Mosin Nagant 91 30 Accuracy At 25 yards


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15guns
May 14, 2010, 03:05 PM
Can anyone tell me why I couldn't shoot bullseyes at 25 yards with my mosin nagant 91 30? I had the bayonet on, the rear sight set to 5 , the gun on a bench with a shooting bag under it and I was using cheap 4.99 bag ammo that's 147 grain. I was shooting at a single silhouette target.

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dubious
May 14, 2010, 03:09 PM
For one thing, they shoot high. I think they are sighted for like 300 yards. For me, at 100 yards it shoots 6-8" high, even with the lowest rear sight setting. Try putting a piece of wire insulation on your front site to raise it up and make it dead on at 25 yards.

cleardiddion
May 14, 2010, 03:17 PM
You're close dubious.
7.62x54R levels out basically at ~200yds which means that at 100yds you're going to be shooting 2-3in high if you hold the front post on the target.
At 25yds you're going to basically have to hold it at the belt buckle level of target.

Actually if you aim for the belt buckle area, unless you're at extreme range, you oughta be hitting center mass pretty consistently.

GlockMan86
May 14, 2010, 03:29 PM
Are you suggesting that it will shoot 2 feet high at 25 yards? So, you have to aim at the belt buckle? No.

15guns, some 91/30s shoot high, and some shoot low. In the 10 or so that I have fired at 25 yards only about 3 of them were fairly close to point of aim, point of impact at 25yds. I suggest dropping your sight all the way down, and seeing where your group is. If you are shooting low, raise the sight a bit and try again (when you get it sighted in, make sure you write down or mark your rear sight so you can remember where you had it. Someday, someone will mess around with it, and move it.). Now, if you are shooting high, the wire insulation trick is a really cheap and easy way. It won't take much, and make sure you cut the end of it flush. You don't want to be looking at a slanted front sight post.

For what it's worth...

Most of the 91/30s I've fired have been pretty darn close at 100 yards. Holding on the neck will give face shots, and when holding center mass, there isn't isnt enough movement to worry about.

blakeci
May 14, 2010, 03:47 PM
Also, since you said you are shooting 147 grain, you may want to switch to a heavier bullet, like 180 or 174. The 147 grain ammo was designed for the semi auto designated marksmen rifles.

15guns
May 14, 2010, 07:47 PM
Yeah a couple said it was the ammo I was using. One thought it was 70 percent me and 30 percent the guns fault. But with the right 22 lr scoped rifle I can do bullseyes all day. So I thought it was more the mosins fault than my own. Actually at the 5 level in the rear sight that's as good as its gonna get. I must of spent 40 rounds goofing with that rear sight to see what level works best at 25 yards and the 5 is as good as it gets. I seen a guy on a you tube video that put some solider on the front sight to make it shoot better. You guys don't think a scope will help me much I mounted one? I already have a scope mount and a brass hammer but no punch to get the rear sight pin out so I can put the scope on. Actually as tight as this gun is I probably would need to take it to a gunsmith to have him get that pin out. One guy thinks my gun needs to be heated up cherry red before I can move any parts on it. Because I tried adjusting the front sight but I couldn't get it going towards the left so I had to put the bayonet back on it.

Shadow 7D
May 15, 2010, 03:09 AM
Go to 7.62x54.net and read the ballistics chart, they list the convergence levels, inotherwords

where the bullet would hit at with different ammo, and there is a large difference depending on the ammo used and the rifle used. m44 m91 m91/30 etc.

fireman 9731
May 15, 2010, 08:58 AM
So is it just shooting high or all over the place?

If you are used to shooting scoped rifles, the iron sights on a Mosin can be a little tricky to get used to. Once you become adjusted to them, they can be quite effective. I would not recommend scoping it. Unless its the right reproduction P/U sniper scope in the right mount. If its shooting high, that can be easily adjusted for. If its shooting everywhere, a scope wont fix that.

With that being said, what is the condition of the bore and crown of your barrel? You could just have one that is shot out and you wont be able to hit anything at 25 yards.

The first thing you should do it just get a bigger target and see where you are actually hitting. And secondly, don't go heating things up and trying to move or adjust them on a whim. You could very easily ruin a decent rifle doing that.

