WANTED: 45 cal. ammo that Penetrates 14 to 16 Inches!


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Dog Wonder
May 28, 2010, 11:51 AM
I shoot an HK45C with a barrel length of 3.9 inches! This handgun will be used for protecting my home. I am asking for recommendations on 45 cal. JHP ammo that will penetrate a minimum of 14 to 16 inces of penetration! The reason I seek this kind of penetration is because I have seen torso shots where 12 inches of penetration wasn't enough because some people have torsos that are thicker than 12 inches!

Thank-you for your time & Happy Memorial Day!

:)

Mike

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Presto
May 28, 2010, 11:58 AM
Mike,

I doubt that you will find anyone here that has done any practical tests (shooting someone) on any ammo. My advice may sound a little "canned", but you should probably choose a high quality round and test it to your own satisfaction.

jon_in_wv
May 28, 2010, 11:58 AM
A bullet doesn't need to completely penetrate the entire torso to be effective. The extra penetration could also be a detriment in a home defense scenario where the extra penetration through walls could be a real danger to others. Just get any one of the reputable HPs (HST, Hydrashok, Gold Dot, Golden Saber) which will all penetrate about that much in gelatin and spend much more time worrying about your marksmanship and a lot less time worrying about the bullet.

If you don't think your 45 will provide enough stopping power with the popular ammo types than I would suggest you look at getting a 12 gauge.

JTQ
May 28, 2010, 12:00 PM
There are penetration tests all over the net, but I don't have any handy.

Most modern hollow-point .45 ACP ammunition is designed to penetrate to those depths.

If I recall correctly, the heavier bullets will generally penetrate more than the lighter bullets (within the same caliber and bullet design). If you are looking for more penetration get the 230 grain bullets. If you want less, get the 165 grain bullets. The all copper bullets tend to throw those generalities out the window though.

claiborne
May 28, 2010, 12:03 PM
http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm

don't know if you can get this conversion for your pistol, however.

MachIVshooter
May 28, 2010, 12:09 PM
Well, I handload 240 gr. Sierra SJHC's in Remington +P cases to 1,130 FPS from my 3.5" 4516-1. They're heavily constructed, inteded for hunting use in Ruger only type heavy .45 Colt loads. That load generates 680 ft/lbs and penetrates like the dickens. But I ONLY use is in my S&W 3rd gen guns. I'm not sure an HK can take these borderline .45 Super loads, at least not for long.

The same bullet loaded to a more sedate 1,000 or so would probably be a good choice for your requirements, but it's not available as a factory load. Handloading only.

c919
May 28, 2010, 12:17 PM
^^^ Wow. If anybody would like some worms, I think Doc Glock just opened a fresh can..... :D

Buck Snort
May 28, 2010, 12:20 PM
http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm

don't know if you can get this conversion for your pistol, however.
I actually bought a 460 Rowland kit for my Wilson Combat .45 and could never get the 24# spring to fit into the gun. It's sitting in my gunsafe if anybody is interested.

MachIVshooter
May 28, 2010, 12:36 PM
Just stating my opinion from past experience. The 1911 was a great design in 1911, however this is 2010 and far better designs have emerged.

Whatever your opinion may be, 1911's and AK's weren't part of this discussion until you brought them in from left field.

That said, there's a reason the 1911 has soldiered on for 100 years and is still an extremely popular pistol. Set up properly, they can take the beating of the 10mm, .45 Super and .460 Rowland just fine. My Kimber 10mm runs like a top, and both of my Colts have digested alot of +P .45 and are still goin'.

ofitg
May 28, 2010, 01:27 PM
Dog Wonder, here are some gelatin test results from Evan Marshall's book "Street Stoppers" -

Rem 230 Golden Sabre....... 14.3 inches
C-B 230 BHP +P ............... 14.0
Horn 230 JHP+P ............... 15.0
Win 230 SubSonic............. 15.5
Win 230 S-SXT................ 14.8

Expanded diameters ranged from 0.66 to 0.75 inches.

