Glock and Missouri bullets


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retired old guy
May 17, 2010, 11:00 AM
Just bought a new Glock Model 34 and wanted to know if I can use the Missouri bullets in the stock barrel. I've been told I need to buy a new barrel in order to use these bullet.

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jfremder
May 17, 2010, 11:18 AM
Just bought a new Glock Model 34 and wanted to know if I can use the Missouri bullets in the stock barrel. I've been told I need to buy a new barrel in order to use these bullet.
IIRC most choose replace the stock polygon rifled barrel with an aftermarket barrel. Lone Wolf is a popular choice at ~$100

It seems the polygon rifling is prone to leading.

R.W.Dale
May 17, 2010, 11:22 AM
Lead cab be safely fired in a glock provided you perform due dilligence and clean the lead buildup from the bore before it becomes excessive. Say every 50 to 100 rds or so

ljnowell
May 17, 2010, 11:58 AM
I use the Missouri Bullet 230gr Softball in my G21. I have shot over 200 rounds without lead build up. In fact my g21 leads less than my XD or my 1911. Its about findng the right bullet hardness and velocity. I am running the softball at about 800fps and having no problems at all. I clean the bore every fourth trip to the range or so.

Steve C
May 17, 2010, 12:23 PM
Lead builds up quickly in a polygonal barrel. While some say they don't get leading they're not looking close or the right way. Run a tight patch from a lead wipe cloth through the bore of a Glock on a jag after shooting just a few rounds of lead bullets and you will see lots of lead on it. Look at the inside of the barrel an oblique angle rather than directly down the barrel and you will see the lead. Looking straight down the bore only shows a nice bright barrel as the lead smears evenly on the barrel flats.

rcmodel
May 17, 2010, 12:38 PM
My opinion is that bore leading raising pressure to dangerous levels was never the problem with the Glock polygon barrel.

The problem was leading and packed bullet lube/powder at the end of the chamber shoulder, which would hold the slide progressively further and further out of battery.

Older 1st & possibly 2nd. Gen Glocks were designed in such a way that they could fire out of battery by as much as 3/32" or more.
When the unsupported case was fired out of battery by that much, it was further unsupported, and the infamous Glock KaBooms resulted.

This was further compounded by the erroneous rumor that Glocks never needed to be cleaned!!!!

I have shot hard lead bullets (Linotype) in my Model 23 for going on 15 years without any problems.

But I clean my all guns throughly every time I shoot them.

Keep the bullets hard, and keep the chamber clean with a bronze bore brush, and it should work just fine.
Mine does.

rc

Hangingrock
May 17, 2010, 12:45 PM
My thoughts are using cast bullets in the Glock-OEM barrel is penny wise and pound foolish. That said people do use cast bullets with no negative consequence and there are those that have had a negative learning experience.

I’d go with an after market barrel that is suitable for use with cast bullets such as KKM - Precision.

Roccobro
May 17, 2010, 09:38 PM
RC again has done his homework. Not a Glock basher, but there is more to the Glock/lead drama than a century old designed rifling can cause all by itself.

Do your own research to find peace with shooting lead (safely too!) from your Glock.

Nobody will fault you for buying a quality aftermarket barrel with standard land/groove rifling either.

Justin

Six
May 17, 2010, 10:25 PM
Lead builds up quickly in a polygonal barrel. While some say they don't get leading they're not looking close or the right way.
:scrutiny:

I shoot MBC Smallball in my Glock 19.

After the matches the barrel looks dirty with lube and powder, I run a boresnake through it once, and it's clean with a few tiny tiny streaks. Run it through a couple more times and I'm back to a bright shiny bore again.

But maybe I'm not looking at it the right way?

Hangingrock
May 17, 2010, 10:26 PM
RC again has done his homework. Not a Glock basher, but there is more to the Glock/lead drama than a century old designed rifling can cause all by itself.

The best explanation “The Exploding Glock, Fact or Fiction by Mark Passamaneck, P.E. TY40422” chapter 1-4 found in The Glock in Competition A Shooter’s How to Guide 2nd edition.

The rifling type has a lot to do with it among other contributing factors

Five of Clubs
May 17, 2010, 10:41 PM
I have shot thousands of lead bullets through Glocks and never had any problems. IMO, this is some kind of internet myth that just won't die. I approached it like an experiment: will one round make my Glock explode? Two? 10? 50? 500? I checked for leading every few rounds, and saw that there was actually very little. I never shoot more than 500 rounds at a single session, so I stopped there. By the way, I use Stonewall bullets which are not known to be super hard. I do clean my gun every time I shoot it, but not because I think it might blow up. I just like clean guns.

