but really are not.

Your doctor is exercising his freedom - let him, without judgment.

There is no such thing as selective freedom. It's an oxymoron.

DCR
May 10, 2010, 03:46 PM
A note to the state board of medicine, or equivalent licensing body, may work wonders - there's got to be an ethical requirement to remain unbiased and not inject one's personal beliefs into their professional lives (unless your state has one of those idiotic "conscience" statutes for medical providers. If this doc was working out of a hospital or part of a clinic he doesn't own, send a letter to the hospital or clinic regarding your concerns about the doc's inability to separate his personal beliefs from his professional performance at their hospital or clinic. Either, or both, will cause him some discomfort, if anything in preparing a written response should the board of medicine or hospital HR ask him to respond.

HexHead
May 10, 2010, 03:48 PM
I would report him to your state's board of professional responsibility, right after I found a new doctor and had him release your records to the new doc.

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 03:53 PM
He listened to me, agreed that he had no objection to me owning a gun or having a permit. Then said no, he would not fill it out.

I was baffled by this and asked what the deal was and he said it made him uncomfortable. Reason being he said that he didn't fill out anything but work releases and tried to keep work and politics separate.

Not sure how that is political.....

I asked " Are you anti-gun?"
Response: " Very much so "

Apparently that is how it's political.

Should I call the state board on this guy or what?
This is very intriguing... I was also puzzled about why you needed to see a physician for a CCW permit. What question did you answer "no" to? If it was a psych question, did you see a general practicioner or a psychiatrist? Your physician is under no legal obligation, and he had the right to not fill out your forms, and you're under no obligation to pay him for that visit either. This is very uncommon for a physician to do because of a political issue. He/she may refuse to give care, but once care is initiated they have to continue giving care until another provider can be found. This is why when docs "fire" a patient, they have to send a certified letter with the addendum that they'll continue care for x-number of days. I feel like there may be more to this story though. If you answered "no" to the typical listing of questions on a CCW permit form, the only relevant ones that would require you to get clearance from a doc would be the psych or drug/alcohol questions. I have to say, that if someone came to me for a medical clearance for a CCW, I would not give it- ever. Thought I'm an extremely staunch supporter of the 2A, I wouldn't risk the liability.

AirForceShooter
May 10, 2010, 03:53 PM
Report him to the state board and he turns right around and says he didn't do the form because he doesn't trust you with a gun and you're toast.
Beside he can always hide behinds fear of litigation of you do something wrong.

Get a new Doc

AFS

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 03:54 PM
A note to the state board of medicine, or equivalent licensing body, may work wonders - there's got to be an ethical requirement to remain unbiased and not inject one's personal beliefs into their professional lives (unless your state has one of those idiotic "conscience" statutes for medical providers. If this doc was working out of a hospital or part of a clinic he doesn't own, send a letter to the hospital or clinic regarding your concerns about the doc's inability to separate his personal beliefs from his professional performance at their hospital or clinic. Either, or both, will cause him some discomfort, if anything in preparing a written response should the board of medicine or hospital HR ask him to respond.
Wrong- this doctor is under no legal or moral obligation to write this letter or fill any form on behalf of this person.

WoofersInc
May 10, 2010, 04:13 PM
Quote:
WAIT! You need a doctors note in your state to have a CCW? Are you fricking kidding me? What's next a note from your mom also?

No, you do not.

Only if you answer yes to certain questions on the application.

There is a Federal Privacy Law called HIPPA. It protects the release of someones medical records. I beleive that the CCW board asking for your medical records violates this law. Under federal guidlines they have no right to it, since it is not being used to further your medical care.

I would report him to your state's board of professional responsibility

This will get nothing done. We have all seen the threads about the AMA and Doctors asking about guns in the house. Where do you think this stuff comes from? It is the state boards making those suggestions to the higher ups. I know here in Nevada, the medical board doesn't repremand anybody, for anything. Heck, we had a Doc that got caught at 2 in the morning in a car with a hooker, wearing nothing but a dog collar, and in possession of a large amount of cocaine. He kept his medical liscense.

DammitBoy
May 10, 2010, 04:20 PM
Maybe the doctor has a medical reason not to fill out the paperwork?

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 04:21 PM
There is a Federal Privacy Law called HIPPA. It protects the release of someones medical records. I beleive that the CCW board asking for your medical records violates this law. Under federal guidlines they have no right to it, since it is not being used to further your medical care.



