Reloaded ammo issues with a springfield Xdm 40


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Kraylon
May 23, 2010, 12:13 PM
I was going to buy a springfield Xdm 40 from a buddy of mine and when i went out to shoot it before i brought it I had tried some reloaded ammo in this gun and my ammo would cause a miss feed jam about 90% of the time in this XD, I have used this same batch of reloads in my sig p229 in 40 and it loads and spits them out with out any issues

is there something special that i need to do for a the springfield xd?

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ReloaderFred
May 23, 2010, 12:34 PM
The XD series of handguns have very short leades, and you have to load for them accordingly. I own 6 of them in 9x19, 357 Sig and .45 acp, and all of them have short leades.

I would say your rounds are contacting the rifling at the ogive of the bullet before the slide can fully close, which won't allow the round to chamber all the way. Some bullets have shorter ogives than others, so you have to adjust the seating depth of the bullet according to that factor.

Try some rounds loaded slightly shorter and adjust your load for the shorter OAL and I'm betting your problem will do away.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Kraylon
May 23, 2010, 12:42 PM
the flat point bullets are at 1.119 o.a.l
and the round nose bullets are at 1.158 o.a.l

how much shorter would you suggest??

this same xd shot a box of pmc just fine with out any issues
the pmc bronze bullets are 1.124 o.a.l

i didnt buy the gun yet until i get the reloaded ammo issues figured out so i can really shorten a bullet and see if it works.

im going to call the guy later today and see what ammo he put down range with it.

philbo
May 23, 2010, 01:06 PM
My guess is the XDm's match grade barrel is a lot closer to SAMMI spec than the Sig barrel and that's why you are seeing this problem. Try dropping the rounds in a cartridge gauge and I'll bet you'll discover that the web/case head of the rounds aren't resized all the way and the brass is in fact out of spec... do a search on glocked brass and you'll discover this is a common problem, especially with used 40 S&W brass.

This company http://www.casepro100.com/about%20casepro1new.htm sells a tool especially for this, but I find the Lee Factory Crimp die is good enough for my purposes.

Kraylon
May 23, 2010, 01:17 PM
match grade barrell is that what the "M" stands for?
i have the lee factory crimp die and i used it on all of my reloaded rounds


he says that he has only shot winchester white box though it and it shoots those with out a problem
does any one has the o.a.l of the winchester white box ammo?

Walkalong
May 23, 2010, 02:07 PM
The XD is an excellent platform. You just need to fine tune your reloads a bit. Here is a thread loaded with pics on how to find the max O.A.L. for your barrel (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678) with any given bullet. That may help you get started. Like Fred posted, they have short leades, and he certainly knows.

ReloaderFred
May 23, 2010, 02:18 PM
Kraylon,

I think you're missing the point here. It's not the OAL that's the problem. It's the ogive of the bullet contacting the rifling in the leade of the barrel. Different shaped bullets require different Over All Lengths, because what you're mostly concerned with is the volume of the case, not the length of the loaded round, in most cases.

In this case, with the SD's shorter leade (the portion of the chamber that transitions from the actual chamber to the start of the rifling), the shape of the bullet is determining the depth of the seating. You want to get the bearing surface of the bullet inside the case, where it won't interfere with the rifling when chambered.

Of course, the OAL also comes into play with semi-auto pistols due to the magazine, too. Some chambers will accept "long loaded" bullets, but the magazine won't, but that's not the problem here.

And yes, the "M" stands for Match in the XD-M.

Try this, remove the barrel from the pistol and drop one of your loaded rounds into the chamber and see how far it goes in. Then drop a factory round into the chamber and see how far it goes in. You should be able to see the difference, and it's probably only a couple of thousandths, since you say some of your reloads chambered normally. You can also blacken one of your reloads with a Sharpie and drop it into the chamber and gently push it with your finger and then remove it and see where the blackening is scraped off. This will tell you where the contact points are.

