MBC Price Increases - Don't Order Anything Until Tonight


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MissouriBullet
May 17, 2010, 03:45 PM
The price increases are happening now, maybe 50% complete now. When they are complete and uniform I will modify the THR discount to represent a temporary 10% discount for the rest of the month for you guys. If you use the discount code before the increases are complete, you're throwing away 5%.

I'll post here in this thread when complete.

Thanks!

Brad

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NOLAEMT
May 17, 2010, 03:50 PM
Seriously.... You're too nice.

In case no one told you, the purpose of a business is to make money, if you give away everything you're defeating the purpose.

But seriously.. thank you!

MissouriBullet
May 17, 2010, 03:51 PM
If you don't take care of your customers, they won't take care of you. It'll all work out in the long term.

Claude Clay
May 17, 2010, 03:58 PM
Brad has the business model pretty down right--

he is pleasent to talk with and his product is very good value vs price and shipped fast.

by the way, Brad, still a extra discount for orders of +15,000 (assorted)?
i'm near to being in need again.

Sapper771
May 17, 2010, 04:12 PM
I placed an order last night and tried to use the 5% discount code, but it kept saying that it was not recognized.

Roccobro
May 17, 2010, 08:33 PM
If you use the discount code before the increases are complete, you're throwing away 5%.

Justin

jjohnson
May 17, 2010, 10:02 PM
Okay........ we'll patiently wait in line here to grab that discount...... time to re-order, boys!

Dang......... is this guy good to his customers, or what? The only person I know who doesn't like MBC is my mail man............ :p

GaryL
May 17, 2010, 10:42 PM
Already? Where did all that lead go?

MissouriBullet
May 17, 2010, 10:45 PM
The price increases are done, I think. As a reminder, the discount code is THR-Original exactly as you see it. I didn't add quotes because sometimes that confuses some folks :-)

10% for the rest of the month, and thank you guys. You're the best.

Brad

Roccobro
May 17, 2010, 10:51 PM
10% for the rest of the month, and thank you guys. You're the best.


We're rubber and your glue... :neener:

Justin

UniversalFrost
May 18, 2010, 12:58 AM
thanks for posting this. I was getting ready to order some 38 super and 40 bullets.

will wait a day or so to order then.

bds
May 18, 2010, 01:53 AM
Brad, awesome thing you are doing for THR members. :D

To show my appreciation, on my next order I will place the order without the discount code.

Thanks again for what you do!

Tim the student
May 18, 2010, 02:08 AM
Thanks, we all appreciate it.

cray2751
May 18, 2010, 07:54 AM
Hey Brad,
What made the price go up so much? Is something up with lead? Not complaining but after the 10% discount this month 1k of 230 grn 45 is only 10 to 15 bucks less than plated or fmj.


I just wish I would have bought more.

MissouriBullet
May 18, 2010, 08:39 AM
Hey Brad,
What made the price go up so much? Is something up with lead? Not complaining but after the 10% discount this month 1k of 230 grn 45 is only 10 to 15 bucks less than plated or fmj.


I just wish I would have bought more.
Yes, something's up with lead - the price! The last two 22 ton truckloads we bought came in at $.32/lb. more than what our contract price was for all last year. That works out to about $8.00 per thousand bullets (at 200 grains per bullet, average) in added cost. We absorbed the differential for as long as we could, working through the first higher-price truckload and then halfway through the last one, and decided that eating $14,080 per truckload of lead was not reflective of a firm grip on sanity. Hence, the pass-through. We're not profiteering, just trying to maintain a reasonable margin and stay in business.

We last raised prices in January of 2008, so this one was a long time coming.

Brad

cray2751
May 18, 2010, 08:56 AM
That's crazy that lead went up that much. Thanks for breaking it down. I wish I would have bought more. The 10% will help if I can come up with some money for some boolits. I have already spent my month gun allowance this month.

MissouriBullet
May 18, 2010, 09:16 AM
The lead market is craziness personified. In the past two years, the spot price has ranged from $.50/lb. to about $2.30/lb. Many casters who didn't have a sufficient supply on hand to weather the extreme high prices went under. We were fortunate to be able to grab a contract for 5 truckloads at a good price last year and actually got one or two more (forget which) at only a little bit higher price than the contract. When that supply ran out we were at the mercy of the market, hence the need to raise our prices.

When lead drops, our prices will, too.

cray2751
May 18, 2010, 09:52 AM
Its good to know that if it goes down prices will go down to. That's a sign of a good business. Just curious how long does it take to go through a truck load?