This will get nothing done. We have all seen the threads about the AMA and Doctors asking about guns in the house. Where do you think this stuff comes from? It is the state boards making those suggestions to the higher ups. I know here in Nevada, the medical board doesn't repremand anybody, for anything. Heck, we had a Doc that got caught at 2 in the morning in a car with a hooker, wearing nothing but a dog collar, and in possession of a large amount of cocaine. He kept his medical liscense.
This isn't a HIPPA violation either. If the guy wants his CCW (which is not a right) then he needs to show medical clearance for one of the questions he checked on the permit application.
No different than your kid's school asking for a medical clearance to play sports, etc.

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 04:48 PM
There is a lot of judgement being passed without all the information. The OP needs to state what question he answered "yes" to.
These are the possible reasons from the La CCW permit applic:
13. Are you an unlawful user of or addicted to Marijuana, depressants, stimulants, or narcotic drugs?
14. Have you ever been committed involuntarily, or voluntarily admitted to any treatment facility, institution, or hospital for
the abuse of a controlled dangerous substance as defined in R.S. 40:961 and 964 or for the abuse of alcoholic beverages?
15. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally deficient or been committed to a mental institution?
16. Have you ever been hospitalized for any form of mental illness or infirmity?
17. Have you ever received medical treatment for a mental disorder of any kind by a licensed medical practitioner?
18. Are you currently taking, or have you ever been prescribed any medication used for the treatment of depression, psychosis
or any mental illness?
19. Are you suffering from any mental or physical infirmity due to disease, illness, or retardation, which could prevent the safe handling of a handgun?

So, if the OP answered yes to any of these, he needs medical clearance. Why didn't he go back to the original physician and obtain documentation that he no longer suffers from any malady that would prevent him from CCW? The truth of the matter is, no physician worth his salt would sign this unless they themselves treated him and knew the patient well. Maybe some things like a handicap tag application, but not a CCW.
What if the doctor, without knowing this patient's history or having any treatment records, signed this form? Afterwards, the guy carries a concealed weapon and in a moment of anger or despair ends up pulling it and killing a bunch of people?
You folks would be writing things like, "That doctor is an idiot and is hurting our cause". Too many of you too easily cast judgment.

Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 05:04 PM
The doctor is not employed by the state; I see no reason why he would be compelled to fill out any forms whatsoever.

Actually,he is.

This is very uncommon for a physician to do because of a political issue.

Well that is what he did.


By the way, I couldn't concentrate in my college classes. So I was given medication for it, BUT because I'm disabled and BROKE I had to use state care which requires "counseling" as well.

My advice to anyone who can't concentrate in school, figure out ANYTHING but talking to a doctor.They will pump you full of all kinds of crap which ends up creating problems with things such as this.

To reiterate: He listened to me, agreed that he had no objection to me owning a gun or having a permit.

Ed N.
May 10, 2010, 05:15 PM
Apply for a Florida out-of-state permit and avoid this BS altogether. We have reciprocity with LA, last time I checked.

General Geoff
May 10, 2010, 05:20 PM
Actually,he is.

For the love of god, why are you going to a state-employed doctor?

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 05:25 PM
Being employed by the state or federal government is irrelevant. A physician is not under any legal obligation to initiate any kind of medical treatment to any patient- period. However, once they start, they must continue. Who employs them is irrelevant. Worst care scenario, they get fired. In reality, that's not gonna happen. Not over you being denied a form being filled out for your CCW. Sorry, I sympathize with you but that's just the way it is.
Still, it remains to be answered: Was this doctor the very doctor that treated you initially?

As far as being "pumped full of all kinds of crap", did you ever say that you'd prefer to try something that didn't involve medication? Did you ask about alternatives? Did you use the school's tutoring services?

So, it sounds like you were treated for ADHD or something similar because of your "loss of concentration". Treatment means taking either amphetamine-based or methylphenidate-based drugs. If you don't take the meds, then you suffer from loss of concentration. Sounds like you're screwed either way.

Alternatively, and I'm not condoning this, you may want to try re-applying in a different state that is recognized by La., and just omitting this information.

gearchecker
May 10, 2010, 05:27 PM
You had him give you an examination, and paid for his services as required to be authorized to get a permit required by the state. It's no different than an exam for flight rediness. He's not holding up his end of the business agreement.

Call his office manager and tell them on simple terms "The prupose of the visit was XXXXX, I met the criteria and I need his signature to complete the state required paperwork. I'l be by tomorrow at XX O'clock to pick it up."

If they won't comply they are in violation of contract. Not that a $75 (or so) doctor visit is worth fighting over, but I would as best I could, just on the principle.
Maybe call the local TV station and set up a picket for a couple days. That ought to get his attention and his signature.

Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 05:29 PM
For the love of god, why are you going to a state-employed doctor?

