Quick .40 subcompact question.


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DasFriek
May 21, 2010, 12:44 AM
I have another thread hear on the .45/10mm and i have that idea under control now. But i decided to include the .40 to expand my choices.
I have these options:

G27 $499 Gen 3 id bet.
SA XD SC .40 $399
S&W M&P C .40 $499 with $50 MIR
Sig 250 SC .40 $519

Im buying either a .40 or .45 tomorrow and would like a plan before i go in the store and look like a fool staring at the wall because i cant decide.
So pls pick one of the .40's above to make my decision easier.

I ruled out Kahr CW/PM series here as i have the CW45 on my .45 list.

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t george
May 21, 2010, 01:05 AM
xd... but you can never know until you have held all the potential canidates... we look at the wall for a long time you wont look like a fool.

gofastman
May 21, 2010, 01:12 AM
GLOCK... but you can never know until you have held all the potential canidates... we look at the wall for a long time you wont look like a fool.

Fixed.

t george
May 21, 2010, 01:17 AM
well I have shot and like both, but dont think there is a hunderd dollar diffrence really...

t george
May 21, 2010, 01:22 AM
though I have not read the 45/10mm thread (this may have been covered) I would just get a glock 30 SF... dont have mine yet, but soon

Skylerbone
May 21, 2010, 01:27 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=121558&d=1274415583

M&P, without a doubt. No issues, light recoil, ergonomic, accurate, reliable. Skip the rebate $$$ and opt for the 2 extra magazines. Got mine in the mail today.

wrs840
May 21, 2010, 01:32 AM
Just buy the one that gives you the fuzzies when you hold it.

It's not like it will be the last handgun you'll ever buy.

Les

DasFriek
May 21, 2010, 01:36 AM
Here is the .45/10mm thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=523802
I prefer to keep the 2 separate as i see them both as separate animals. But since im limited in choice by my local shops of what .45/10mm are in stock i decided to include sub compact .40's into the equation. PLS keep any .45/10mm comments there so this thread keeps its reason for 2 threads.

Ive done a search and it seems the XD SC and the G27 are a toss up.
I think i have ruled the S&W and Sig out.

Shooting wise the XD and Glock may seem to shoot the same but i can see where the some of the extra cost comes from. The hexagon barrel is one. But yeh its just the way things are.

OK S&W back on the list, I can always use a spare mag as i keep one on me when i carry.

bigfatdave
May 21, 2010, 04:52 AM
If you want small and light, the Walther PPS comes in the fo-tay chambering.
That gun is light enough I've forgotten I had it on and received strange looks while getting the mail.

uspJ
May 21, 2010, 05:11 AM
out of the choices you listed along with the prices you listed the xd hands down. i like them just as much as glocks and they're just as good (if not better )as anything you listed. sa has got a lifetime warranty although you'll probably never need it on an xd they are rugged dependable guns.

NWCP
May 21, 2010, 05:49 AM
Try an HK P2000SK in .40. It's worth the money if you're serious about carrying.

DasFriek
May 21, 2010, 10:34 AM
The Walther PPS is out of my budget, Its usually $650 new locally.
Ive owned a PPS9 which i sold to my mom for $400 and im still kicking myself on that one.

HKp2KSK is way above my budget for a part time gun, This is just mainly to use for summer carry since my full sized 1911 is a bit much in hot weather.

So far i the .40 offerings i like the XD offering, Now its gotta compete against the .45 offerings in my other thread.
Thanks for the answers and ill post back what i buy later today.

71Commander
May 21, 2010, 10:53 AM
1- m&p
2- xd
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
499- glock

gatorjames85
May 21, 2010, 12:48 PM
would like a plan before i go in the store and look like a fool staring at the wall because i cant decide.