Of course, any time you shorten the OAL of a given load you'll have to adjust the powder charge accordingly.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Kraylon
May 23, 2010, 03:30 PM
Good info I have only loaded for my sigs and they don't seem to be very picky. I'm going to see if I can swap him guns for a little bit to get this figured out.

Five of Clubs
May 23, 2010, 03:52 PM
I'm not sure this is safe or smart (just trying to be honest) but I read a thread on here about how to figure out the max OAL for a particular bullet a while back. I also bought an XD and the .45 ammo I was using in my 1911 would not fully chamber in my XD and would lock the thing up pretty tight. Here is what I read to do and it worked well for me:

Take a fired empty case (not resized) and get a bullet started in it by tapping it in. Once the bullet is partially seated, drop the dud round into the XD chamber and tap the back of the case until the bullet seats far enough for the round to chamber properly. Then, pull the round out and measure the OAL. Your reloads need to be shorter than that (as long as it's safe!).

I then made a few more dummy rounds (resized, but no powder or primer) at the new OAL and made sure they chambered properly. I also chamber-checked about the first 500 loaded rounds I made after doing this and never had any more problems. Good luck.

As mentioned above, watch your powder levels when shortening rounds as pressure will increase.

bds
May 23, 2010, 04:49 PM
Kraylon, plenty of posters and threads here covered the "known" issues of feeding problem with XD40. The rounds need to have the bullet seated deeper to have shorter OAL for proper feeding. The XD forum confirmed that the slide rib does not have an angled rib by the breech end for proper feeding of SWC bullets (It is straight instead of angled like any other pistol).

I couldn't believe this and took apart various caliber XD pistols at the range and the range master even confirmed that XD slide rib will not allow proper feeding of SWC bullets as experienced by XD shooter during various matches.

This is a known issue with XDs. If you want a pistol you can shoot any reloads, you may want to consider a different pistol.

No offense to XD owners. It is an accurate pistol with many feature improvements over the Glock. I think XD45 fullsize still holds the record for the smallest 45 ACP polymer production pistol with a shot group of 3/4 " at 25 yards using 230 gr RN reload (gun magazine article).

ReloaderFred
May 23, 2010, 05:09 PM
He's not trying to load SWC bullets into this particular handgun. He's having an issue with his RNFP and RN bullets that appear to be loaded too long for this chamber.

I think suggesting some other firearm is premature. It just needs to have the reloaded ammunition tailored to it, which is a simple matter of finding the over all length it likes.

I certainly wouldn't try to use gasoline in my diesel truck, and wouldn't sell my truck because it won't run on gasoline, and vice versa. Some firearms perform better with certain ammunition (fuel), and that's the case here. Just find the fuel (ammunition) it likes and go with that.

The XD series of pistols are designed to be Service Pistols, and as such are designed to shoot Service Ammunition. My 6 XD's have never failed to feed, fire and eject the proper ammunition in the many thousands of rounds I've put through them, and another thousand or so my wife has put through the one she "stole" from me. They are extremely accurate and I haven't done a thing to them, except to put night sights on the 357 Sig XD. I've got 1911's that I've put a lot of money into that are much more particular about the kind of ammunition they will feed and fire accurately, but I won't sell any of them, either.

Hope this helps.

Fred

bds
May 23, 2010, 05:16 PM
ReloaderFred, I would agree but the various posts/threads on THR regards to XD feeding issues have been with TCFP 40 S&W bullets, not with SWC. It is a known issue.

The SWC issue was addressed at XD forum and brought over to THR. It is a known issue now too that's been confirmed. Take apart any XD and look at the slide rib - It will be straight at the breech end. Of course, not everyone shoots SWC and is not an issue with most XD shooters.

I think suggesting some other firearm is premature.
I agree, especially if the purchase price is very reasonable because you are still able to reload with shorter OAL to address the known feeding issue problem.