I already explained that.

Ed N. The House passed HB 60? last week. It requires residents to have resident permits.They caught on to the Florida and Texas permits held by Louisiana residents.

All residents that want to CC must have a state permit by some date in 2011. It isn't a safety issue, it is a revenue issue.

Ed N.
May 10, 2010, 05:30 PM
Florida CCW eligibility questionaire here:

http://app1.licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/firearms/prequal_questions.aspx

Forget LA; just get your Florida out-of-state permit and avoid this crap.

General Geoff
May 10, 2010, 05:31 PM
A physician is not under any legal obligation

Key word here is legal obligation. He still (ostensibly) has an employment obligation if he's refusing to sign a form issued by his employer (the state).

Ed N.
May 10, 2010, 05:31 PM
> The House passed HB 60? last week. It requires residents to have resident permits.

Sorry, first I heard about that. Guess you're screwed. Does LA have open carry?

Samgotit
May 10, 2010, 05:36 PM
Apply for a Florida out-of-state permit and avoid this BS altogether. We have reciprocity with LA, last time I checked.

you may want to try re-applying in a different state that is recognized by La., and just omitting this information.


A bill (HB60) is up this legislative session that does away with honoring a permit from another state for residents of LA. That is, a resident of LA will be required to have a LA permit.

http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=704789

However, reciprocity between states is not affected.

Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 05:49 PM
Ed, if i get the FL permit before August it is valid until August of 2011.

For the record, I haven't taken any meds for 3 months with no ill effects. The doctor wanted to release me OUTRIGHT until I asked him to fill out the form.Now he says I should continue to be counseled for a couple more months without meds...

Indoctrination attempt?

For a little more background: When I was having trouble concentrating, I was taking 5 college classes, had major back surgery 4 months prior and was taking care of a 2 and a 3 yr old boy. You try frickin concentrating doing that....


We do have open carry and I do sometimes but I don't like the attention that it brings. Plus my OC gun is a Beretta 92FS and it gets kinda heavy to lug around. I have back and ankle problems.

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 05:57 PM
You had him give you an examination, and paid for his services as required to be authorized to get a permit required by the state. It's no different than an exam for flight rediness. He's not holding up his end of the business agreement.

Call his office manager and tell them on simple terms "The prupose of the visit was XXXXX, I met the criteria and I need his signature to complete the state required paperwork. I'l be by tomorrow at XX O'clock to pick it up."

If they won't comply they are in violation of contract. Not that a $75 (or so) doctor visit is worth fighting over, but I would as best I could, just on the principle.
Maybe call the local TV station and set up a picket for a couple days. That ought to get his attention and his signature.
You had him give you an examination, and paid for his services as required to be authorized to get a permit required by the state. It's no different than an exam for flight rediness. He's not holding up his end of the business agreement.

There's no "agreement", if the physician doesn't want to do it, he doesn't have to.

Call his office manager and tell them on simple terms "The prupose of the visit was XXXXX, I met the criteria and I need his signature to complete the state required paperwork. I'l be by tomorrow at XX O'clock to pick it up."

Pointless, will accomplish nothing.

If they won't comply they are in violation of contract. Not that a $75 (or so) doctor visit is worth fighting over, but I would as best I could, just on the principle.
Maybe call the local TV station and set up a picket for a couple days. That ought to get his attention and his signature.

The TV station won't care because this isn't newsworthy and there's no "contract".

blackrussian
May 10, 2010, 05:59 PM
I take it this guy is in Monroe, correct? Name him, I'd like to know whom to avoid. Thanks

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 06:02 PM
Key word here is legal obligation. He still (ostensibly) has an employment obligation if he's refusing to sign a form issued by his employer (the state).
Technically true...but the employers, whether they be the state or private hopspital or clinic, won't do anything about this. This is super duper chump change. You think they're gonna fire a doc who brings in hundreds of thousands in revenue annually b/c some college kid with ADHD is complaining that the doc won't fill out his form so he can carry a concealed firearm? Get real. Right or wrong, I'm just stating the reality of the situation. Furthermore, especially if this is not the original treating physician, no employer is going to hold this action against the doctor either. Society is too litigious to encourage a physician to give de facto permission for a mental health patient to carry a concealed weapon.

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 06:05 PM
Ed, if i get the FL permit before August it is valid until August of 2011.

For the record, I haven't taken any meds for 3 months with no ill effects. The doctor wanted to release me OUTRIGHT until I asked him to fill out the form.Now he says I should continue to be counseled for a couple more months without meds...

Indoctrination attempt?