Those should all be reliable guns; handle all of them and pick what feels best in your hand.

cwbjaxfl
May 21, 2010, 12:59 PM
71Commander..... i like your answer

DasFriek
May 21, 2010, 01:29 PM
Those should all be reliable guns; handle all of them and pick what feels best in your hand.
Definitely my plan, I have one salesman who i always ask for specifically in this ULTRA busy shop as he has patience and thinks like i do.
He wouldn't mind setting 5 guns in front of me so i could compare them all side by side.

I like the XD over the Glock in the .40 especially due to price.
I am half tempted to make a $600 offer if they have a PM40 in stock due to its super small size. But for $200 over the XD it better be ALOT smaller.

Im in no way saying im buying a .40
I linked my other thread as my main and first choice is a .45/10mm but i threw the .40 in to the mix as if smaller and lighter is my main goal i may have to sacrifice caliber a bit.
But lets pls not discuss the .45/10mm here or compare it to the .40 i know all i need to know to make an informed choice in caliber, Its the guns i don't have the info on.

hammerklavier
May 21, 2010, 06:54 PM
I haven't fired all three (glock, xd, s&w), yet, but have handled all three on multiple occasions. The S&W definitely feels the best in my hand by far. XD doesn't feel bad, but is a little top heavy. Glock feels awful in the hand.

No way around it, you've got to at least handle each one, if not fire it.

chicharrones
May 21, 2010, 10:19 PM
Those should all be reliable guns; handle all of them and pick what feels best in your hand.

+1 again, but I got my three cents . . .

I've fired the subcompact XD, M&P, and the Glock. For my personal preferences, which are looks, function, feel, blah, blah, blah, I like the Glock and XD the best in a virtual tie.

Even though the M&P is a sweet shooter, I just psychologically can't get past a trigger with two hinges :D , and needing to push that internal lever* for field stripping. :evil:

*Please, someone tell me why that lever is in there?

basicblur
May 21, 2010, 10:54 PM
As an XDSC owner I'll toss my 2 cents in?

1. As others have stated, handle 'em-the Glock grip angle never worked for me (it may for you).
2. One in the plus column (for me) was the XD grip safety-an extra measure of safety when reholstering (and ?), but passive so you never have to worry 'bout thumbing a safety off etc (not that 1911 style safeties ever bothered me).
3. You sound like you've decided on the 40, but why not the 9? I orignally carried an early XDSC40, but when the 9mm magazines were redesigned for more capacity, I switched to an XDSC9 (caliber vs. capacity carries weight in most of my choices). When I bought my 40, the 9mm would only hold 1 more round-after mag redesign, 9mm holds 4 rounds more than the 40.
4. I thought the XDSC40 had a bit of muzzle flip-the recoil didn't bother me, but with less muzzle flip the 9 may be faster for double taps etc?
5. I have tended to move down in caliber as SD ammo has improved over the years-I CC a 40 and 357 SIG, but mainly a 9mm.
6. If you do decide (or this may make a difference when handling at the shop) on an XDSC, if the dangling pinky bothers you (it drives me nuts) see if you can't handle one with a Pearce Grip Extension (http://www.pearcegrip.com/springxd.htm). I have one on both of mine and it goes from dangling pinkly to really feeling like it's "locked in" to your grip.

DasFriek
May 22, 2010, 12:09 AM
Well the gun is purchased, taken down and inspected and cleaned.
What i buy? The XDSC .40 after looking at about 6 or more guns in hand.

At this point i think its ok to discuss the .45 option from my other thread since i did choose a .40 over it. But that was due to costs and convenience more than anything.
The were sold out of the Glock 30 but had a G36 and to be honest it didn't seem thin enough to justify just 6 rounds.
The G27 felt ok, And a price of $499 wasn't bad.
The Kahr CW 45 felt thin but it also felt too long in the grip, Which imo is the worst place hide on a ccw.
They had a Used SW99 SC .40 which i thought was an awesome gun and it looked unfired. But i have reservations about buying a gun no longer in production.
I looked at a well broken in used Kahr PM9 but was over priced at $629.
Next was the Sig 250 SC .40 and it looked like a train wreck from behind where the half exposed hammer is. But the main issue was it just felt like it was bloated and fat.
I also looked at the M&P C .40 and it felt too large over all and just kinda weird.
It came down to the XD and the Smith 99 and i felt the XD offered more at a lower price. Then we hit a snag, The one on sale for $399 was sold out and was the "Essentials" package that just had a spare mag and that was it.
But they had the full "Accessory package" deal for $529 and the salesman sold it to me for $429.

