M1 Garand .308


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ping
May 21, 2010, 06:02 PM
I have an older gentleman at our church that called me and says he has an M1 Garand chambered in .308. He said it was his fathers and he used to shoot in matches. He says it has NM on it in a couple of places. it is super clean from what he says. I have never heard of a Garand in .308 at least one that was not converted. I read something about the navy or some other branches using them. does anyone have any info on this. thanks. This gentlemen is in his 80's so he has had it for a long time. thanks

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Maverick223
May 21, 2010, 06:16 PM
I don't know too much about them, but IIRC Beretta converted them to take M-14 magazines and re-chambered them to .308Win. I am not aware of any that were originally made in 7.62x51/.308 because I believe production ceased prior to the development of the cartridge. No idea as to value, but I don't believe they are particularly sought after. I am sure that someone will chime in before long and have more useful information for you.

:)

jeepguy
May 21, 2010, 06:17 PM
i have heard of them its just a barrel swap. their was also a insert they tried to put in the chamber, it didnt work verry well. but if this one is a nm rifle it would be the rebarreled one. i would check it out & if it looks good i wouldn't have any problem buying a rifle like this, if its for sale. its probably a nice looking & good shooting rifle.

XxWINxX94
May 21, 2010, 06:18 PM
Could be a Navy model?

saturno_v
May 21, 2010, 06:49 PM
Entire generations of Italians soldiers served with Garands in 7,62x51 NATO (me included).
I don't know if they were all rechambering of older rifle or some new Beretta production as well.

SlamFire1
May 21, 2010, 06:54 PM
Could be an Air Force Match rifle.

If this is an original, all matching, US Military rifle team match rifle, it is worth a lot of money.

ping
May 21, 2010, 07:27 PM
I am going to check it out tomorrow. Was just trying to get some info. He is very old and wants to almost give it to me. He does not want his son to sell it to a pawn shop. He is an old marine and i totally understand. Did a little research just a few min ago. looks like there was the mod0 and mod1 stamped on the right. additionally is appears if new barrel it will be 1965 or 1966. it will be interesting. He also has an 1903 A3. It is amazing the old guys that still have these. you just hope they get into good hands. If anyone has more info let me know.

thanks

Maverick223
May 21, 2010, 07:55 PM
Let us know what it turns out to be...with pictures (including the '03).

:)

FlyinBryan
May 21, 2010, 09:15 PM
He is very old and wants to almost give it to me.

well then i would definitly go get it.

let us know how it shoots, but my guess is it is a fantastic rifle. my garands are my favorite rifles.

308 garands are actually quite common, and when barreled for the 308, can be absolute tack drivers.

i have books from scott duff (the worlds leading authority on the m1 garand) and walt kulek (another m1 expert with several good books on the rifle.)

you should consider picking up "the complete m1 assembly guide" by the latter author, as well as the "complete m1 owners guide" by scott duff too.

i have copies of both, autographed by their respective authors. they are very informative, and really quite entertaining reading. walt has a great sense of humor.

Carter
May 21, 2010, 09:49 PM
Springfield had a shortrun m1 garand line that had a .308 model not to far back. Sadly they discontinued it. But most m1's in .308 are navy converted models, smith specials, or what have you. Great rifle to have. Cheaper to shoot than 30-06.

kenno
May 21, 2010, 10:46 PM
Well, in any case I would expect it to go for $1000 for the NM M-1 and $450 for the GI 1903A1 without NM sights and 308 conversion?
I bought my 1st NM Garand for several hundred in the 1960's.
I've had other NM rifles M-14. 1903a3s, good rifles. I think they never should have allowed the M-16 into the NMs

Risky buisness
May 21, 2010, 11:16 PM
With some probibility the rifle you are refering to is a Navy national match rifle, they got on board with the 7.62 51 round pretty early on. As mentioned above Scott Duffs books can acurratly pin point the date and the type of rifle, most of the NM rifles were drawn fron existing inventory to be converted to fire the 7.62 and purpose built just for that. So not finding the serial # of that rifle in the NM nomenclature is not nessasarally a bad indicator, if it's been in a familly for some time then it may be an actuall Navy NM rifle, not some rehash to build $$$ on resale, I got mine from an old Korean vet, who traded me the rifle because it wouldn't chamber 30.06, go figgure

navajo
May 21, 2010, 11:38 PM
If it is a Springfield Armory (gov. not SA International) call the museum with the SN. They can tell you all about it.
Friend of mine picked one up at a flea market. I called the museum, turns out it was mfg. in 1955 as a NM for the Navy and rebarreld to .308 by the Armory for the Navy in 1965.

