Any reason to choose STI/SVI over common 1911s in USPSA??


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Ughh
May 28, 2010, 10:27 PM
Hello thr, well as the title implies: Is there any reason to choose a STI/SVI 1911 over a common 1911 from like Kimber, SA, Para, etc... for USPSA/IDPA use?? (USPSA - single stack division and/or Limited 10 division.)

Keep in mind that I'm not talking about STI/SVI hi-cap models, or the 2011 models. I'm just asking about the 1911s.

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Kingofthehill
May 28, 2010, 10:30 PM
They are great shooting guns. I use my Trojan in competition over all my other 1911's

Quack
May 29, 2010, 12:05 AM
yes, STI has a contingency program.

Zak Smith
May 29, 2010, 12:07 AM
I'd say superior quality, if you have the money.

Boba Fett
May 29, 2010, 12:15 AM
I was at my local dealer and was looking at a Kimber. I know the owner fairly well and he said that if I wanted a 1911 to check out the STI.

He didn't tell my anything about how great they were or why they were better than Kimber...he just opened the case and took one out and told me to rack the slide and try the trigger.

Night and day difference between the STI and the Kimber. I would say the STI has a much more precise and crisp feel to it.

The slide is like rubbing a stick of butter on a hot Teflon pan...silky smooth.


I'm still not sold on the 1911 platform yet (personal preference...nothing against 1911), but if I get one it will be an STI. My dad picked up one and he really loves it. I've shot it and compared to the Kimbers or Springfields I've shot, it is in a league of its own.


Another great reason to buy it is that it's made in Texas! :D

Zak Smith
May 29, 2010, 12:20 AM
I shot a .45 1911 in L-10 and it's a decent setup for that division, although not as gamey as you can get obviously.

Ughh
May 29, 2010, 03:08 PM
Yea but for the extra money, is it necessary?

...he just opened the case and took one out and told me to rack the slide and try the trigger.

Night and day difference between the STI and the Kimber. I would say the STI has a much more precise and crisp feel to it.

Really? there is a trigger difference? Regardless, even if the trigger is better, is that all, just a trigger feel difference for that much extra??

Kingofthehill
May 29, 2010, 03:56 PM
what do you mean is it necessary for the extra money?

A $1200 Trojan is FAR superior then the equivalent $1200 Kimber. So yes, it is necessary.

If you are going to shell out $1200 and you want a Mechanically superior 1911, look at STI. Not to mention their accuracy and customer service is way better then kimber. OH! and they don't rust while on the shelves of the gun shop.

And yes, i own plenty of kimbers and i have had to use both Kimber and STI's customer service so im speaking from first hand experience and not spreading internet gossip.

Ughh
May 29, 2010, 04:48 PM
what do you mean is it necessary for the extra money?

A $1200 Trojan is FAR superior then the equivalent $1200 Kimber. So yes, it is necessary.

If you are going to shell out $1200 and you want a Mechanically superior 1911, look at STI. Not to mention their accuracy and customer service is way better then kimber. OH! and they don't rust while on the shelves of the gun shop.

And yes, i own plenty of kimbers and i have had to use both Kimber and STI's customer service so im speaking from first hand experience and not spreading internet gossip.
However is a $1200 Trojan that much better than a $700 Kimber Custom II--not TLE or RL/TLE, or any upper end kimbers.

Ughh
May 29, 2010, 04:49 PM
or Springfield Armory Loaded models.

LeonCarr
May 29, 2010, 05:07 PM
STIs win. Period. I have seen shooters jump a class, including one finally jumping to Master Class from A Class after years of trying with single stacks, just by switching to an STI. Why? Much better reliability, higher capacity, much better workmanship. I seriously doubt that there are any MIM parts in an STI or SVI. The SVIs are basically the same gun(flame suit on) but you see more STIs in the hands of the big name shooters. If winning is everything, STIs are worth the money for USPSA.

As far as single stacks go, I would choose a STI Trojan over just about any 1911 out there. Even the STI Spartan is better than most of them. If I were a 1911 guy, it would be an STI.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Boba Fett
May 29, 2010, 05:59 PM
Yea but for the extra money, is it necessary?



Really? there is a trigger difference? Regardless, even if the trigger is better, is that all, just a trigger feel difference for that much extra??
No, that is not all. It is not just the trigger.

Read the rest of my post, the slide / action is just way better.

Is it that much better than a Kimber or Springfield? I don't know...I'm not you. A bit clunkier may be alright to you, and no big deal if that's the case. To me, yes it is worth it. And they really aren't that much more expensive so why not go with the better pistol.

The overall operation of the STI 1911 is just smoother, crisper, and better than the other 1911s I've shot.