I also picked up the Pierce pinky extension and another IWB holster and some SD ammo and target ammo. The extension really does make the gun feel alot better. The shop knows that also as they keep a mag with one installed for people to try when they look at the XD SC line.

Overall im pretty happy. The gun is a little thicker than i prefer, But i gain 3 rounds over any single stack. Id prefer a 10mm or .45 but a .40 is more than adequate and its very easy to find even during the past ammo drought and its relatively cheap and close to 9mm price.
Recoil can not even come close to as bad as my previous PT745 SC .45 i owned, That thing i nick named "MR Blasty" as it felt like a cannon recoil wise when it went off and im no small guy.

I find most of the XD accessories useless except the loading tool. But the bigger spare mag makes it nice. And i may try the OWB holster they include when i can were a jacket.

Sure i want a mouse gun that can hold 9 rounds of .45 but that not gonna happen so my only complaint so far is the gun is a bit thick, But its par for the course of guns of its type.

One last comment, I kinda went in almost set on buying the XD after several reviews i read about how well it shoots and handles and great reliability.

Marshall
May 22, 2010, 12:47 AM
Congrats, enjoy your new XD-40SC! :)

DasFriek
May 22, 2010, 01:49 AM
Im trying to already despite it being 12:45 am as i decided to load the mags and break the springs in and wear it in the holster IWB and see how comfy it is and if i have any concealment issues.
Its alot more comfy than my 1911 worn IWB at 3:30 but the pinky extension can poke out a bit in a tight t-shirt. But ill keep it on until i see it becomes an issue.
It isnt like ill be needing to pull the gun and wish i had a pinky extension. So ill go without it for carry but use it at the range.

chicharrones
May 22, 2010, 10:47 AM
Good purchase! I don't think you'll regret it. :cool:

Even if it becomes a little thick for some CCW days, that XDSC is so versatile you'll be sure to have a use for it.

71Commander
May 22, 2010, 11:30 AM
In this months issue of American Rifleman they compare the XDm 3.8 in 40 to the new XDm in 45. I know the guns are different but what struck my interest is the ammo comparisons. The 40 ammo delivered over 400 ft. lbs. of energy. That stat is a killer for SD.

You made a good choice.

DasFriek
May 22, 2010, 11:32 AM
I don't think i will regret it either.
I wore it for a few hours last night in the same spot i wear my 1911 and i could tell a huge difference in size and weight.
The jury is is still out on the pinky extension as i did find it to stick out about 1" more and extend the hardest part of the gun to hide being the grip.
As stated above i think i will try and use it, But if i find it poking out it has to come off.
The way i see it the extension is a comfort item while shooting and is useless until then.
Conceal-ability is more important as i may never have to ever pull the gun and if i do who gives a crap if my pinky comfortable.
But it does make the gun easier to hold. So i may buy an extra mag just for it and that way i can use it when ever i feel it wont be a liability.

Im being picky there when i say its sticking out, The gun really disappears well on my large frame and feels no thicker than my 1911.
Im heading to the range in an hour as i cant carry it until i put at least 100 rounds threw it and a mag of the carry ammo for reliability reasons. I know its alot less than what most "say" they test for reliability with, But $21 a box SD ammo is no joke to a person on a budget like me.

BTW the carry ammo is Hornady Tap 180gr, I wanted Hornady Critical Defense but none was to be had. Ill keep looking,

71Commander
May 22, 2010, 11:37 AM
I keep the finger extension on my off side/spare mag that I carry on my belt. Reloads are so much easier.