RevDerb
May 15, 2010, 09:02 AM
A 5 position on the rear sight means that you're aiming for 500 yds. Each increment is 100 yds so at the 20 setting, you're set up for 2000 yds. Your sight setting may be part of your problem.

15guns
May 15, 2010, 12:35 PM
Well I had it at 1 when I first started. It shot so high the first round didn't hit the paper. I shot it at 100 yards before with the rear site flat. It was shooting maybe 2 feet high over the target. I am using a big target now. It is of a body. It's working good at the 5 position so I'm sticking with it. If I go higher it get's worse. If I go lower same thing happens. I already have a scope mount. I might just put a scope on it anyways. I want to see the targets easier.

Antihero
May 15, 2010, 02:54 PM
Pull the bolt out and tighten the action to stock bolt, its helped my mosin.

Cosmoline
May 15, 2010, 05:41 PM
the rear sight set to 5

!! That's 500 meters! You were probably firing over the backstop.

caribou
May 15, 2010, 05:57 PM
Yaaaa check your screws, make them snug, pull the rearsight slide all the way to the rear and make your hold at the 6'0clock position of your target.

It does sound like your shooting high.

Light ball , 147gr. Silvertip or no color on the tip is "The " Mosin rifle round.

Heavy Ball, with yellow tips is machine gun ammo, made for firing over advancing troops as support during attack.
At 25 yards there will be no difference, but at 600+ the light ball will drop off much quicker than the heavy stuff.
Machine gun ammo isnt always the best stuff, it was made for a "Beaten Zone" type of fire rather than aimed fire.
When the Communist Block issed semiautos to designated marksmen, the light ball was already 50 years old, and the heavy ball 40 something.

Fact is, the Mosin can shoot both types, though a PSL or a Dragonov should only use light ball.
Maxims worked better with heavy ball, but the PK series did well with light ball, so when the Soviets phased out the watercooled machine guns, they dropped heavy ball as well and quit coloring the tips of issue 7.62X54r

My Mosin work very well with Czeck light ball, laquerd cases and silver tips.

A couple dont mind any ammo I put through 'em....

General Geoff
May 15, 2010, 05:58 PM
At 25 yards, my M44 is accurate enough to do this.

http://www.shadowflareindustries.com/images/30calcoin.jpg


The quarter was duct-taped to the target backing. The bullet went through with such overwhelming force, the quarter didn't even come off the tape.

15guns
May 15, 2010, 10:41 PM
Geoff what is done to your gun to make those kind of shots? Well now I have a scope that I'm tring to mount. I need longer screws. I will need a bigger case to. I'm not buying expensive ammo. Only cheap crap. 4.99 a bag stuff with the silver tip 147 grain. I was thinking about buying a pu sniper bolt but I doubt that would be worth the money. I don't even need a bent bolt on my gun so far. I have a shooting bag now. I was thinbking about buying a 40 dollar bi pod but I don't think I need it. It's just cheap old design rifle.

15guns
May 15, 2010, 10:45 PM
Umm there is no way that gun would hit the target or even close at the 1 setting. And I'm not gonna shoot low at the target. Gotta see what I can get it to do with this cheap bsa 3 x9 power scope I bought for it and utg tac rail scope mount. I didn't want to have to pay a gun smith 125 or over to get a scope mount drilled a tapped so I so bought this utg. It still needed filling. The rear sight pin had to be knocked out to and the rear sight and spring taken out. I didn't have a punch to do that so I took it to a gunsmith and had him do that. I did the rest. He told me it needs to be filed and showed me what places to file. He wasn't even gonna charge me because I'm unemployed and broke even though I did have 75 bucks cash on me. But I did offer to pay him 5 bucks. So he accepted it.

General Geoff
May 15, 2010, 10:52 PM
My best advice is to tighten up the action to the stock, keep the rifle firmly against your shoulder, and don't flinch! Also, you have to determine whether you're having a problem with accuracy or precision.

If you can eventually get repeatable hits on a target, close to each other, by aiming at any arbitrary point (even if the aiming point is nowhere near the target), then you have a sight adjustment issue. If all your shots are going wild and random, then it's either a problem with the rifle or with you.