Full Metal Jacket
May 28, 2010, 01:48 PM
Just stating my opinion from past experience. The 1911 was a great design in 1911, however this is 2010 and far better designs have emerged.


my faves are glocks/cz's/1911's.

all great designs. :)

Full Metal Jacket
May 28, 2010, 02:02 PM
I make no bones about the fact that I think the .45 acp and the 1911 are antiques. Hey that's my opinion. Do you have to be a 1911 fan boy to participate on this forum?

right here lol

Makarov is a far superior design IMHO and will serve as military side arm just fine and it still being found in Afgan. Now you can't say that for the 1911 antique. After 4 trips back to Yonkers, my Kimber went to another person to aggravate. I literally gave it away. I have a few old 1911A1 Series 70 Colt rattlers that I shoot every now and then when time permits. I would never carry one for a CCW

:eek:


......

Full Metal Jacket
May 28, 2010, 02:09 PM
^^the cz83's are fantastic guns. as good as a wilson combat cqb, though? :eek:

Full Metal Jacket
May 28, 2010, 02:25 PM
^^i have fired both, that's how i know they're fantastic quality. :)


prob the best trigger pull cz ever came out with.

KBintheSLC
May 28, 2010, 02:26 PM
I thought that most modern JHP in .45acp would do around 14" without too much trouble.

Just noticed post 12

stealth
May 28, 2010, 02:47 PM
Dog Wonder, here are some gelatin test results from Evan Marshall's book "Street Stoppers" -

Rem 230 Golden Sabre....... 14.3 inches
C-B 230 BHP +P ............... 14.0
Horn 230 JHP+P ............... 15.0
Win 230 SubSonic............. 15.5
Win 230 S-SXT................ 14.8

Expanded diameters ranged from 0.66 to 0.75 inches.
Now THIS is the kind of reply I like to see. We definitely need more.


To the OP, I agree 100%! There is a reason it is called the FBI MINIMUM and frankly It baffles me to see so many JHP manufacturers at or under that minimum. Remember, penetration is king.

Full Metal Jacket
May 28, 2010, 02:54 PM
^^golden sabers are known for having some of the biggest muzzle flash of any self defense jhp, not to mention core separation from the jacket. they're not bad, but there's much better.

winchester PDX1 is much better than SXT.

marshal street stoppers is over 20 years old. there's much better jhp designs now.

Full Metal Jacket
May 28, 2010, 03:12 PM
Penetration is the primary reason I carry FMJ and weapon function reliability is another. That is the same reason the Military does and that is good enough for me as well.


overpenetration and a small permanent wound channel is not a good thing.

what kind of gun is it? should feed some kind of jhp's reliably.

Dog Wonder
May 28, 2010, 03:21 PM
^^golden sabers are known for having some of the biggest muzzle flash of any self defense jhp, not to mention core separation from the jacket. they're not bad, but there's much better.

winchester PDX1 is much better than SXT.

marshal street stoppers is over 20 years old. there's much better jhp designs now.
Ammo designs have improved since Evan Marshall's Street Stoppers!

Full Metal Jacket
May 28, 2010, 03:23 PM
^that's what i said lol

Full Metal Jacket
May 28, 2010, 03:25 PM
I am asking for recommendations on 45 cal. JHP ammo that will penetrate a minimum of 14 to 16 inces of penetration!

hornady TAP penetrates more than many competing jhp's as it doesn't expand quite as much.

that's prob your best bet.

NG VI
May 28, 2010, 03:31 PM
Military uses FMJ out of convention, cost, and also feed reliability. The kind of penetration the military is looking for out of pistol bullets isn't really affected by changing from a JHP to an FMJ, I mean a steel helmet will swage the HP closed and render it FMJ for practical purposes, the only things that JHP penetrate meaningfully differently than FMJ are soft targets like tissue.

Just saying, I wouldn't go picking ammunition based on what the military uses. Police and other civilian weapon-carrying groups, sure, because they have very different needs than the military which synch up quite well with private citizen's ammunition needs.