BTW, If I can get 3/4" shot groups at 25 yards, I am changing my match pistol/caliber! :D But only thing is that I would compete with SWC in 45 ACP. :eek: Darn. It is a good pistol and I almost bought the XD45 fullsize (I still may - I have been tempted by that 3/4" group).

Kraylon
May 23, 2010, 05:45 PM
I'm looking to get the xd as a carry gun since my sig p229 is a like carrying a brick not that I'll be carrying the xd or my sig loaded with reloads but I would like to be able to shoot reloads though it if I want to without reloading just for the xd.

Walkalong
May 23, 2010, 06:29 PM
Now I have to go get my XD SC .40 and see what the heck a "slide rib" is.

Please do not tell it that it can not feed TrFP (Truncated Flat Point) ammo, since it has never failed with the 155, 165, and 180 Gr TrFP bullets I have loaded for it. It has never balked at any JHP's I have put through it either.

I have never tried any SWC's, but haven't seen the need either. Maybe I will. Perhaps it doesn't know it can't feed them either. (shhh...don't tell)

bds
May 23, 2010, 06:52 PM
Walkalong, slide rib is the long ridge that runs the bottom center of the slide.

On most semi-autos (like 1911s, Glock, M&P, Taurus, etc.), rib near the breech (chamber) end is angled down so as the slide recoils back from firing a round, it rides (pushes) on top of the next round in the magazine and the spent case base rim clears the top of the case in the magazine.

On XD slide, the rib is angled down further towards the back of the pistol and is straight near the breech (chamber) end. For all rounds (RN, JHP, TCFP) this won't cause an ejection jam as the spent case base rim can ride along the top of the bullet in the magazine and then slide along the case neck (that's why you'll see some scape mark on some spent cases). But the SWC has a definite shoulder on the bullet that will cause the ejecting case base rim to be caught due to the straight rib near the breech (chamber end). The angled rib on most other semi-auto will push the case in the magazine further down to ensure the ejecting round has clearance at this location.

As already stated, this problem is only with SWC, not with other bullet nose types. So if you don't shoot SWC, no concerns. The range master and range staff were surprised that I wasn't aware of this "known" issue, especially for XD45 (the model most commonly used for that range's matches).

JDGray
May 23, 2010, 07:18 PM
Sigs are bottomless pits, when it come to chambers and when the rifling starts.:D

When I loaded for my G23, I loaded Win 165gr TC bullets at 1.125, and factory Magtech 180gr TC ammo measured 1.120

Good luck!:)

Walkalong
May 23, 2010, 07:21 PM
Show me.

bds
May 23, 2010, 07:35 PM
Walkalong, it's hard to see on the vertical slide pictures (look at the slide from the side and it will be easier to tell). XD slide rib is angled down at "A" and is straight near breech/chamber end "B" while most other semi-auto slide rib is angled at "C"

Believe me, I have checked many, many pistol slides at the range and at home and all of the semi-autos I have checked are like "C" and all the XD's I checked were like "A" and "C". Most full size slides have long tapered angled rib whereas compacts and subcompacts have more pronounced angled rib (like Glock 27).

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=121684&stc=1&d=1274653981

bds
May 23, 2010, 07:41 PM
Ok, we can have an informal poll. Can everyone check your slide rib and post whether it is straight or tapered/angled near the breech/chamber end?

Walkalong
May 23, 2010, 07:53 PM
My XD at "B" in the pic has a rounded edge. It is not "straight", nor 90 degrees. Am I still lost?

As an aside, that Springfield 1911 slide is one I squared and flared the ejection port on by hand many years ago. File and sandpaper with cold blue. Turned out OK I think. I also did a Colt L/W Commander I still have.

bds
May 23, 2010, 08:02 PM
Check this THR thread discussing XD and SWC issue - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=516267

Check this thread out at xdtalk (they have some solutions too) - http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-45acp-discussion-room/112695-semi-wadcutter-feed-mods.html

Here's repost diagram from xdtalk showing SWC and straight slide rib - http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-45acp-discussion-room/58545-45-swc-jamming-6.html#post1075507
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=121687&stc=1&d=1274656021



Here's crude picture of angled slide rib on Glock 27 (the slide rib angle is less pronounced on fullsize slides):
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=119349&stc=1&d=1270874926

243winxb
May 23, 2010, 08:05 PM
is that what the "M" stands for?The XD (M) is a refined version of the original Springfield XD Pistol. The "M" means changes have been made. See NRA American Rifleman June 2010, just out.

