Safest 9mm round for home defense for autoloaders?


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AskDrTodd
May 25, 2010, 04:24 PM
What are the best rounds to use that won't penetrate multiple walls in an apartment and not cause FTF or FTE's?

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MachIVshooter
May 25, 2010, 04:29 PM
#4 Buckshot.

Seriously, there are no handgun loads that will penetrate the BG adequately, yet not be dangerous on the other side of a few interior walls.

AskDrTodd
May 25, 2010, 04:30 PM
looked at frangible ammo, but heard bad things about them cycling properly, and also bloodsucking lawyers describing them as somehow worse than standard ammo even though they were designed to not penetrate walls in home defense cases.

NG VI
May 25, 2010, 04:59 PM
Anything that will be reasonably reliably effective on adult humans will go through multiple apartment walls.

Get a good, current JHP design and practice practice practice.

I like the 147+P HST personally. Always been reliable in all my 9mm pistols.

NG VI
May 25, 2010, 05:07 PM
even though they were designed to not penetrate walls in home defense cases.

Well, that isn't really what they were designed to do, they were designed to shallowly penetrate, cause very wide wounds, and "dump energy" as quickly as possible in the hopes of inspiring high-velocity rifle-type trauma from an existing pistol platform.

Oh and then there is the other kind of frangible, which is training/range ammo made to allow people to train against steel at fairly close ranges. That will behave like FMJ in tissue.

grimjaw
May 25, 2010, 05:32 PM
I haven't seen the results of tests on multiple interior walls, but JE223's tests on Federal's EFMJ rounds seem indicate they have limited penetration if they pass through an attacker.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/9x19mm%20Federal%20105gr%20Expanding%20Full%20Metal%20Jacket.html

http://www.brassfetcher.com/40sw%20Federal%20135gr%20Expanding%20Full%20Metal%20Jacket.html

Good luck finding the stuff, though.

jonboynumba1
May 25, 2010, 05:49 PM
There is nothing you are going to find for 9mm that won't go through multiple walls...no good buckshot loads that won't go through multiple walls....basically if it's good enough to be a decent self deffense round...it's going to penetrate multiple walls....the frangible rounds are junk...nobody uses them in the real world that I know of. The problem is better aproached by knowing your homes layout...possibly choosing the bedroom and furniture arrangement at least partially with this in mind (likely fields of fire in a home invassion situation ect) Put your loved ones farther away from thre most likely dangerzones. Teach them the difference between cover and concealment...how to stay low and where to go and stay until you or police come get them...saferooms are becoming more and more common among the middle class now...not just the very rich. They are a good idea done right if you are building a home expect probably 8-12 grand for a serious one added to your contruction costs...that's not bad really when you consider all the natural and manmade dissasters they can be great for...and how fewer and fewer homes have basements these days

Buckshot will be far less destructive to neighbors houses ect...as smaller lighter buckshot bleeds energy off fast compared to say a rifled barrel stabilized bullet weighing several times as much with at least a partial jacket. But inside YOUR house they will still be going through whatever is in front of them...hopefully with a goodly amount of "ooomph" behind em. Loading birdshot is NOT a viable answer...no matter how many times it shows up on the internet...nobody does that in the real world that has been properly tought and educated on guns and tactics. Those are the highlights of this subject in my book. I protect my home with buckshot and handguns (me 12ga and .45...her 20ga and 9mm...both with proven tested ammo choices I'm very confident in) When I had a more rural home I did have a carbine...and that has a place....but where we live now it really can't logistically. (too bad...I like my AR!)

Confederate
May 25, 2010, 05:53 PM
The Federal 9mm 115gr JHP is a great all purpose round and one I'd recommend, especially in a home environment. The larger question is what 9mm pistol is safest? Which pistol is more likely to accidentally discharge if you inadvertently touch the trigger. There are a great many good, decent pistols available, but some are more prone to accidental discharge than others. The ammunition available is fairly decent, but the guns are more worthy of discussion.

MachIVshooter
May 25, 2010, 06:30 PM
looked at frangible ammo, but heard bad things about them cycling properly, and also bloodsucking lawyers

There are two types of frangibles. One is a range type, which is designed to disintegrate on impact with hard surfaces so that it can be used in training that involves close-up shots or in shoot houses and the like. As noted above, it'll behave like FMJ on a soft target and may not break up on soft sheetrock walls, either.

The other is the Botique ammo like Glasier safety slugs and Extreme-shok. They perform horribly in real-world ballistic tests. I'd rather have FMJ.

