Shotshell reloading: Before there were shot cups...?


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heviarti
May 26, 2010, 11:51 PM
I'm a cheapskate. I'm a major cheapskate because I'm often short of cash. I've got two or three shotshell reloaders hanging around, and I'd like to start loading for at least two gauges (16 and 12) I'm not in an area with a large amount of reloading supplies available... and It'll be some time before my rig is good for a trip to boise.

Powder is available, don't know where I'm going to get shot, but the big bugaboo is the shot cups. Is there a low tech solution to the shot cup? I know very well they didn't have plastic shot cups when any of my shotguns were made (cep'n the semi-auto) and each shot cup runs a different pressure.

I guess what I'm saying is is there an 'outmoded' method that might work better with less resources? I've burnt probably eighty shotshells in the last few days... I seriously need to start reloading.

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oneounceload
May 26, 2010, 11:57 PM
Called mail order - wads are available from a huge number of suppliers and will give you better results than trying to replicate fiber wads from days gone by. A bag of wads (500) will be less than 10.00

You need a reloading data source and follow the recipe explicitly

heviarti
May 27, 2010, 01:55 AM
That's the one thing that makes it a pain to load shotshells. I have to completely replace all my components as I work toward the load I need. Since I can't come up with an answer on how to get my long recoil action shotgun to cycle with the 3-3 1/8 dr. loads, I guess I need to find a load that *just* cycles it. With the very specific perameters of shotshell loads it's going to be very difficult to get what I need.

Why would it be so difficult to duplicate these fiber wads? Old technologies tend to be easy to re-create.

snuffy
May 27, 2010, 02:42 AM
Why would it be so difficult to duplicate these fiber wads? Old technologies tend to be easy to re-create.

Duplicate? If by that you mean make them yourself, forget it. If you mean can they be bought nowadays, then yes they are available. ;

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

More specifically, ;

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/departments.asp?dept=211

You need a hard card wad over the powder, then some soft filler wads, then the shot. You have to adjust the wad column height to get a good crimp. BP also has loading manuals for those paper wads.

scythefwd
May 27, 2010, 02:57 AM
Some guys here make their own cotton patches and lube them themselves. You can make your own patches at home... but I don't know how they will work for you. Some of these guys are doing it for muzzle loading shotguns if I remember right. Might want to drop a thread in the BP subforum asking questions and a link to this thread to keep it all tied together.

243winxb
May 27, 2010, 08:57 AM
Pick up fired plastic shot wads at your local trap range before they mow the grass. Wash them, sort by make, brand and type. If you have time but not money, this works well. All you need is a good crimp. Lite target loads. Plus, make a few $$ being a trap boy, if the club doesnt have auto traps.

ranger335v
May 27, 2010, 10:02 AM
Not real sure I know what you want. If it's wads, do spend the money for store bought, even in the old days we didn't try making those. If it's shot cups, do without them, all it will do is lead your bore a little but it's easy to brush out.

You won't find any way to get your long recoil shotguns to feed cases longer than what they were made for. Come to think of it, you won't do that with any repeating shotgun.

heviarti
May 27, 2010, 12:53 PM
Hmm. If I'd known I could reuse them I'd'a been picking em up. All I have to do is go directly beneath any of the larger trees. (I shoot starlings, which accounts for my shotshell usage)

I never said I was trying to put long shells through the shotgun. Allow me to clarify: I am having failure to cycle with three and three and an eighth dram equivalent loads. I need to find a load with which my shotgun will cycle. I'm not quite sure how I'll determine this, but optimally the load will move the action one quarter inch further rearward than the minimum amount to guarantee a full cycle and ejection. (the quarter inch is a guess on my part to handle small anomalies in the uniformity of the load.)

Also, something tells me it's healthier to leave cardboard or fiber in my yard than plastic, and a guy could probably get more fiber wads in the same place you could get a given amount of plastic shotcups in for shipping or storage purposes.

snuffy
May 27, 2010, 01:34 PM
Pick up fired plastic shot wads at your local trap range before they mow the grass. Wash them, sort by make, brand and type. If you have time but not money, this works well. All you need is a good crimp. Lite target loads. Plus, make a few $$ being a trap boy, if the club doesn't have auto traps.

Bad idea! If you do sometime pick up used plastic wads, notice how some of the over-powder cups have two tiny tears in them. That's caused by gas operated shotguns, the wad tears when it passes the gas ports. That wad will then leak gas pressure when it's re-used. You will get a hollow POOM when you shoot that load. Also, the shot cup portion will be de-formed by the trip down the barrel. Your patterns will be erratic at best.

heviarti, you're right, the plastic will never de-grade, it'll outlast you by several hundred years! The paper wads will bio-degrade in one summers, I doubt you could find any intact wads right after shooting them.