Walkalong
May 23, 2010, 08:34 PM
Doesn't look like a straight or angled issue. It looks like one rib is just higher in relation to the case than the other. :scrutiny:

What do I know though.

JDGray
May 23, 2010, 08:56 PM
The rib on my Kimber is flat from the breech, to the FP stop. Not like pic "C" at all. Should I sell it?:D

bds
May 23, 2010, 09:15 PM
Walkalong, since you will be shooting TCFP in 40S&W primarily, it may be none issue for you. :D The xdtalk consensus is that they won't sell their guns either - they'll be mindful of bullet selection. JDGray, many other pistols have the straight rib design, but does have the clearance so no ejection problem with SWC. So far, XD is the only pistol with straight rib design that have issues with SWC bullet profile that we know of.

Mind you, I almost bought an XD last year, specifically the XD45 because of the published accuracy. I am in the market for another 45 pistol this year and my first choice is STI Trojan, but they are not sold in California (I also would like to test out the new Taurus G2 in 40/45, but they are nowhere close to production and we have to wait for California drop testing :fire:).

I am considering the XD45 compact very seriously despite the SWC issue. Thankfully, Missouri Bullet makes 200 gr RN and I will happily reload them. If I can't get 200 gr RN, I will simply shoot 230 gr RN.

Walkalong
May 23, 2010, 09:39 PM
The rib on my Kimber is flat from the breech, to the FP stop.So is that Springfield, and all my other 1911s.

Walkalong, since you will be shooting TCFP in 40S&W primarily, it may be none issue for youYes, but curiousity killed the cat. I may get some SWC's to try.

I had an XD .45, but sold in in preference to my 1911s. It was a great gun. I just prefered 1911s. I never tried any SWCs in it that I remember, but I might have. I was shooting a bunch of them at the time.

Tim the student
May 24, 2010, 02:17 PM
Wow - lots of information in this thread. Very informative posts here. I learned a lot. Thanks guys.

Kraylon
May 24, 2010, 02:48 PM
I have too thanks

evan price
May 25, 2010, 02:53 AM
I will 100% agree with the problem. I have an older XD9 and it feeds my reloads with 2-radius ogive lead RN bullets just fine. This slug has a SWC-like driving band that is wider than the actual ogive is... the Lee TL356-125-2R is pretty much a good example of this.

My neighbor liked my XD9 so much he bought one himself- it's a newer model by severla years and there is visually a difference in the barrel/chamber dimensions.
His newer XD9 won't feed my 9mm 2R-ogive reloads, it jams exactly as shown in the picture above- the ejecting round's rim catches on the edge of the driving band of the next round up in the magazine.

Odd that my older XD9 won't do this.

5thSFGroup
May 26, 2010, 01:12 PM
I am using the #5 TCFP in my daughter's XD/M 3.8, .40 and in my Sig P226. I had the length at 1.125 and then dropped it to 1.2. Other than the smoke issue I raised in another thread, these rounds have functioned perfectly for over 400 shots. I am using 3.5 grains of Clays powder.

As far as the .45 goes....I own a Kimber CDP ProII. It is an incredible pistol. Extremely accurate, light to carry and lots of fun to shoot. I have used +P rounds in it...only to test them...since that is what I carry. I fire round nose lead reloads on a daily basis without a single problem. I do suggest that if you purchase a .45, you use ONLY round nose rounds in it.

5thSFGroup
May 26, 2010, 11:52 PM
The 230 RN works great in a Kimber.

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