30-06 reloads hard to chamber


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Randy1911
May 20, 2010, 06:27 PM
I have just begun to start reloading for the '06. The rifle is a Rem. 700 ADL. The OAL of the loaded bullet is well under the max. The bullet is not touching the rifleing. Even a resized empty case is hard to close the bolt on. I have Hornady Custom Grade New Diamention dies. They are set so the sizer die hits the shellplate plus 1/4 turn. The brass is once-fired military mixed headstamped. It chambers factory ammo just fine.

I called Hornady today and all they could suggest was to send the die in and they would take a few thousandth off the bottom of the die. Any other suggestions?:confused:

EDIT: The bolt will close all the way, it is just hard to push down and lock.

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rbernie
May 20, 2010, 06:34 PM
I will assume that factory loads chamber just fine. is that correct?

If so, have you checked to make sure that the brass is trimmed? If the brass itself is too long, it will have chambering issues.

If that's not it, you likely have a tight chamber. I had a Browning like that, and I had to use small-base dies to get reliable chambering from my handloads.

243winxb
May 20, 2010, 06:44 PM
Could be the shellplate it to thick. Take measurements, it should measure the same as a shell holder. .125" http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/IMG_2905DILL1.jpg Measure like this.

Randy1911
May 20, 2010, 06:45 PM
I will assume that factory loads chamber just fine. is that correct?

If so, have you checked to make sure that the brass is trimmed? If the brass itself is too long, it will have chambering issues.


The factory ammo is no problem. I have trimmed all the brass to 2.484 which is the recommended "trim to length".

243winxb
May 20, 2010, 06:57 PM
Make sure your not bulging the neck or shoulder area of the brass when/if crimping when seating the bullet. The brass is once-fired military mixed headstamped. The web area may be expanded to much from being fired in the other rifle. Your rifle may have a tighter chamber. Dies do not size all the way to the extractor groove. Fire factory ammo, resize it, will it chamber?

Randy1911
May 20, 2010, 07:07 PM
Make sure you not bulging the neck or shoulder area of the brass when/if crimping when seating the bullet

The bullet has a crimp cannalure with a very light crimp. There was no bulge of any kind I could see or feel.

243winxb
May 20, 2010, 07:13 PM
EDIT: The bolt will close all the way, it is just hard to push down and lock. On firing the military brass will expand to your chamber, it may fix you problem. Put some lube on the bolt lugs and shoot them is what i would do. See if they size better after firing. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/bolts.jpg

Randy1911
May 20, 2010, 07:20 PM
243 winxb

I use a light coating of RemOil on the lugs. Will that do?

On firing the military brass will expand to your chamber, it may fix you problem

How do you get the bolt closed the first time? It is very hard to close the bolt completely.

243winxb
May 20, 2010, 07:28 PM
I use a light coating of RemOil on the lugs. Will that do? Yes. How do you get the bolt closed the first time? It is very hard to close the bolt completely. You have to use your judgement here, if its way hard, then dont force it.

rondog
May 20, 2010, 08:14 PM
Possibly not full-length resizing them enough? Got a headspace gauge?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/Lyman30-06casegauge.jpg

Randy1911
May 20, 2010, 08:31 PM
Possibly not full-length resizing them enough? Got a headspace gauge?

Not yet. I was planning on getting one this weekend at the gunshow. The problem is if they won't gage, what's wrong.

243winxb
May 20, 2010, 08:58 PM
if they won't gage, what's wrong. The gage checks only 2 things. 1. Head to shoulder/datum line measurement. This tells you how much the shoulder is being pushed back. To much or to little. 2. Trim length. Good reading here> http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11470/guntechdetail/Gauging_Success___Minimum_Headspace_and_Maximum_COL

ranger335v
May 20, 2010, 09:22 PM
Turn the sizer die down another 1/16 of a turn, that's about .0045".

ol' scratch
May 20, 2010, 09:24 PM
You need to get a head space cartridge gage. I had the same problem with my 1903. I couldn't close the bolt on my reloads. It wasn't until I got a gage and checked the cartridge that I found my dies needed to be adjusted. I am using the same set of dies as you. Let me guess-you are using a Lee Single Stage Press. Even after adjusting the die like Hornady recommended, I couldn't get the case to size correctly. Then I started noticing the shell holder was moving just a little bit-throwing off my sizing. I cranked the die down until the resized cartrige fit in the gage. I have no more problems and all my reloads chamber like factory. :)

SlamFire1
May 20, 2010, 09:53 PM
The gage checks only 2 things. 1. Head to shoulder/datum line measurement. This tells you how much the shoulder is being pushed back. To much or to little. 2. Trim length. Good reading here> http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...nd_Maximum_COL

Ah yes, but this is very important information to know. Without it he won't know how much he is sizing the case. Without measurements all we are doing is philosophizing.

if they won't gage, what's wrong.