Quoheleth
May 18, 2010, 10:01 AM
1k of 230 grn 45 is only 10 to 15 bucks less than plated or fmj.

Huh? I think you had better check your math, amigo. Using Midway as my sample (I realize others may have specials, but remember: lead's price affects every bullet mfg. If Brad had to go up [finally], others have had to as well] you see the following prices based on a lot of 500:

Rainer plated, 230gr .452 from Midway: $79/500 [BACKORDER]
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=1050144214

Hornady 230gr .451 XTP from Midway: $19.79/100
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=342056

Winchester 230gr FMJ from Midway: $89.99/500 from Midway [BACKORDER]
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1390127870

Missouri Bullet 235gr LRN: $43/500 SHIPS YESTERDAY (it seems)
http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=59&category=5&secondary=13&keywords=

Worst case scenario, you save $30 over Rainer; best case you save over half vs. Hornady.

Q

cray2751
May 18, 2010, 10:32 AM
No the numbers are right. Buying lead still saves but there are a lot of dealers that carry fmj for a great price. I don't buy bullets from Midway and Hornady cost to much. I wasn't downing MBC I have bought my fair share of bullets from them I was just curious.

MissouriBullet
May 18, 2010, 10:52 AM
At current production rates, we do a truckload every 5-6 weeks. But that only of one type of alloy, and we have 2 stock alloy mixtures - one is 2/6 and the other is 1.33/4 (sB and sN, respectively, balance lead.)

It seems like we use 3 units of the 2/6 for every 2 of the 1.33/4. So that complicates the logistics train a bit but it's manageable.

cray2751
May 18, 2010, 11:13 AM
WOW that's a lot of lead. I like to watch the cam you have set up in the shop. I also hope you didn't think I was trying to bad mouth MBC for the price increase. I totally agree you have to cover you cost. Just curious to what the increases were.

longdayjake
May 18, 2010, 11:18 AM
Brad,

As you know I am looking into the manufacturing world as well. Because of that I have been watching the lead market for quite some time now and at the moment the market says its at about 85 cents per lb. Are you getting it for 32 cents a lb because it has other alloys mixed in the lead?

ReloaderFred
May 18, 2010, 12:26 PM
He isn't getting it for 32 cents a pound. The current cost is 32 cents a pound MORE than his last contract was for.

The tin and antimony prices are added to the lead prices, so the spot price isn't indicative of the alloy price, other than to drive it up or down on a percentage basis.

Hope this helps.

Fred

longdayjake
May 18, 2010, 12:39 PM
Oh. It pays to read more carefully. Thanks!

Rollis R. Karvellis
May 18, 2010, 12:55 PM
Something else to add to the price is the cost of fuel, and energy, also adds to the price. Missori is not to bad about there fuel, but I, would hate to see the electric bill at the end of the month.

MissouriBullet
May 18, 2010, 01:52 PM
Tin is ~ $17,600/metric ton on the LME today. . That's around $8.00 per pound. A 2/6 alloy means 6x$8.00 per hundred pounds of alloy. Antimony is maybe $10.00 per pound. Remember, these are LME prices per hundred ton lots, not the price you're going to find at your local foundry. So, tin + lead per hundred weight of alloy is around $70.00. And there is the 94% of the alloy which is lead, spot price of $.86/pound (try buying it for that price.) So now, you're nearly $150.00 per hundred pound unit.

Those are LME prices for international buyers purchasing shiploads and many truckloads at a time in raw material form. The foundry has a huge physical infrastructure, big payroll. lawyers to handle EPA and their local bureaucratic regulators, a laboratory to certify their output, a quite considerable light bill (how many kW does it take to melt a 22-ton vat of lead?) Then once they have your order alloyed, they have to ship it. How much is the diesel fuel required to run a semi with a 58-foot trailer that's carrying 44,000 pounds of lead 800 miles? How much do you have to pay the driver? The foundries have lead on hand that they previously bought and had shipped to them and that price isn't what the LME quotes, either. So this is a very dynamic deal - there is a lot of calculus in it.

But somehow, we're buying our alloy for less than 3 grand a ton. I don't know how they can do it, frankly, but I am grateful.

So that is my assuredly non-professional take on how this lead thing works. We could run our own smelter as others do, but that is another full-time occupation in which I am not interested. I'd rather order foundry lead, at a fixed price, and get the certification sheet with every load that shows it was alloyed to my specification.

Brad

Rollis R. Karvellis
May 18, 2010, 06:40 PM
Depinding on the size of the engien, and the type of body style of the truck, anywhere from 5 to 7 mile a gallon.