Also, if you're talking about a Browning A-5 or one of the savage clones, they're regulated as to function by the placement of the friction rings on the outside of the magazine tube. Also whether they're lubricated or not. it's been a decade since I messed with one of them, so my memory isn't up to snuff on where to tell you to put the rings. You CAN do it with loading intensity, bu it's easier to do with the ring placement.

243winxb
May 27, 2010, 01:47 PM
failure to cycle Make sure all friction rings and other parts under the forearm have been replaced in the correct order. Cardboard & fiber work but your pattern will become larger with the choke your using. When lead pellets contact the steel barrel, they become out of round & do not fly true. Bigger patterns.

rcmodel
May 27, 2010, 02:19 PM
I agree with Snuffy.

It sounds more like a friction ring adjustment problem then a reload problem.

A long recoil shotgun based on the Browning A5 design can be adjusted to work with almost any load you want to use in a minute or two.

What kind of gun is it?

BTW: Recycled plastic shot cups will work just fine in a recoil operated shotgun.
I shot a million of them I picked up off the Ft. Carson skeet range when I was in the service and didn't have any money to buy new ones.

A nylon mesh bag full of used wads and a trip to the laundrymat was all it took.

rc

fecmech
May 27, 2010, 06:58 PM
I shot a million of them I picked up off the Ft. Carson skeet range when I was in the service and didn't have any money to buy new ones.

RC--I thought I was about the only guy who did that! Back when I started shooting skeet (about 1968) I had a young family and no money. AA wads were $10/ per thousand (equivalent to about $30+ today) and I picked them up at our skeet range. Guys teased me but I didn't care, I just wanted to shoot and that was the only way. I also shot 7/8 oz. in the 12 ga, almost unheard of at the time by sticking old card wads in the shot cup to take up space. A bag of shot at the time was about $5. and 7/8 oz. gave me about 100 more shots to the bag than 1 1/8 oz loads that everyone else used. I shot quite a few 50's and an occasional 75 but never was able to put 100 together.
Still banging away today in Sporting Clays but now I'm "Big Time", using new wads and a whole ounce of shot!

heviarti
May 28, 2010, 01:40 AM
No, I don't have an A5, unfortunately. I'd love to have a Remington Sportsman Model 11 in 20ga. Missed one for $350 at the local shop, and kick myself on a regular basis for that reason. I can't hit anything with my ca. 1916 model 12 in 20. Gave my friend a Stevens 258 in 20 when I got the model 12. Only gun I don't feel bad for letting go. I also have a Lefever Nitro Special in 16, which I can hit things with 50% of the time (that's good for me) and a Franchi 48AL in 12 that's as good as the 16.

The Franchi is the one that needs wierdness done with it. I bought it not knowing that the governor ring and friction spring were not present. I do have the friction ring. I can cycle the light stuff with the friction ring completely removed, But I had not depleted my mag and had the bolt hang once. The ring went back in immediately, and it's been a straight pull single-shot since.

It's does not make sense to me that if I add components (weighting the spring more) that it would be likely to cycle the shells I'm running. I've considered making a friction ring about half the depth of the one I'm using now and see how that does, but just like tuning I don't know how I'm going to test to be 100% sure that i'm not getting too much travel. As much as a pain in the butt as some of the features of the Franchi are, I like it because it delivers results.

I don't need gi-huge-ic magnum loads for starlings. I don't need to put myself through twenty or thirty rounds of way heavy loads a day, and I really don't need speed or range. I only needed magnum loads twice, and I run them in my pump (blowing the honeycomb out of a semi muffler, and knocking some chain stays off an old hay elevator, and yes, REALLY.)

Have the Ballistic Products catalog on the way. They have roll crimp equipment. Roll crimps just make me happy for some reason. Maybe they'll have 6 1/2 or 7 shot. Think I want bigger'n 7 1/2, and 6 is too big. I seldom need big shot. Think I used 6s once, and got buckshot if I need it. (lives in my 97 riot)

heviarti
May 28, 2010, 09:46 PM
Amazingly the local Bi-Mart has reloading supplies!

They do have the Winchester AA White shotcups and the Western Orange shotcups, one of which I may be stuck using 'til I can make an order from BP. I have a pile of winchester bulk low brass and about a thousand an as yet unidentified (marked with stars) hulls, and some red dot I've had for a while. Hopefully there's a load I can use. I bought 125 rounds today, but that's maybe a week and a half worth.

They've also got lead shot.

Roccobro
May 29, 2010, 02:12 AM
Amazingly the local Bi-Mart has reloading supplies!
:jealous:

Justin

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