If the sized cases are too long, then you will need to increase the amount you are sizing them. If your die is already touching the shell holder, then material will need to be removed from the bottom of the die.

Randy1911
May 20, 2010, 10:23 PM
Let me guess-you are using a Lee Single Stage

I am loading on a Hornady Lock-N-Load AP progressive.


If your die is already touching the shell holder, then material will need to be removed from the bottom of the die.


This is what Hornady told me if I couldn't get it to work. They said they could do it for me.

I went to a reloading supplies house tonight and bought some new factory Wichester brass to see if that makes a difference. I'll report back later.

USSR
May 20, 2010, 11:10 PM
Ahhh, 243winxb, Winnie bolts. drool.

Don

Randy1911
May 21, 2010, 12:34 AM
I just loaded 50 rounds of new Winchester brass. I ran them thur my sizer die to make sure they were round. They measured 2.485. They all chambered just like the factory rounds. Tomorrow I will go and shoot them and see how they reload after firing.

Could it be that the military brass is "springing back" after resizing? That is the only thing I can think of. I will try the local gun shops and see if they have a case gage.

jeepmor
May 21, 2010, 01:33 AM
This sounds like a clear case of the case neck/shoulder not being pushed back far enough to me.

I've had this issue and I bring my rifle of concern to my bench when I first set the dies to be sure an empty case properly loads without having to wrench the bolt down. Then I proceed as usual.

Measuring case length is no help when the shoulder is still proud and seating before anything else.

Hope this helps,

jeepmor

The Bushmaster
May 21, 2010, 11:23 AM
Case length too long or the shoulder needs to be set back a bit...

Clark
May 21, 2010, 11:52 AM
I have a friend who just bought a new Howa 223 varminter that will not chamber some new brass.
The new brass out of the bag must be measured with a micrometer to see if the base is less than .375".
It would seem that the factory got their reamer sharpened but the new guy, and it is .002" too small.

What does it all mean?
Usually things are my fault, but sometimes not.

USSR
May 21, 2010, 01:03 PM
Could it be that the military brass is "springing back" after resizing? That is the only thing I can think of. I will try the local gun shops and see if they have a case gage.

No doubt, that is what is happening. Do yourself a favor and buy an RCBS Precision Mic gage, so as to be able to properly adjust your FL resizing die. Installing dies by going 1/4 turn past the shellplate or case holder tells you nothing about your resulting case headspace dimensions.

Don

243winxb
May 21, 2010, 03:52 PM
If your Hornady Lock-N-Load AP progressive is like my old Dillon, try this. Turn the bold in the center of the shell plate down/in till plate can not rotate. Now , back bolt out just enough for plate to turn. This will give you minimum clearance between the rams platform and the shell plate. Hopefully this will let you push the brass shoulder back a tiny bit more when full length resizing. Maybe read the instructions again or ask Walkalong :D http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/manuals-current/metalic-reloading/LNL_AP.pdf :)

Randy1911
May 21, 2010, 05:44 PM
I got a case gage today. All the shells that won't chamber fit the gage perfectly. Now what? Like I said earlier, factory ammo is fine.

243winxb
May 21, 2010, 06:00 PM
You could measure the military brass against the maximum cartridge drawing dimensions posted here. http://www.stevespages.com/page8d.htm Do your test with the new brass, load, fire, resize, see what happens.

SlamFire1
May 21, 2010, 07:07 PM
I got a case gage today. All the shells that won't chamber fit the gage perfectly. Now what? Like I said earlier, factory ammo is fine.



Well now you have more work to do. Somewhere you have an interference fit.

Try

1) Size a case to gage minimum and see if that chambers without a bullet. If it does, something is wrong with seating depth or the case neck is too thick.

2) Borrow a small base die and see if that allows your ammunition to chamber easily.

R.Clem
May 21, 2010, 07:50 PM
I am assuming the mil. brass wasn't fired in your rifle otherwise it would chamber. Get a small base sizer die and resize all cases that were not fired in your rifle with it. These dies are the exact minimum of what ever caliber they are for.
Some years back I acquired 1500 rounds of 308 mil. match brass, had the same problem you are having. I spent the $$ and got a small base sizer die and ran all brass that wasn't fired in my rifle threw it. No more problem. Pick up any and all brass for your '06 with the confidence that you will be able to resize, load and shoot it.

Ray

Randy1911
May 21, 2010, 09:48 PM
I took my shellholder for my single stage press and filed it down and took about .005" off the top so I could run the sizer die down a little more. My reloads will now chamber easily the way factory ammo does. The shell now goes just a hair below Minimum on the case gage. Will this hurt anything?