If yours is a NM most of the parts will have a drawing number some where on the part. Should show some signs of bedding also.

Rshooter
May 22, 2010, 01:21 PM
Keep that gun out of a pawn shop. Great rifles both. :D

ping
May 23, 2010, 06:58 PM
I got some more info on that rifle. I took some pictures. Here is the info. The sn is 5356531. The rear site is a hooded type and has NM on it. Dont see any numbers or anthing. The Op rod that you pull back has "NM" on it. The bolt has "SA" and some other numbers. The stick has the eagle and a "P" with a circle around it. The stock has been poly'd or something as it looks picture perfect. Dont know what that does to value. The blueing and all is like perfect. The barrel on the rigt side as you pull the op rod back has not markings. The elderly gentleman is 79 ex marine and got it from his dad when he died. His dad got it in 1965 not sure how and all but it has not been shot since that time period. i shot it at 100 yards yesterday and it was dead on with 5 shots. much better than my garand with 30-06. I am going back tonight and just buy it. I dont know what it is worth but the poor guy needs the money. The rifle appears to be like brand new. I am going to pay him $900 for it. If it is not worth the money than oh well. He would not sell if he did not believe it was really special etc. Just alot of money but ......
I dont know if it is Navy or not. Dont see an insert or anything.

Maverick223
May 23, 2010, 07:25 PM
I don't believe it is a Beretta conversion, because it doesn't have the M-14 DBM conversion (think all of em' had this performed, but not positive). I don't know what you got, but at the very worst you overpaid a fellow that (by your account) needs the money by a couple hundred...worse things have happened, consider it your good dead for the day. :) That said, I don't believe that is the case. Enjoy your new rifle and take good care of it (I am certain that it meant a great deal to the old gentleman that you speak of, and it is apparent he wanted you to have it for this reason).

:)

ping
May 23, 2010, 08:20 PM
Yeh, Thanks for the info Maverick223. That is what he needed so I just did it. He lives about 2 1/2 south of me and when i got there i could tell why he did not want his son to have it. Not taking care of his father. I know this is not forum stuff but it is sad. anyway thanks for info. Ohhh the 1903 A3 had been sporterized so did not really pay much attention to it. Wish i could find out more on this. Seems to have NM on parts but the barrell - nothing. it is brand new looking. it has not been touched since 1965. shesssh.

Maverick223
May 23, 2010, 08:52 PM
Glad I could be of some tiny bit of assistance. Good deal or not, you can sleep well tonight knowing that you did the right thing (which is far more important than finding a bargain). I am sure someone more knowledgeable than I will come along shortly and be able to tell you more about it.

:)

SlamFire1
May 24, 2010, 10:40 AM
Yeh, Thanks for the info Maverick223. That is what he needed so I just did it. He lives about 2 1/2 south of me and when i got there i could tell why he did not want his son to have it. Not taking care of his father. I know this is not forum stuff but it is sad. anyway thanks for info. Ohhh the 1903 A3 had been sporterized so did not really pay much attention to it. Wish i could find out more on this. Seems to have NM on parts but the barrell - nothing. it is brand new looking. it has not been touched since 1965. shesssh.

Your pictures are out of focus on my screen, so I can tell it is a Garand.

Search the web and find images of NM Garands, this one may have started out as one.

Since the barrel is unmarked, it does not fit into the 308 NM rifles I have examined.

It is likely that this rifle started out as a 30-06 NM. You could buy these at the National Matches as a competitor. When the NM M14's started outclassing M1's, it was common for competitors to rebarrel to 308.

To get a real NM M14 you had to belong to a State Association team. And there were not an unlimited number of NM M14's issued to State Associations. It was not until Springfield Armory of Genesco Ill came out with their M1a's, in the mid 70's, that civilians could get one. Initially the demand was so high there was a two year backlog . Maybe that is what happened to this rifle. Perhaps the original owner shot out the 30-06 barrel, or just wanted a 308 Barrel.

If you had the original NM 30-06 barrel, then you would have something that could be restored and would be worth a couple of grand.

Full Metal Jacket
May 24, 2010, 11:33 AM
you can purchase a chamber insert for any M1Garand that'll allow it to shoot .308 for $5.

Rshooter
May 24, 2010, 11:42 AM
Nice gun and good to see that a member is paying a fair price to an older gentleman. I have seen too many rifles all but stolen from the owner.

rscalzo
May 24, 2010, 01:08 PM
Springfield had a shortrun m1 garand line that had a .308 model not to far back.