For a little more background: When I was having trouble concentrating, I was taking 5 college classes, had major back surgery 4 months prior and was taking care of a 2 and a 3 yr old boy. You try frickin concentrating doing that....


We do have open carry and I do sometimes but I don't like the attention that it brings. Plus my OC gun is a Beretta 92FS and it gets kinda heavy to lug around. I have back and ankle problems.
You have back and ankle problems that are aggravated by a 34oz handgun? Do you really think they'll be alleviated any by carrying a lighter pistol?

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 06:10 PM
"For a little more background: When I was having trouble concentrating, I was taking 5 college classes, had major back surgery 4 months prior and was taking care of a 2 and a 3 yr old boy. You try frickin concentrating doing that...."

But you were the one who went to the doctor for drugs, right?
I guess the epidemic of not taking responsibility for our actions also extends to 2A proponents as well...

NOLAEMT
May 10, 2010, 06:15 PM
i think the law is stupid. but until it gets changed your pretty much SOL.

No doctor is going to sign a form like that the first time you go to see them, they are going to tell you that the Dr that has been treating you needs to fill out the form.

Trying to threaten your doctor is not going to work. he has no obligation to do anything like this, and in fact if you get upset at him, start yelling about how he is violating your rights, and you need to carry a gun, etc. to someone who already thinks its dangerous to do so, and you're likely to find yourself involuntarily committed to the hospital for a psych evaluation

kingpin008
May 10, 2010, 06:19 PM
Alabama - back off a little bit. You're not in Warhawk's shoes. People do what they think is necessary to fix the problem at hand at the particular point in time, and sometimes it comes back to bite 'em in the ass.

Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 06:20 PM
Nola, I know I can't force him to do anything. Also,I'm not an uproarious person and in no way need to be involuntarily committed.

Alabama2010: You have back and ankle problems that are aggravated by a 34oz handgun? Do you really think they'll be alleviated any by carrying a lighter pistol?

I have an IWB holster and a Glock 27 I carry around the house with no problems whatsoever. Having the Beretta on my hip does bother me,open carry much? Try a big ass berretta. To the drug seeking comment, did you come by just to be an ******* or what?


As a side note,how many people do you think have EVER been prescribed anti depressants? They prescribe anti depressants for smoking cessation for God's sake. That is the question I had to answer yes to and the question shouldn't even be on the form. I think the voluntary/involuntary commission question pretty much covers crazy.

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 06:24 PM
Alabama - back off a little bit. You're not in Warhawk's shoes. People do what they think is necessary to fix the problem at hand at the particular point in time, and sometimes it comes back to bite 'em in the ass.
No, I think I'll stand my ground. I believe he'll just continue to make one excuse after another. It's easy for him to go to a public forum and make a generalized statement, but when pressed his story becomes increasingly hazy. Initially, it was presented as a case where an anti-2A doctor told him he wouldn't fill the form. Then we find out he answered "yes" to one of the questions on the CCW permit. Then we found out what for (more or less). Then there's the toddlers he's taking care of, his back problem, his ankle problem, his 5 college classes. Honestly? I don't think he needs a CCW either.

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 06:26 PM
Nola, I know I can't force him to do anything. Also,I'm not an uproarious person and in no way need to be involuntarily committed.

Alabama2010:

I have an IWB holster and a Glock 27 I carry around the house with no problems whatsoever. Having the Beretta on my hip does bother me,open carry much? Try a big ass berretta. To the drug seeking comment, did you come by just to be an ******* or what?


As a side note,how many people do you think have EVER been prescribed anti depressants? They prescribe anti depressants for smoking cessation for God's sake. That is the question I had to answer yes to and the question shouldn't even be on the form. I think the voluntary/involuntary commission question pretty much covers crazy.
Ahh, more information! So it wasn't ADHD meds you were prescribed, is that correct? It was anti-depressants- is that correct? Were you prescribed anti-depressants for smoking cessation or depression? If it was the former, which anti-depressant was prescribed?

Also, the Glock 27 is something like 14oz lighter...that 14 oz is really aggravating your back and ankle problems....really? Really?

Something just doesn't sound right....

Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 06:34 PM
Based on what?
1. To need a medical release I would have to have a medical problem...no haze involved.
2. How are my kids relevant to my ccw qualification when the doctor doesn't have a problem with me owning firearms, shooting firearms, and open carrying on a regular basis?
3. My physical problems do not inhibit my ability to shoot. 25 yard bullseye with a compact glock pretty much blows that one out of the water.
4. I'm a senior in college,have a problem with college in general or what?
5. You don't determine whether I am qualified,my physician does, he says I am but won't fill out the form.

and YES he is my original treating physician, I think you need counseling for your narcissistic tendencies.