But don't believe me, I may not even really own a Glock. Do your own test. That's my advice.

bootless
May 17, 2010, 10:57 PM
Be safe and save 100 bucks. Spend it on a Lone Wolf barrel or something similar.

Hangingrock
May 17, 2010, 11:15 PM
IMO, this is some kind of internet myth that just won't die. I approached it like an experiment: will one round make my Glock explode? Two? 10? 50? 500?

The best explanation “The Exploding Glock, Fact or Fiction by Mark Passamaneck, P.E. TY40422” chapter 1-4 found in The Glock in Competition A Shooter’s How to Guide 2nd edition. Following quotes:

“I inspected a G19 that had approximately 1500 hundred rounds of commercial lead fired through it. The rear chamber bore dimension due to leading was 0.323 inches after the KB. This pistol likely fired hundreds of rounds with pressure in excess of 60KPSI. The result was a cracked frame and horizontal split the length about 0.5 inches on both sides. The slide assembly lifted up and jammed, bending three of the four slide rails.”

“Do not shoot any lead bullets through a Glock factory barrel except one with a chamfered heel and a BHN of at least 22. And then, don’t ever shoot more than 100-150 rounds between cleaning”

“After 50 rounds with lead the pressure leapt to 34.2 Kpsi and continued to climb 100 rounds 35.1Kpsi, 150 rounds 38.8Kpsi, 200 rounds 41Kpsi, 300 rounds 45Kpsi. Fifty percent over pressurization (above the initial pressures) occurred at approximately 335 rounds fired”

Buy the book and read. There is a lot more information presented with lab actual testing.

ljnowell
May 17, 2010, 11:16 PM
Lead builds up quickly in a polygonal barrel. While some say they don't get leading they're not looking close or the right way. Run a tight patch from a lead wipe cloth through the bore of a Glock on a jag after shooting just a few rounds of lead bullets and you will see lots of lead on it. Look at the inside of the barrel an oblique angle rather than directly down the barrel and you will see the lead. Looking straight down the bore only shows a nice bright barrel as the lead smears evenly on the barrel flats.

I can tell you, without a doubt, that you are wrong. There is less lead in my glock barrel than there is in my 1911 barrel, round for round after shooting.

I can give real world experience, and it is 100% in agreement with RCs post above. Its a matter of knowing what you are doing, and paying attention. I am not even going to say that its safe in all glocks, or in glocks of different calibers. I just know that in my 3rd gen G21, there is no leading with the loads I have.

Of course, you may just want to tell me that I dont know how to check my barrel correctly.

Roccobro
May 17, 2010, 11:27 PM
The rear chamber bore dimension due to leading was 0.323 inches after the KB.

So was it the lead or the K-Fing-B that "caused" this measurement? :scrutiny:

I think I'll save my money and sanity by avoiding a "factual" book with such ambiguous language...

Justin

Five of Clubs
May 18, 2010, 12:13 AM
Buy the book and read. There is a lot more information presented with lab actual testing

This continues to amaze me. Every one of these threads that I have ever read goes the same way (and there have been many). There are a group of people that have never and would never shoot lead in a Glock shouting from the mountain top that, "it is super dangerous and never do it." The ones that are smarter and capable of a good debate usually bring The Glock in Competition in as a reference. Then you have a group of people shouting from an adjacent mountain top that, "we do it all the time and it's no big deal, but we clean our guns." The REALLY interesting threads have a third group that screams, "We shoot lead and don't ever clean our guns and it's still no big deal. Bwwwahaaahaaa." We haven't reached that level of awesome yet. What you don't see in these threads is a fourth group that says, "I shot 183 rounds of lead through my just-cleaned Glock 23 that was loaded well within safe margins according to my current reloading manual and then it exploded. Here are fourteen pictures from various angles that prove I'm not full of it. My load was X.X grains of XXXX powder under a 180 grain lead bullet in once-fired brass using a XXX small pistol primer with an OAL of 1.14. I know I didn't have a double charge, split case, bullet set-back because of XXXXXXXXXXXX. By the way, everything is fine except the barrel." That fourth group may be out there, and we all would love to hear their story.

