Help get legislation started so GIs can legally concealed carry on post


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lima_w
May 16, 2010, 07:30 PM
I'm in the Air Force and the massacre at Fort Hood has left me wanting to be able to legally concealed carry IAW state laws, much like we now can in National Parks.
I have contacted my congressmen from my legal residence in Texas, the ones here in Florida, and have written the NRA ILA.
Will you all do the same so that we can hopefully avoid another massacre on a military base, or at least end it faster?

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General Geoff
May 16, 2010, 07:35 PM
I think an act of Congress is unneeded to resolve this issue. What is needed is a change of policy and military carry doctrine, to the effect that a certain percentage of soldiers on any given base should be armed. Whether or not these soldiers are volunteers, specially qualified, or whatever, is (and should be) up to the brass.

hso
May 16, 2010, 09:28 PM
You haven't presented a plan because you haven't clearly laid out what you're trying to accomplish.

This is one of those instances in which I don't think that there is any chance of success. Because military bases have armed security on the premises and that access to the bases is controlled (even though it failed in this instance) and because you no longer are operating under the constitutional guarantees wrt the BOR the situation military personnel are in is fundamentally different than the civilian citizens.

LRS_Ranger
May 16, 2010, 10:02 PM
As us in the military know.. getting something on base is pathetically easy. Not only could I put a 2000 lb bomb in my car and drive it through the post gate with nothing other than my military ID, I could also "hop the fence" anywhere along the line if they did in fact check cars at the gate. So if someone wants to do this again, there is nothing stopping them.

As far as letting soldiers carry on post, it's never going to happen. There is no commander in the world that is going to risk his own career and jail time so that his soldiers can carry guns. If something bad happened he would be done. He's much more likely to lose his career than have it made by one of his soldiers doing something good with their guns.

Here is the way I look at it. If you are doing it right, nobody will know that you are carrying. If you have to shoot to prevent a Ft Hood incident, you will probably get the soldiers medal instead of a court martial. Better judged by 12 than carried by 6. But that's just one lowly enlisted man's opinion. FWIW

General Geoff
May 17, 2010, 02:17 AM
Here is the way I look at it. If you are doing it right, nobody will know that you are carrying.

Is it worth risking a court martial and dishonorable discharge, which will remove your ability to legally purchase and own firearms for the rest of your life?

WardenWolf
May 17, 2010, 05:03 AM
Honestly, I disagree with military personnel concealed carrying on-base. There are many, many reasons why it's a bad idea, not the least of which is that it is degrading to military discipline to allow civilian weapons to be carried by soldiers on duty. The Fort Hood massacre was a tragic event, but it was a failure of the base's internal security that allowed it to happen. Armed guards with rifles should have been stationed, but they were not. Instead they allowed the limited number of patrolling MP's to cover everything. Fact is, if Fort Hood was operating as a military base should operate, this would not have happened.

LRS_Ranger
May 17, 2010, 07:15 AM
"Is it worth risking a court martial and dishonorable discharge, which will remove your ability to legally purchase and own firearms for the rest of your life?" While this is an excellent point, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get a dishonorable discharge. Also, if our ancestors had this kind of put-your-head-in-the-sand attitude, we would still be singing God Save the Queen.

Wardenwolf, there is no major base that runs with that kind of security. That kind of security is just not doable for a large installation. It would be like trying to lock down and prevent all crime in a large city. It just isn't happening. You might have a small compound that has that kind of security, but you just aren't doing that to a base with 50,000 soldiers plus civillians and families. On Bragg here there was just some dude that was running around raping women. It took them weeks to catch him.

Honestly, I'm really suprised that this hasn't happened before, and I really won't be suprised if it happens again. I don't like doing illegal things, and I'm not advocating doing that. I'm just saying that my personal safety (in both my time on base and driving to it at all kinds of weird hours) is more important to me than some staff officer waiving his finger.

gun guy
August 7, 2010, 08:49 AM
while your intentions are good, any base or ship can not have unaccounted for weapons, ie concealed carry, etc. floating around on base. first, the military has its own way of doing things, you accept this when you join. there are proceedures in place to respond with force if needed. weapons are issued as needed. short of an active combat zone, small arms must be accounted for to the last round of ammo. you don't get to keep your m-16 hangin off your rack. as to concealed carry by an individual trooper, it aint never gonna happen (excuse the grammar)

Devonai
August 7, 2010, 11:08 AM
I am an armed security guard on a small military base in Connecticut. We have less than 250 people here on a daily basis although that number more than doubles on a drill weekend.

Between our guys with contract security and Security Forces personnel, there is a relatively high ratio of armed to unarmed people here at any given time. Response time for an incident could range from a few seconds to at most three minutes (unless there's already another incident underway).

Even in my case I would like to see more people armed. It only takes a few seconds to do a lot of damage, as history has shown, so the more personnel armed, the better. That being said, I would also frown on concealed carry and personally owned weapons. If there was some mechanism for non-security personnel to draw a weapon from the armory every morning (if they so choose), then great. Our pilots are trusted to operate rather expensive aircraft, so I would consider them to be the best candidates for such a program.

alsaqr
August 7, 2010, 11:37 AM
I'm in the Air Force and the massacre at Fort Hood has left me wanting to be able to legally concealed carry IAW state laws, much like we now can in National Parks.


It is never going to change. The US congress and the federal courts have long refused to get involved in issues that are the baliwick of the CIC. When you joined the AF you gave up certain rights.

Thanks for your service.

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