NOLAEMT
May 10, 2010, 06:35 PM
I wasn't trying to say that you were. But when physicians commit someone, they call us to take them to the hospital, and I've seen what some doctors see as a "threat to themselves" and usually it is right on, but every once in a while I have someone goes unnecessarily, and I wouldn't want that to happen to someone.

A lot of people don't believe that they can be taken "against their will," and in Louisiana you might be surprised with what qualifies. ex. anyone who has any signs of intoxication can be taken to the hospital against their will if the med control physician at the hospital thinks it is necessary.

You can have nystagmus after 3 beers, and then if you trip on the curb, or stumble on your way home and the cops or someone else sees it, they might call us, I get there and after examining you have to call the hospital to clear it through them to let you go, and sometimes the doctor says no, and that they have to come in for him to examine them. then by law i have to take them to the hospital, by whatever means necessary. I have so many people that don't believe us when I say you have to go, and they try to fight, but I've yet to have anyone win.

MattTheHat
May 10, 2010, 06:37 PM
Honestly? I don't think he needs a CCW either.

I guess it's fortunate for many of us that your opinion of whether or not we "need" a CCW is of no consequence.


-Matt

Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 06:40 PM
The positioning of the gun and the weight hanging on my hip is. My right ankle does not move, which puts extra stress on the rest of my body when walking, particularly my left hip. You're complete lack of understanding how that could bother someone with orthopedic problems tells me you have never stubbed a toe or open carried a heavy gun.

Are you trying to make me have a psychotic episode to prove your self right?

Never said I had ADHD either, told the doctor I had problems concentrating and he gave me two different meds one for energy and one for mood. He said I would be able to concentrate and I could. As I have said I haven't taken medication for 3 months with no ill effects and my life situation has not changed one iota.

MattTheHat
May 10, 2010, 06:44 PM
then by law i have to take them to the hospital, by whatever means necessary. I have so many people that don't believe us when I say you have to go, and they try to fight, but I've yet to have anyone win.

I guess it depends on your body weight and the state's definition of intoxicated as well as how quickly the beers were consumed.

I'm a big guy and I don't believe I'd be legally intoxicated after three beers. If you tried to take me to the hospital against my will, (or anywhere else for that matter), that would fall under the category of false arrest. If I remember correctly, (in Texas), that's one of the things that justifies my use of my concealed weapon!


-Matt

NOLAEMT
May 10, 2010, 06:50 PM
Perhaps wait a little while and then go back, and very nicely explain why you would like to have a CCW Permit, focus on the practical aspects, instead of just " i need it to protect myself" say how it would help you carry a smaller gun, to help go to and from the range where you shoot bullseye. etc. and tell him that it is not permission from him, but just that you are medically cleared to shoot and carry a gun.

Despite what many people on the interwebs believe, you have to be extremely bright to complete medical school, so he should listen to a logical argument. Or you can start seeing another doctor, and see him for a while, a couple months, and then bring in the form for him to sign. if he's been seeing you, and has a good understanding of your medical history, and your mental status, he might be inclined to fill out the form.

in the mean time, write to your politicians and ask them to repeal that part of the ccw laws. they are unnecessary and silly.

for what its worth I've yet to hear anything that would make me think that you couldn't ccw. If you were sitting behind me at dinner i wouldn't feel at all uneasy.

Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 06:57 PM
Thank you for that NOLA.
I will be writing my representatives,I haven't researched anywhere but FL but I know that prescription question does not appear on their application.

I did explain the practical aspect, and the fact that it wasn't permission, he wasn't the deciding factor, etc,etc. He said it made him feel uncomfortable even though I wasn't a danger to anyone and he knew my firearms background. I think he is doing this from an imagined liability standpoint even though he wouldn't have any and he just won't admit to it.

NOLAEMT
May 10, 2010, 06:58 PM
I guess it depends on your body weight and the state's definition of intoxicated as well as how quickly the beers were consumed.

I'm a big guy and I don't believe I'd be legally intoxicated after three beers. If you tried to take me to the hospital against my will, (or anywhere else for that matter), that would fall under the category of false arrest. If I remember correctly, (in Texas), that's one of the things that justifies my use of my concealed weapon!