Here is what I know: I'm not going to read that book. I'm sure it's good and there will undoubtedly be something in there that I could learn, but I'm still not gonna. Why? Because shooting lead in Glocks is not a problem for me. I even shoot lead through a second gen G22 in .40S&W.

Here is something else: If you show me a study with one finding, you better believe there is another study out there with an opposite result. The truth doesn't come out until many studies have been performed and a trend is realized and accepted as fact (see global warming). In 100 years, our grandchildren will all be shooting lead from Glocks (or none of them will). We'll see.

bds
May 18, 2010, 03:44 AM
I can only speak from my personal experience.

I have shot hundreds and thousands of rounds through various Glock models. Yes, I have even shot tens and thousands of lead bullets (24 BHN and MBC's 18 BHN) in 9mm, 40S&W and 45 ACP through my factory Glock barrels.

I have seen several Glock KB's. I have also seen several other brand guns blow up worse than Glock KB's. Although most of Glock KB's involved ruptured case bottoms with hot gases blowing down and ejecting the magazine, other gun brand KB's involved split barrels at the chamber with hot gases escaping through the split. After talking to the shooters who reloaded the suspect rounds (yes, they were all reloads and not factory ammunition), they narrowed the likely cause to double charges as many were aware of the tighter fitting polygonal (hexagonal) Glock barrels and kept the barrels clean and limited the number of rounds fired to under 100-200.

I do agree with RC as Wikipedia article also points out the transition area between the chamber and the start of the rifling to be a suspect for pressure increase. I also agree with many other posts and threads about different reasons why pressure increase occurs in Glock barrels when shooting lead (shooters not cleaning the barrel, shooters not clearing the lead/fouling build up, etc.) and rounds firing out of battery.

HOWEVER, I can't remember or have heard of barrel failure when shooters shot lead bullets using Lone Wolf barrels in Glocks. The LW barrels come with Lifetime replacement warranty also. I do not work for Lone Wolf distribution or have any interest in the company. I only speak from personal experience. I shoot lead bullets in LW barrels with confidence. When I shoot lead bullets in factory Glock barrels, I exercise caution and inspect/clean the barrel around 200 rounds.

Can you shoot lead bullets in factory Glock barrels? Yes, just as you can shoot reloads in factory Glock barrels. But you assume all liabilities and risk your safety and others who may shoot your reloads. I just like to reduce/minimize my risk factors as much as possible. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done by everyone. There are many who likes to load hot loads or +P/+P+ reloads. Can it be done without blowing your fingers off? Yes. For me, I prefer not to. :D

Peace.

Hangingrock
May 18, 2010, 08:30 AM
One may or may not choose to employ lead bullets with the Glock OEM barrel.

The book I’ve referred to previously during the course of this subject gives a balanced view point written by individuals concerning the usage of Glocks. A registered professional engineer specializing in destructive testing and analysis writes a chapter on failures it gains my attention. Especially when the information contains validated pressure test data testing.

I shoot Glocks and when I shoot them and employ cast bullets it is with an after market barrel with conventional rifling as opposed to polygon rifling.

Five of Clubs
May 18, 2010, 09:15 PM
Good Lord, I just realized this was the original posters first post. I bet he picks another forum after the giant nerd fight he just caused. I'll take some blame on that one. Sorry. At least he got a complete answer to his question from both sides.

frankge
May 18, 2010, 09:32 PM
Does the HK USP .45 have the same issues as the Glock. It's a fully supported chamber...

250-3000
May 20, 2010, 10:00 PM
I have run some 230 Gr LRN thru my H&K USP Compact. After 75-100 rounds it doesn't always go into battery, and there is a fair amount of leading in the rifling and at the front of the chamber. Now I use the LRN in my Kimber 1911 and shoot jacketed in the H&K. Polygonal rifling!

ljnowell
May 20, 2010, 10:03 PM
I have run some 230 Gr LRN thru my H&K USP Compact. After 75-100 rounds it doesn't always go into battery, and there is a fair amount of leading in the rifling and at the front of the chamber. Now I use the LRN in my Kimber 1911 and shoot jacketed in the H&K. Polygonal rifling!

Sounds like too soft of lead, or just a bad load. Lead needs to be pretty hard for a glock(or apparently your gun too), and they have to be pushed just fast enough but not too much.

bds
May 21, 2010, 03:37 AM
... they have to be pushed just fast enough but not too much.
Ah, the joy of reloading ... finding the sweet spot for reliable cycling of slide/accuracy and minimal/no leading. :D

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