Nowhere near as valuable as a original Garand. Springfield used cast receivers build in Brazil I believe. they looked good but certainly not worth the big prices asked.

Even if this rifle is a re-barreled conversion, if the price is right I'd grab it. $900.00 seems more than fair and I have no doubt you are getting a rifle well beyond the standard service grade unit currently available. It would be even better if the seller have some documentation going along with it.

I know how this guy must feel. I have many older residents come into my office when their spouse passed and they wanted to get rid of any firearms in the house. I had contacts they could deal with to sell them because it turned in they could only be destroyed and never sold again. One older guy who I became friendly with after helping his wife who was very ill wanted me to have two of his older handguns. He did not want any money from a dealer sale. What he wanted was to know they would be used and treated properly. I can understand that.

NavyEngineer
May 24, 2010, 04:20 PM
Ping,
I have attached a link from the CMP that you might find interesting. I have a MK2 MOD1 Garand that was awarded as a trophy from one of the Navy's fleet matches in the early 1990s. My understanding is that the Navy modified their M1s to 7.62 NATO when the Army procured M14s. Later some of these rifles were upgraded to National Match configuration and used (and awarded as trophies) during the annual fleet matches. My Navy trophy rifle has a 1965 Springfield Armory barrel and shoots very well. The Navy always lags the other services in small arms procurement - 1911s were still carried by many ships into the late 1990s, and we were directed to turn in most of our M14s in exchange for M16A2s in late 2006!

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/762MM.htm

ping
May 24, 2010, 09:23 PM
I looked over the rifle again tonight and it just appears the barrel just has not markings. It definitely does not have an insert just brand new looking with beautiful blue. It might have been a NM Garand at one time like it was mentioned and just converted later to .308 to keep up with the M14. I will shot it this weekend with some loads i got worked up for my M1A. I checked the loads out on the handloading section with some guys and it looks like i am in the right area of loads. I am like you rscalzo take care of our older veterans. I am in my 50's and was with the 101st Airborne Division and I would have loved to have shot an M1 Garand way back. I hate that many will fall into hands of those that do not appreciate them. I bet there will be a resurgence of them at some point as older veterans die ya know. Thanks to everyone who provided information. I sure hope i did not give to little for the rifle. sounds sort of dumb but you all know what i mean. thanks again. i am off to reload. :)

Jeremy2171
May 24, 2010, 09:28 PM
If the barrel has no markings visible then it's a commercial barrel and not military.

Jeremy2171
May 24, 2010, 09:30 PM
you can purchase a chamber insert for any M1Garand that'll allow it to shoot .308 for $5.
Yes, but the chamber has to be reamed as the .308 is wider at the shoulder than the .30-06 is at the same point on it's body...

Most rifles won't close on a .308 round in a .30cal chamber due to this...

weaponhead
May 25, 2010, 08:03 AM
Where? I've been looking for one.....TIA!

For the record, I tried an insert (from Idaho Surplus???...it was a long time ago) and it worked fine....no reaming requirement.

Trebor
May 25, 2010, 12:16 PM
Are you checking the correct place for barrel markings?

To see the barrel markings you need to pull back the op-rod like when you open the bolt.

With the op-rod open, look in the "channel" in the handguard. The part of the barrel there that is usually concealed by the op rod is where the markings will be.

Look in strong light or, better yet, use a flashlight.

Everything sounds like a Navy Trophy Rifle to me. I bet the barrel will be marked in that spot.

USSR
May 25, 2010, 01:26 PM
For the record, I tried an insert (from Idaho Surplus???...it was a long time ago) and it worked fine....no reaming requirement.

I had just the opposite result - could not get it to work in several .30-06's.

Don

ping
May 26, 2010, 05:58 PM
I looked again as per your suggestion trebor and just nothing there. just smooth. i know where you are talking about. guess it was a commerical barrel put on in 1965. Just a long time ago ya know. shooting it saturday so it should be fun. thanks for all the info. good luck on the inserts. lol.

BruceB
May 27, 2010, 12:48 PM
You done good!

Offered the same rifle for that money, I'd have ripped the butt out of my jeans whipping out my wallet.

MANY prestigious and highly-regarded gunsmiths have rebarreled Garands to 7.62 over the years. The barrels they used will not show the markings we have come to accept as "normal" (for a MILITARY rifle).

The quality of the "build" seems evident. I think that, not only did you buy a truly fine rifle, but you did the right thing by an older gentleman who needed the proceeds from his rifle.

Although I'm "sorta" reluctant to say this, if you're having second thoughts I will gladly pay you the same amount you have in the rifle to get it. That's how strongly I think that you did very well indeed.

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