Well, like you said it depends on your size, etc. but legal intoxication in a medical sense is much less than the .08 for you to be arrested for DWI. We also don't take anyone who is intoxicated to the hospital, but it is ultimately the decision of the doctor I work under at the hospital, he is not on scene, so we communicate via radio, and they air on the side of caution, as they don't want someone to go who is really in need of treatment, but doesn't know it due to alcohol.

but like I said, if you have any clinical signs of intoxication (nystagmus, slurred speech, staggered gate, scent of alcohol on breath, etc) the doctor can decide that you have to go, its not arrest, as we are not police officers, and in Louisiana law you forfeit your right to refuse medical care when you take a drink, so legally you don't have a leg to stand on. but if you do draw on emergency personnel, I can promise you, at the very least you will go to jail for a very long time, but more likely you will be killed on the spot by police. they are very protective of EMS, and come to our calls to help keep us safe.

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 07:19 PM
Based on what?
1. To need a medical release I would have to have a medical problem...no haze involved.
2. How are my kids relevant to my ccw qualification when the doctor doesn't have a problem with me owning firearms, shooting firearms, and open carrying on a regular basis?
3. My physical problems do not inhibit my ability to shoot. 25 yard bullseye with a compact glock pretty much blows that one out of the water.
4. I'm a senior in college,have a problem with college in general or what?
5. You don't determine whether I am qualified,my physician does, he says I am but won't fill out the form.

and YES he is my original treating physician, I think you need counseling for your narcissistic tendencies.
The liability isn't imagined as you state- it's very real.

Additionally, all this other stuff about your kids, and your ankle, your back, your classes, etc....this is all stuff you brought up. YOU initially gave a hazy account and backrground info. Consequently, if you're so physically weak/injured that a Beretta 92FS is hurting you when you open carry, then you may want to reconsider getting a CCW. Despite the 14 ounce difference between your open carry piece and concealed carry piece, one has to question if the lighter concealed piece will eventually aggravate your admitted back and akle problems as well. Additionally, there is a provision in the CCW law of La that precludes someone with physical ailments from obtaining a CCW ("Are you suffering from any mental or physical infirmity due to disease, illness, or retardation, which could prevent the safe handling of a handgun?). YOU brought up your ankle and back. Now it's easily seen as a point of question as to your fitness for a CCW.

Finally, you've given up a couple of different answers...so how about one final and complete answer. Did he say that he was not going to fill out and sign that form, or did he say to wait a couple of more months?

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 07:44 PM
I guess it depends on your body weight and the state's definition of intoxicated as well as how quickly the beers were consumed.

I'm a big guy and I don't believe I'd be legally intoxicated after three beers. If you tried to take me to the hospital against my will, (or anywhere else for that matter), that would fall under the category of false arrest. If I remember correctly, (in Texas), that's one of the things that justifies my use of my concealed weapon!


-Matt
Oh boy, you're just asking for trouble. Here's how it breaks down- if you've admittedly consumed any amount of alcohol and the soon-to-be arresting officer merely thinks your behaviors and mannerisms are suggestive of intoxication...guess what? You are. Irrespective of what the breathalyzer says. You may be able to fight that in court, but the decision to arrest you takes place well before and if you're a Mr. Tough Guy who's gonna pull a gun on a cop because you "know you're in the right"...well, I hope you have your affairs in order.

NOLAEMT
May 10, 2010, 07:59 PM
Oh boy, you're just asking for trouble. Here's how it breaks down- if you've admittedly consumed any amount of alcohol and the soon-to-be arresting officer merely thinks your behaviors and mannerisms are suggestive of intoxication...guess what? You are. Irrespective of what the breathalyzer says. You may be able to fight that in court, but the decision to arrest you takes place well before and if you're a Mr. Tough Guy who's gonna pull a gun on a cop because you "know you're in the right"...well, I hope you have your affairs in order.

I try to stay out of trouble, but it sometimes it seems like it finds me anyways...

what I was referring to was for a medical context, that has nothing to do with whether the police can arrest you for intoxication. it is not meant to be punitive, but rather to make sure you are able to make informed medical decisions, and not decide to refuse care when you are intoxicated. For medical purposes you don't even have to admit to drinking, if you have the signs of intoxication you're taking a ride if the Dr says so. people try the "i haven't had anything to drink...ever" thing all the time, and they all go to the hospital, because if you haven't been drinking then there is something else causing those signs and symptoms.

Like I said, I've had literally hundreds of intoxicated patients that don't want to go to the hospital. Sometimes the doctor says they can go home (usually we get them to call a sober friend who agree to take care of them). but sometimes the doctor wants to see them, and I have never had a patient successfully fight to the point where they didn't go.

Most understand and go willingly after being explained the situation, but some fight. I had a man almost break the nose of my partner a couple months ago, she is about 5'1" and 88 lbs. Needless to say he was asking to go to the hospital after about a can and a half of mace courtesy of the NOPD. we took him, but this time in handcuffs.