DasFriek
May 22, 2010, 11:43 AM
In this months issue of American Rifleman they compare the XDm 3.8 in 40 to th4e new XDm in 45. I know the guns are different but what struck my interest is the ammo comparisons. The 40 ammo delivered over 400 ft. lbs. of energy. That stat is a killer for SD.

You made a good choice.

Ive not stated this in this thread, But i am a .45 man at heart.
But that doesn't mean its the only effective caliber in my book, Its just a preference.
I feel the 180gr Tap ammo i put in this gun to be 97% as effective as the 230 gr CorBon i use in my 1911. If it ever comes down to me using the weapon, Only a Coroner will be able to you or I if a .45 would have been more effective if at all.
With modern ammo i feel the gap between 9mm and .45 is closing also. In reality there isnt much difference in between the big 3 calibers anymore.
Some just have better attributes in different areas which can make each be just as effective in different ways.

I gotta admit it gonna put a big smile on my face to shoot this SC with some 180gr full power loads. I love recoil at the range as thats why i loved my 10mm and would have most likley bought a G29 had i one been in stock at the store.

Just for my info since im not the most knowledgeable in the .40 caliber area. Whats the best grain size for SD ammo? Is the extra weight of the 180gr worth having the slower speeds, Or is the 165gr better for the penetration?

DasFriek
May 22, 2010, 11:45 AM
I keep the finger extension on my off side/spare mag that I carry on my belt. Reloads are so much easier.
Thats a good plan as i do carry a spare mag.
Do you use the supplied 13 round mag as the spare or did you buy another 9 rounder to carry?
That grip extension looks like it could make hiding the mag a bit harder on the 13 round mag?

71Commander
May 22, 2010, 12:01 PM
When I mentioned the extension, I was referring to shorter mags in general. I have a PM40.:p and a STI Edge.

I had the 40c and had the extensions on all my mags. Easier to hold.

I shoot reloads through my 40's. I use 155 gr GDHP at 1286 chronoed. That's up there with a 357 performance. They thump. I use 180's as well. For factory I use 180 Golden Saber.

Check out Buffalo Bore for SD.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=25

BTW. I have 12 1911's in 45.:)

DasFriek
May 23, 2010, 02:32 PM
Those BB look nice, I know as i looked at Double Taps offerings and wasn't the most impressed with the .40 line there. But maybe i need to go back and compare.

Yesterday i tested the gun a bit to make sure feeding was no issue and shot WWB 165gr and the Hornady Tap 180 gr and i was able to tell no difference in the two recoil wise.
I also picked up some Federal HST grey box 135gr from Walmart for $23 just to try out and to fill up my spare mag with since i shot some of the Hornady.
I do expect so extra snap back with those.

some of those numbers you mentioned seem to be getting close to the 10mm realm of ammo velocity wise. But i wanna be carefull and keep it balanced since this is a SC and recoil is its biggest enemy being so small and light.

I still had no issues handling the gun and its so well balanced get back on target isnt hard at all after recoil. But if i go to far im sure it could be an issue.

71Commander
May 23, 2010, 05:13 PM
My PM40 only weighs 14oz. It can handle anything I can throw together. A friend of mine keeps losing the mag when he shoots it. :p

Skylerbone
May 24, 2010, 12:22 AM
Solid choice, congrats. I would caution against that Hornady Tap for SD. They're meant to penetrate car doors and windshields, not attackers (unless they're trying to run you over).
I picked up some Hornady Critical Defense 165 GR FTX to carry. I had a back and forth discussion about trigger work with another member and how it would look to a jury. It got me wondering how they'd feel about reloaded ammo. Just another little quibble. Remember too, if it came down to questioning a shooting every bit of evidence can be looked at and used against you. That's why I shudder when people talk about double taps and head shots, etc. You shoot till the threat is neutralized. Sometimes a full mag, sometimes one shot. You don't have to kill an attacker to neutralize the threat. It's also easier on the conscience not having to take a life.

Enough buz kill. Enjoy that new pistol and stay safe out there y'all!

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