Smaller buckshot loads, like #4, are less likely to exit your house than a handgun round. But I stil wouldn't stand on the other side of one or 2 interior walls while someone fired a load in my direction.

If 9mm is all you have, just select a quality HP load that cycles reliably in your gun and if you ever have to use it, sit low and aim high, so that errant shots will go over other occupants lying in bed or sitting on the couch.

The Lone Haranguer
May 25, 2010, 08:51 PM
None, really. Any projectile that can inflict an incapacitating wound on a human is going to go right through most building materials.

FIVETWOSEVEN
May 25, 2010, 08:54 PM
9mm Snap caps :D

you asked for the safest 9mm in the title! :neener:

NOLAEMT
May 26, 2010, 01:27 AM
think about it... you are trying to pick a round that will penetrate a person, causing damage to internal organs, in the hope that they will stop their attack on you or your family. in order to do this is must go through skin, muscle, bone, and cartilage.

your walls are made of Sheetrock, and the occasional pine 2x4. this is much easier to go through than the skin etc. discussed before. So anything that is useful for defending yourself will unfortunately penetrate walls, often many of them.

If you absolutely can not risk a round penetrating through the wall, perhaps you should look at a taser? they don't use the aforementioned organ damage to stop an attack, and, when effective, can stop someone in their tracks. unfortunately they have many shortcomings that make them undesirable in many situations. they have a short range, if they fail, they fail miserably, they are very slow to reload, etc.

gofastman
May 26, 2010, 12:04 PM
The Federal 9mm 115gr JHP is a great all purpose round and one I'd recommend, especially in a home environment
This is the best answer imo, for a 9mm in the home.

owsi26
May 26, 2010, 12:16 PM
You might want to take a look at Magsafe. They make rounds with #2 pellets that have decent penetration and limited over penetration. Go to their web site and take look at their ballistic gelatin results.

RidgwayCO
May 26, 2010, 12:24 PM
Safest 9mm? How about the .380 Auto?

Shawn Dodson
May 26, 2010, 12:31 PM
MagSafe SWAT is specifically designed to fragment when it encounters sheetrock. IIRC the bullet core is epoxy with no lead shot. Its fragmentation performance in sheetrock is erratic and unreliable.

In addition, MagSafe doesn't offer its SWAT load in 9mm.

zhyla
May 26, 2010, 03:51 PM
The only rounds that won't be dangerous after going thru a single interior wall are birdshot, snakeshot, etc. Fragmentation doesn't make a round automatically non-lethal, especially if someone is right on the other side of the wall. Just a sad fact of home defense.

So... get the 9mm round that will do the best job of disabling an intruder. Fewer shots = fewer chances to miss.

Full Metal Jacket
May 26, 2010, 07:33 PM
Hst & pdx1 are two of the best.

Robert101
May 26, 2010, 07:50 PM
AskDr, I just don't understand why a safe apartment round is a consideration. If you have to use a gun to defend yourself and/or your family, then that is your primary concern. Select a bullet that feeds well in your gun, and shoots to your point of aim. As someone mentioned perviously, if you don't want to penetrate a partitian wall then use BB's or #4 lead shot in some fashion of a weapon - maybe a stun gun is a viable alternative as well.

Full Metal Jacket
May 26, 2010, 07:55 PM
AskDr, I just don't understand why a safe apartment round is a consideration. If you have to use a gun to defend yourself and/or your family, then that is your primary concern.

i think inadvertently shooting an innocent person in the apartment next door should be a concern for all gun owners.

:eek:

SDShooter
May 27, 2010, 01:07 AM
I agree with FMJ. I have looked carefully at which directions I could shoot inside my house with a low probability of endangering anyone else. I know my neighbors, and some of them have small children, and I would be devastated if an errant round hurt an innocent person. I would rather take a round myself than to deliberately shoot in a direction that I knew could hit a neighbor if I missed. Of course those with family members in the house have to think about protecting them in addition to themselves. That makes regular practice extremely critical and trying to anticipate the most likely scenarios, while we all hope they will never happen.

AskDrTodd
May 27, 2010, 09:41 AM
I agree. I really like the reliability and capacity of the 9mm, coupled with the light and laser on it, the light to identify that an intruder really is an intruder, and the laser to lessen the chance of me missing. From a handgun standpoint it seems the only safe load is the taurus judge with .410's in it. The absolute last thing I'd ever want to do is harm anyone at all, period, but if someone breaks in and I have no option but to defend my family I would rather not have the fear in the back of my mind that there is a chance I could miss and hurt someone unintentionally.

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