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 08:00 PM
Folks, being granted the ability to carry a concealed weapon is a privilege. Unfortunately, not everyone is either worthy or meets certain universally agreed upon criteria. Not everyone should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon.
It's true mental illness is no crime, but I don't see people protesting the government to allow paranoid schizophrenics the right to carry a concealed weapon- let alone own them. The OP, whom I will venture to guess is not personally known by anyone who's posted on this thread, was medically treated for mental health issues recently. With two drugs no less- one an amphetamine, derivative thereof, or a similarly structured analog, and the other an SSRI (it's extremely unlikely he'd be given a TCA). This treatment was given under the direction of a licensed physician.
This guy could potentially be mentally unstable or physically inable to be a safe and responsible carrier of a concealed weapon. I'm not saying he is or isn't. But I won't just fire off a line about how he should go to the Board of Medicine and complain or do this or that. Not without knowing all the information, and we've only been given bits of information here and there from the beginning of this thread.
Most states allow CCW finally, and the situation is improving nationwide. But this is a recent trend. There was a time, not long ago, that the opposite was true.
The OP has more to worry about than not being able to CCW. Until he gets this medical problem taken care of, he can't buy a new gun...

Samgotit
May 10, 2010, 08:12 PM
2010, Are you a student or a physician?

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 08:17 PM
2010, Are you a student or a physician?
Physician.

NOLAEMT
May 10, 2010, 08:18 PM
deleted

The Lone Haranguer
May 10, 2010, 08:26 PM
Post withdrawn.

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 08:26 PM
Do you know that they allow people to be police officers, pilots, doctors, EMT's, firefighters, and probably a hundred other occupations and be on SSRI's? Actually doctors have a much higher than average rate of depression and stress disorders that require treatment with antidepressants. so the next time you or someone you know has surgery there is a very good chance that the surgeon will be on these medications?

Depression, anxiety, or ADHD does not make someone unstable or crazy. In fact approximately 20% of people will have an episode of clinical depression in their lifetime.

He never asked for your opinion on whether or not you thought he should carry a weapon. He wrote to express his frustration over the choice of a doctor who admits to being very anti-gun, his feelings on this obviously silly law, and perhaps to get some advice from the people who post here.


By posting on a public forum, he's inviting my opinion. I apologize if my opinion doesn't mirror yours and/or anyone else's. I do know that pilots, doctor's, and many other professions allow individuals to work in their field while taking SSRI's. Again, this is irrelevant. The OP is the issue here. This person with physical, social, and mental health problems, wants his physician (the original treating physician who actually knows this person's medical history) to approve him for a CCW. His physician didn't think this was a good idea. We were led to believe that it was because the doc was anti-2A. Then we were told the doc asked him to follow up in a few months. The OP's statements are incongruous, and I think the physician made the right choice. Now, if in a few months he returns and is cleared by the doc and is still refused...well, let's wait and see what happens.

NOLAEMT
May 10, 2010, 08:39 PM
My problem with it is that he can still own guns, and still carry them openly, but this doctor is preventing him from concealing one. He isn't doing anyone a favor, not the OP, not society, no one.

you even said that you don't know his medical history but you feel comfortable in telling him he can't carry?

and yes I disagree. the 2nd amendment, and CCW is not a privilege, it is a right. Just because someone has taken away one of your rights does not make it a privilege.

He also said he was cleared by his doctor, until he brought up the issues of CCW, and then the doctor asked him to come back. don't you think it is possible that the doctor thinks that he is unstable simply for wanting a CCW permit? I know several people who have told me they think i am paranoid and should see a doctor because I CCW.

cassandrasdaddy
May 10, 2010, 08:42 PM
Physician.

that explains a lot and i am again reminded why i have a multi tiered pricing system for work

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 08:48 PM
"My problem with it is that he can still own guns, and still carry them openly, but this doctor is preventing him from concealing one."
That's a legal matter. What the law allows or prohibits seldom makes sense.

"He isn't doing anyone a favor, not the OP, not society, no one."
Unless he prevented the OP from harming himself or another because the OP lacks the concentration skills necessary to handle a firearm...but yeah, that aside, not helpful at all.

"you even said that you don't know his medical history but you feel comfortable in telling him he can't carry?"
I agreed with the doctor. If given spotty information by an admitted mental health patient with back and ankle pain aggravated by OC'ing a Beretta 92FS but not aggravated by a Glock 27 concealed vs. a licensed physician...sorry NOLA, I'm going with the doc. Just like if I was given spotty info by an accused criminal vs. a cop. I'm going with the cop.