15guns
May 16, 2010, 01:37 AM
How do you tighten up the action to the stock? Naw. I had it dailed in at 5 but it still wouldn't do a bullseye. Maybe if I kept on aimming it at the same place on the 5 setting maybe I would of gotten bullseyes then. I was pointing towards the center of the bullseye but it shot like 4 inches southwest of that. That was the best shot I made with it at 25 yards. I've been to the range 3 times with it now. What ammo are you using? Thanks for responding Geoff.

fireman 9731
May 16, 2010, 02:54 AM
Seriously, put your sight all the way rearward. Something has to be really screwy for you to be getting results like this if its the rifle...

General Geoff
May 16, 2010, 05:40 AM
How do you tighten up the action to the stock? Naw. I had it dailed in at 5 but it still wouldn't do a bullseye. Maybe if I kept on aimming it at the same place on the 5 setting maybe I would of gotten bullseyes then. I was pointing towards the center of the bullseye but it shot like 4 inches southwest of that. That was the best shot I made with it at 25 yards. I've been to the range 3 times with it now. What ammo are you using? Thanks for responding Geoff.
I was using Hungarian light ball.

Next time at the range, aim at the same spot for number of rounds (say ten or fifteen), and see how they group. If the group is small, then there's nothing wrong with you or your rifle; just need to adjust the sights.

RevDerb
May 16, 2010, 07:56 AM
Take a look at this site and specifically this thread http://7.62x54r.net/Forums/index.php?topic=3680.0 and see if you can eke some more accuracy out of your Mosin.

15guns
May 16, 2010, 10:51 AM
Well Geoff now I'm trying to put a scope on it. The next time I go out I'll set the scope and see if I can get consistancy of shots in 1 area on the target. Geoff is that the ammo that's 4.99 a bag before taxes like I have?

General Geoff
May 16, 2010, 04:24 PM
No idea 15guns, I bought this ammo a few years ago in an 880rd wooden crate, two sealed sardine cans inside the crate.

15guns
May 16, 2010, 05:46 PM
Yeah I think sportsmans guide has that Geoff. I think the ammo I have is like either bulgarian or hungarian. One of those Arnians. Lol j/k. I had to get diffferen scope rings but I just was able to get my scope mounted today. I gotta buy a big hard case for it and maybe a pu sniper bolt. I can't put the scope back to far on the mount with the current bolt on it. With the PU bolt I can move the scope all the way back on the mount.

caribou
May 16, 2010, 07:32 PM
Its not that you shoud shoot low, its that you should Hold low. Its called a 6'oclock hold.

Perch your target apon your front post, rather than cover it with the tip.

Also , at such EXTREAM CLOSE shooting, as your doing, all rifles will shoot high at least 3-4 inches, often quite more.

What are the #'s or letters on the base of your cartridges? The headstamp will tell. Czeck lightball (Silver tip) has BXN and a two digit date on it. Hungarian light ball is very simular just a gray insted of a dark green laquor on the case.

Most all Mosin's can group 2-3 inches at 100 yards easily.
I too can shoot quarters all day long , as long as I can see them, but Im a hunter, Caribou, Brown Bear, Moose, Muskox, ect. are what I catch all year long (I post inthe hunting section, pure Mosin Nagant) and its the accuracy of the rifle that does its part as long as I do mine with keeping it clean and having a proper hold on my rifle. The bullet does the rest.

Keep at it, and good luck

15guns
May 16, 2010, 11:15 PM
Well once I set my scope if all else fails I'll try the 6 o clock thing. I'll probably be shooting this rifle on a bench most of the time. I'm not gonna respond back anymore on this thread or read it anymore. Let's call this a closed thread. Thanks for the tips.

15guns
May 20, 2010, 12:57 PM
I know I said this thread is closed but I wanted to give you all a update. I just went to the range today. Shot at the 25 yard and 50 yard ranges. I have put a cheap utg scope mount and a cheap 3-9 x32 power scope on my rifle. I got 2 bullseyes at 25 yards and 1 and almost a second time at 50 yards. I threw out my shooting bag or I would of used it today. I was gonna set my scope for 100 yards but my gun is to heavy to use without a bipod or a shooting bag. I need a bipod for it. I didn't like the shooting bag I used to have. I got the shakes to bad to today trying to hold up that over 27 inch barrel. I also need a bent bolt body for it because the scope is hard to see good with it being so far up. If I can get all that and I still can't see good at 100 yards then I'm gonna get a real high power cheap scope. I firgured it must of been the iron sights that was making me so inaccurate the last time I was out. I was right. Ha ha. Man I'm good.

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