NG VI
May 28, 2010, 03:34 PM
Why are there 28 responses on one page?

.357 magnum
May 28, 2010, 05:43 PM
The Winchester 230gr Bonded is the load you are looking for. The Winchester SXT is a Great Load BUT-it does NOT penetrate as far as the Winchester Bonded 230gr. I use Law Enforcement Ammo-Although I think the over the Counter Winchester PDX1 should get you close too, if not the same Results. There is a another Very Good Load you can get over the counter. That is the Speer Gold Dot 230gr Short Barrel Ammo.

The Best to You and Yours!

Frank

Mr. S
May 28, 2010, 08:55 PM
Here is a test I found online you may find informative.


http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/45_CorbonDPX.htm

Dog Wonder
May 28, 2010, 09:19 PM
The Winchester 230gr Bonded is the load you are looking for. The Winchester SXT is a Great Load BUT-it does NOT penetrate as far as the Winchester Bonded 230gr. I use Law Enforcement Ammo-Although I think the over the Counter Winchester PDX1 should get you close too, if not the same Results. There is a another Very Good Load you can get over the counter. That is the Speer Gold Dot 230gr Short Barrel Ammo.

The Best to You and Yours!

Frank
Do you know where I can find any ballistic tests on the Speer Gold Dot 230 short barrel ammo?

.357 magnum
May 29, 2010, 02:57 AM
http://le.atk.com/general/speerproducts/handgun/golddotshortbarrel.aspx

Honestly with a 4 inch Barrel I would stick with Winchester Bonded 230gr Check the Winchester Link out below. Bonded Ammo tends to Penetrate Deeper-Which in real life means more Crushed Bone, Longer Wound Channel, More Chance to Disrupt a Major Artery, ETC. As far as Expansion I trust The American Made, Modern Major Brand Ammo to Expand Well. Especially these Three-Winchester, Federal [HST's] and Speer Gold Dot.

http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf

The Best to you and Yours!

Frank

sigsteve
May 29, 2010, 03:08 AM
Here is a great caliber resource that I came across some time back. http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1293.htm

Ridgerunner665
May 29, 2010, 03:20 AM
Plain old Hornady 230 grain XTP's...

I've seen them penetrate 18 inches and exit on deer.

Frank Ettin
May 29, 2010, 12:25 PM
I've heard good things about HST, Gold Dot and Winchester PDXI. I'd use anyone with confidence. But I would run 100 to 200 through the gun first, just to confirm reliability and accuracy.

Penetration is the primary reason I carry FMJ and weapon function reliability is another. That is the same reason the Military does and that is good enough for me as well. Actually, the primary reason the military uses FMJ is the Hague Accords. And it's my understanding that the military uses JHP ammunition for some Sec Ops applications when its use would be permissible under the Hague Accords.

As far as reliability, all the JHP ammunition I've tried has worked 100% in my 1911s and my H&K P7M8s.

The military may use FMJ ammunition to comply with the Hague Accords, but pretty much all police agencies in the U. S. use JHP.

...NJ private gun owner are not permitted hollow point ammo of any type.... Not quite true. In New Jersey, a private citizen may have JHP ammunition in his home.

Frank Ettin
May 29, 2010, 12:55 PM
I just like a heavy FMJ for the penetration and feeding reliability...Your choice. I'll stick with JHP myself.

...A private citizen better never use that JHP either in his home in NJ. It will only exacerbate the litigation to follow. Just saying! And on exactly what do you base this contention?

janobles14
May 29, 2010, 01:01 PM
Plain old Hornady 230 grain XTP's...

I've seen them penetrate 18 inches and exit on deer.


this is exactly what i was going to say. someone mentioned the TAP ammo and it is loaded well and effective. it feeds in my XD but just wont cycle in my 1911 so it gets limited action.

but insofar as penetration goes, its on top imo!

Art Eatman
May 29, 2010, 02:13 PM
Gettin' repetitive and circular...

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