243winxb
May 22, 2010, 08:51 AM
The shell now goes just a hair below Minimum on the case gage. Will this hurt anything? You may be OK, but the only way to know for sure is take an accurate measurement. See info in the link. Cartridge headspace as it fits the chamber should not be more than .010" IMO. If the shoulder is pushed back to much, you get case separations like you see here. Photos > http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=523746 This is a case head separation. >> http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_reloading_2.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/reloading_2.jpg)

blackwalnut
May 23, 2010, 02:19 AM
Hey Randy Dont force those shells into your rifle. Everyone is making this too complicated. You did not mention if you are using once fired brass from another rifle. As you know brass expands upon firing to fit the chamber of the rifle and then springs back slightly but never to its original size. It has a memory. If you resize brass that was fired in another rifle that resized brass also wants to spring back slightly after resizing and consequently may not fit your chamber. Your Remington and the other rifle may be the same caliber but were cut with different reamers in various stages of wear. Too many variables. Sometimes military brass will give you a headache even if fired in your own rifle. It known to be made thicker and may have a stronger memory. After all its not made to be reloaded its made to durable for use in all types of military weapons such as machine guns. It has to stand up to heat, vibration, and rough handling and whatever else warfare can dish out. Keep it simple I think the reasons is what I stated. Get some commercial brass. Midway, Natchez and Mid south all sell brass.

PS : Most die makers dont recommend small base dies for rifles other than the semi-autos. SB dies work the brass more and you have to be careful about it for service rifles. Remember keep it simple. You dont need headaches from head seperation.

Sunray
May 23, 2010, 02:28 AM
"...once-fired military mixed headstamped..." Did you full length resize 'em? Any once fired brass requires it. Check the lengths too.
Milsurp .30-06 is a bit thicker than commercial brass too. You must reduce the powder charge by 10%. That has nothing to do with chambering though.
Mind you, good commercial .30-06 brass isn't scarce or expensive. Wouldn't bother with milsurp brass myself.

Kraylon
May 23, 2010, 01:30 PM
my dad hard your same issue with a 700 adl and he took it to a gun smith and they found that the action was a little under sized my dad had the gun smith open it up a very smalll amount and it now takes ammo just fine with out any issues.

i didnt read the whole 2 pages of this thread.

Innovative
May 23, 2010, 02:06 PM
This is what I use to measure the clearance that MY handloads have in MY particular chamber. Your fired cases are like a casting of your chamber, and comparing your handloads to a fired case displays the actual chamber clearance at the shoulder. Very quick and easy to use, it works on ALL calibers and you'll never see another headspace separation. It shows exactly how to set your die height for resizing and for bullet seating.

http://www.larrywillis.com/COAD-06SM.jpg

Our (patented) Digital Headspace Gauge is now being used by over 700 shooters. Check it out on my website.

- Innovative Technologies

Randy1911
May 23, 2010, 05:31 PM
I took one of the factory shells that chamber okay. I put it in the case gage and it went a few thousandths below flush. By filing a few thousandths off the top of the shellholder so my die will screw down a little farther. My reloads now gage like the factory and chamber with no problem. I guess I just have a tight chamber.:cuss:

Innovative
May 23, 2010, 06:39 PM
Randy1911 .....

How do you know how factory ammo fits in YOUR particular chamber. If you could measure your chamber and compare your handloads to that, you could make "perfect" fitting loads for your particular chamber.

Factory made ammo is only concerned with one firing. If your shoulder is pushed back too far, your handloads will chamber . . . . but exactly how far will your cases stretch each time they're fired? That stretch is what causes all case head separations.

Factory ammo needs to fit in the tightest chamber anywhere (in a particular caliber). Handloaders have a real advantage over the ammo factories when they know the exact size of "their" particular chamber.

- Innovative

Randy1911
May 24, 2010, 12:32 AM
I took one of the factory shells that chamber okay. I put it in the case gage and it went a few thousandths below flush. By filing a few thousandths off the top of the shellholder so my die will screw down a little farther. My reloads now gage like the factory and chamber with no problem. I guess I just have a tight chamber.


Inovative: Like I said above, I compared the factory ammo to the way it gaged and made my reloads the same. I will only neck size the brass after firing so they will be a good fit in the chamber.

Innovative
May 24, 2010, 08:43 AM
Randy .....

You didn't understand my last post. I know that factory loads appear to fit fine in your rifle. However, careful handloaders have a huge advantage over the ammo factories. You can measure the actual chamber clearance (at the shoulder) that any load will have in YOUR particular chamber. That's the main reason why precision handloads can be more accurate than factory ammo.

Factory ammo is only concerned with one firing. Your handloads are fired over and over. If your shoulder is pushed back too far (like factory loads), your handloads will chamber . . . . but exactly how far will your cases stretch each time they're fired? That stretch is what eventually causes case head separations.

Factory ammo needs to fit in the tightest chamber anywhere, so they are intentionally made undersized. Like I said, handloaders have a real advantage over the ammo factories when they know the exact size of "their" particular chamber and their loads. Factory ammo is almost always going to be quite undersized. It will always chamber . . . . but it's rarely a good fit.

- Innovative

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