"and yes I disagree. the 2nd amendment, and CCW is not a privilege, it is a right. Just because someone has taken away one of your rights does not make it a privilege. "
Sorry, the 2A and CCW are two separate things- and CCW is not a right as the OP has plainly experienced.

"He also said he was cleared by his doctor, until he brought up the issues of CCW, and then the doctor asked him to come back. don't you think it is possible that the doctor thinks that he is unstable simply for wanting a CCW permit?"
The reason is irrelevant if this physician thinks he's unstable, then he's not getting his CCW- why are you giving me flak for what his doc has done?

"I know several people who have told me they think i am paranoid and should see a doctor because I CCW."
Are any of them physicians?

leadcounsel
May 10, 2010, 09:00 PM
Dump him as a doctor, and tell him so and the reason why. He has failed to put his professional responsibility above his politics. I would question his medical judgement; would he TREAT you to the best of his ability if he knew you were pro2A?

I would tell him that you are also filing a complaint against him, and telling your family and friends of his unprofessional conduct.

Alabama2010
May 10, 2010, 09:07 PM
Dump him as a doctor, and tell him so and the reason why. He has failed to put his professional responsibility above his politics. I would question his medical judgement; would he TREAT you to the best of his ability if he knew you were pro2A?

I would tell him that you are also filing a complaint against him, and telling your family and friends of his unprofessional conduct.
Well within the OP's rights...but the OP needs to concern himself with something another poster to this thread brought up, and that's how dumping his doc will look to the next doc. It needs to be done tactfully. Personally, I'd use a lawyer and have him handle it but the OP doesn't seem to be able to use the services of a lawyer. But before he changes docs, he may want to wait out the few months the doc asked of him. If not, it may be viewed as non-compliance.

Either way, he needs to get it taken care of or he won't be able to purchase firearms from an FFL let alone CCW.

MattTheHat
May 10, 2010, 09:08 PM
Oh boy, you're just asking for trouble. Here's how it breaks down- if you've admittedly consumed any amount of alcohol and the soon-to-be arresting officer merely thinks your behaviors and mannerisms are suggestive of intoxication...guess what? You are. Irrespective of what the breathalyzer says. You may be able to fight that in court, but the decision to arrest you takes place well before and if you're a Mr. Tough Guy who's gonna pull a gun on a cop because you "know you're in the right"...well, I hope you have your affairs in order.

I'm not sure where the "Mr. Tough Guy" comment is coming from. I merely stated the fact that under Texas law, fighting unlawful arrest is a legitimate reason to draw and use my concealed weapon.

However, I will readily admit that whether the false arrest is for supposed intoxication or anything else, I can't imagine it turning out well.


-Matt

Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 11:11 PM
1. I do NOT believe you are a doctor.
2. If you are,you got the license in Tijuana.
3. I NEVER took an amphetamine based drug.
4. I'm not taking ANY medication and haven't for 3 months now.
5. The doctor does NOT think I am unstable.
6. He wants me to go to counseling now that I want to ccw.
7. He has PLAINLY stated he won't fill out the form.
8. He could fill it out and make sure they wouldn't approve me.
9. Concentrating on 5 classes,studying,etc... is a bit different than fine motor skills.

If you were a doctor you would be able to understand why carrying a 3 pound gun with a 16 rd mag would get aggravating. You are aware that people with NO physical problem complain about carrying guns that heavy,right?

My physical problems do not inhibit my ability to fire a weapon, I can't stand and plink for more than a couple of hours....that's about it.

There is absolutely NO way you are a doctor. I question whether you are of age to purchase a handgun from an FFL period. You are the one that keeps changing what you say is wrong with me.

Now I have social problems as well?

So, are you a pharm tech, a phlebotemist, CNA? Maybe? Or do you just watch all the medical shows on TLC?

Warhawk83
May 10, 2010, 11:20 PM
O believe me, I have dealt with plenty of them to know the percentage of *******s in the profession is quite high.

I just don't believe he is one of them, doctor that is, heh. He seems like he has perused WebMD, watched some TLC, and is completely Narcissistic. Which I'm sure there is a high percentage of that in the profession as well.

He keeps changing my diagnosis,telling people what meds I'm taking without me having said so. He was also WRONG.

Now he says I'm unstable, have social problems,and I can't possibly safely handle a firearm because I can't concentrate on it well enough. Because I needed help studying.... mmmmkay.

rbernie
May 10, 2010, 11:34 PM
Enough bickering. This thread is frankly not doing anyone any good.

I believe that Warhawk83 needs legal advice, and that ain't gonna happen on an Internet forum. I am sympathetic as heck, but I also know that nothing that is said here will help the issue.

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