Kingofthehill
May 29, 2010, 06:05 PM
However is a $1200 Trojan that much better than a $700 Kimber Custom II--not TLE or RL/TLE, or any upper end kimbers. or Springfield Armory Loaded models

Simply put. YES.

You could also find one Used like i did. I bought mine Used for $725. It was the BEST money I have ever spent on a 1911. I was using my Springfield Loaded fully worked by Jim Hoag and it has done very well for me and im probably $2500 into that gun, but my STI Trojan is a better gun for competition.

I could only imagine one of STI's high end models!...

I wish i lived near you so you could shoot it, If you shot it, it would make total sense. The ONLY 1911 i have right now that comes even close to my STI Trojan is my Les Baer.

Both of those blow my 3 Dan wessons, 4 Springfields, 3 Kimbers, NightHawk and Wilson away.

JOe

Boba Fett
May 29, 2010, 06:27 PM
I could only imagine one of STI's high end models!...

I haven't shot them, but I have drooled on them a few times ;)

Expensive, but really nice.

Ughh
May 29, 2010, 07:26 PM
STIs win. Period. I have seen shooters jump a class, including one finally jumping to Master Class from A Class after years of trying with single stacks, just by switching to an STI. Why? Much better reliability, higher capacity, much better workmanship. I seriously doubt that there are any MIM parts in an STI or SVI. The SVIs are basically the same gun(flame suit on) but you see more STIs in the hands of the big name shooters. If winning is everything, STIs are worth the money for USPSA.

As far as single stacks go, I would choose a STI Trojan over just about any 1911 out there. Even the STI Spartan is better than most of them. If I were a 1911 guy, it would be an STI.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Your .02 is nice, thank you. It's unbiased and not too opinionated. But doesn't Rob Leatham shoot a Springfield 1911? What about Todd Jarrett and his Para 1911's?

Ughh
May 29, 2010, 07:36 PM
Simply put. YES.

You could also find one Used like i did. I bought mine Used for $725. It was the BEST money I have ever spent on a 1911. I was using my Springfield Loaded fully worked by Jim Hoag and it has done very well for me and im probably $2500 into that gun, but my STI Trojan is a better gun for competition.

I could only imagine one of STI's high end models!...

I wish i lived near you so you could shoot it, If you shot it, it would make total sense. The ONLY 1911 i have right now that comes even close to my STI Trojan is my Les Baer.

Both of those blow my 3 Dan wessons, 4 Springfields, 3 Kimbers, NightHawk and Wilson away.

JOe
Wow.... I think I really will look into an STI. I wish you lived around here too so I can test it out.

Normally when I ask about brands like when I made a thread back then about Para's 1911s, it was half-n-half about Para Ordnance being bad quality and the other half saying they're good. Some said the finish they use for their non-stainless models sucked, some said it was nice. Everyone said their customer service sucks though. But then here, even if it's a modest 10 or so people sharing their opinions, so far it's unanimously positive about the STI over the common, reputable companies' 1911s. :D

Quack
May 29, 2010, 08:12 PM
and some more reading for you.

yes i know that it's for a 9mm, but it just shows the accuracy and quality of a $1000 gun. if you look on the 1911 forum, there are posts of the Trojan being as accurate than semi-customs that cost twice as much.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_174_29/ai_n8968397/

9mm 1911 PPC PISTOLS

Load Velocity Avg.
(inch)
Springfield Armory 1911-A1 5" PPC
Black Hills 125 gr. FMJ 1,190 2.82
Federal 124 gr. Hydra-shok 1,123 1.53
Federal 124 gr. FMJ Match 1,156 2.09
Winchester 147 gr. TMC 999 2.36
6.0 gr. Power Pistol 121 gr. Hornday JHP 1,235 2.22
Average: 2.20

Springfield Armory 1911-A1 6" PPC Bull Barrel
Black Hills 125 gr. FMJ 1,231 2.77
Federal 124 gr. Hydra-shok 1,161 2.84
Federal 124 gr. FMJ Match 1,185 2.78
Winchester 147 gr. TCMC 1,035 3.18
6.0 gr. Power Pistol 121 gr. Hornday JHP 1,248 2.03
Average: 2.72

STI "Trojan" 5"
Black Hills 125 gr. FMJ 1,146 2.87
Federal 124 gr. Hydra-shok 1,063 2.61
Federal 124 gr. FMJ Match 1,105 2.22
Winchester 147 gr. TCMC 944 1.87
6.0 gr. Power Pistol 121 gr. Hornday JHP 1,170 2.33
Average: 2.38