Jeff H
May 18, 2010, 06:55 PM
I work in the steel industry so you don't need to explain the obnoxious cost of metals to me, but the one thing that does piss me off is that the steel mills are still only running at about 80% capacity for the plants that they didn't shut down during the recession, and instead of increasing production now that demand is creeping up, they are keeping production levels stagnant and drying up the supply to drive prices even higher. I'm sure the lead market is similar, and somehow they successfully blame it on the Chinese for buying all our scrap.......

UniversalFrost
May 18, 2010, 07:55 PM
ok, reminds me of my days working in an aluminum extrusion plant for alcoa. and my later days of working in a machine shop and having to deal with the varying market prices on our orders of aluminum, copper, brass, steel and even iron.

anyway, gonna place my order for 38 super and 40 cal bullets.


JOE

GaryL
May 18, 2010, 07:58 PM
Jeff H,

In uncertain times, economic and especially politically, companies are very reluctant to expand production or take on new employees. As you're probably aware, unemployment costs have to be absorbed while demand and sales are decreasing. I don't want to turn this into a political thread, but most companies are waiting to see how the health care legislation is going to affect them. Until things stabilize, don't expect much improvement.

cray2751
May 18, 2010, 08:14 PM
I thought I was done with Eco for this semester haha. As a business major its always interesting for me to hear the reasons for cost increases. You think reloaders don't like a necessary price increase? Try explaining that to painters, I work at Sherwin Williams and we had a price increase with no exceptions and no rollbacks. Its been fun to explain the cost of resins, pigments, solvents, titanium. dioxide, and binders to say the least.

rjbishop
May 26, 2010, 11:32 PM
Brad, I think you've done a great job holding the line the past two years- you've got great business smarts.

I noticed you don't list alloy for sale any longer- have you discontinued that product line?

MissouriBullet
May 27, 2010, 09:48 AM
We are almost of our that batch of alloy, rj, so we took it off the site. What we're using now comes in 56-58 lb. pigs that we can put directly into the pots. This saves on operator time. We can sell this alloy, whacked into two chunks, but it wouldn't fit most casters' melting pots, as they are large. But is that caster is a crafty fellow who owns a Sawzall with a destructor blade, it wouldn't be a problem at all.

So we'll still have casting alloy available in a different form. I haven't had Jo Ann re-tool the website offering yet because it will take some time to write up the explanation of the fact that there are huge chunks of lead that will require cutting.

Brad

Jech
May 27, 2010, 10:02 AM
Yet another praise report for MBC's amazingly fast order process...I placed my first order of 1,500 bullets on Friday night at 7:30pm, they shipped 6:30am Saturday morning and arrived on my doorstep on Monday before I could even eat lunch! The USPS box was expectedly beat up a bit from the weight but the inner boxes were immaculate.

BTW Brad, I've been telling all my shooting friends about your company, the business ethics you have demonstrated on these forums is most impressive.

Tim the student
May 29, 2010, 10:41 AM
Thanks Brad, just placed an order.

MissouriBullet
May 29, 2010, 12:41 PM
Thank you, Tim, and I just shipped it.

ljnowell
May 29, 2010, 02:12 PM
Thank you, Tim, and I just shipped it.

Two hours to the minute? Thats got to be a record. Too bad some of the other lead bullet vendors dont pay attention to what you guys do.

Tim the student
May 30, 2010, 03:49 AM
Two hours to the minute? Thats got to be a record.

No joke. That is crazy fast. It was a bit more than 2 hours though - I did get a glass of water between the time I placed my order and posted that. Maybe it was 2:01-2.

Thanks Brad, I'm happy to buy your bullets with the service you provide.

MissouriBullet
May 30, 2010, 07:06 AM
No joke. That is crazy fast. It was a bit more than 2 hours though - I did get a glass of water between the time I placed my order and posted that. Maybe it was 2:01-2.

Thanks Brad, I'm happy to buy your bullets with the service you provide.
We would have had them out quicker, but we had to make them first.

Quoheleth
May 30, 2010, 04:00 PM
Those bullets are so fresh I bet they're still warm when they arrive at your house, Tim!

Q

Rush_Fan
May 30, 2010, 04:10 PM
Brad, I am a happy returning customer and I just ordered 2000 .38 Spl. SWC bullets. Thanks for the great prices. "Look away, look away, look away Dixie-land." ;)

MissouriBullet
May 30, 2010, 06:26 PM
Brad, I am a happy returning customer and I just ordered 2000 .38 Spl. SWC bullets. Thanks for the great prices. "Look away, look away, look away Dixie-land." ;)
Heh-heh :-)

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