RETEST

Springfield Armory 1911-A1 6" PPC, Nowlin Standard Barrel
Black Hills 124 gr. JHP 1,306 2.02
Federal 124 gr. Hydra-shok 1,151 1.79
Federal 124 gr. FMJ Match 1,176 2.24
Winchester 147 gr. TCMC 1,028 2.10
Anderson 147 gr. XTP 1,032 1.83
Anderson 147 gr. FMJ Match 1,040 1.66
Winchester 147 gr. Silvertip 1,003 1.40
6.0 gr. Power Pistol 121 gr. Hornday JHP 1,269 1.74
Average: 1.85

Retest With Bull Barrel
Black Hills 124 gr. JHP 1,290 1.77
Federal 124 gr. Hydra-shok 1,157 1.55
Federal 124 gr. FMJ Match 1,187 1.67
Winchester 147 gr. TCMC 1,037 2.19
Anderson 147 gr. XTP 1,034 1.23
Anderson 147 gr. FMJ Match 1,048 1.09
Winchester 147 gr. Silvertip 1,044 2.07
6.0 gr. Power Pistol 121 gr. Hornday JHP 1,268 1.42
Average: 1.75

Accuracy results are results of three, 10-shot groups @50 yds.
from Ransom rest.

Velocity is the instrumental average of 30 shots @ 15 feet.

Quack
May 29, 2010, 08:19 PM
Your .02 is nice, thank you. It's unbiased and not too opinionated. But doesn't Rob Leatham shoot a Springfield 1911? What about Todd Jarrett and his Para 1911's?

they don't shoot 1911's that come off the production line, both have their guns built.

here's a look at Rob Leatham's guns:
http://robleatham.com/Rob%20Leatham%20gun%20vault.htm


FWIW, the Rob Leatham TGO-1 is one of my favorite 1911's that i own :D
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Quackzilla/Guns/DSC_2347.jpg

Kingofthehill
May 29, 2010, 10:51 PM
But doesn't Rob Leatham shoot a Springfield 1911? What about Todd Jarrett and his Para 1911's?

I think to a certain extent its a case of "its not the Arrow its the Indian".

I don't own any more Para's, i had bad luck with them... not saying they can't be made nice and reliable, it just wasn't worth it to me when i can buy X that works perfect from the get go.

BUT if Para came to me with a sponsorship and flew me around the US and paid for my ammo, Id shoot Para in a heartbeat.

If Latham picked up a Steyr M9, people would buy em'. If he shot Beretta, he would do just as well i think.

I was a Sponsored RC car racer for Team Losi. At the time I was more into Team Associated but Losi paid my way so I was a Losi driver.

Just because X person shoots X brand, it doesn't mean they couldn't do just as well with similar guns in its class.

JOe

buck000
May 29, 2010, 10:59 PM
(Warning: I'm new to the shooting sports, so my opinion is probably worth considerably less than 0.02 Zimbabwean...)

I have an STI Ranger II in 9mm, and a Kimber Tactical Entry II in .45 ACP.

The Ranger is indeed a sweet-shooting gun, and the action is quite nice.

Unfortunately, it's been back to the factory (fortunately, half an hour away from me) four times: twice for extractor tweaking, once for extractor replacement (broken hook) and ejector replacement (seemed loose), and back again for ejector tweaking.

After the 2nd fix, I put over 2000 rounds through it with no problem. I need to put another thousand through it, trouble-free, before it restores my confidence in it. However, it pretty much sends bullets exactly where I'm aiming when I pull the trigger. ;)

The Kimber definitely had a bit of breaking in to do, where for the first 300 rounds or so, I had about 5-6 premature slide locks. However, after that, the next 1000 rounds have been trouble-free, and the trigger seems just as nice as the STI's (a tad lighter, even).

I really like both guns. The Kimber is very nice to look at, the STI is gorgeous to my eyes, and they both send their bullets to target quite nicely...

http://buck000.smugmug.com/Other/Bang/DSCN0819/724783630_mbtX8-M.jpg

71Commander
May 30, 2010, 09:50 AM
I have 12 1911's and the Trojan is the one I use in SS. I bought mine from Tripp. Hard chromed. 2# trigger. It was a little more than 1200.00, 6 years ago :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/tucker13/sti-a.jpg

LeonCarr
May 30, 2010, 10:40 AM
Mr. Ughh,

Yes it is true that Rob Leatham and Todd Jarrett don't shoot STIs, but the Springfield and Para guns that they shoot are custom built to their specifications by the respective custom shops. Also, they have been sponsored by their respective gun compaines for over 20 years IIRC. You can take an STI out of the box and win matches with it if your skills are there. Some tweaking with individual guns still goes on, but the STIs are the closest thing to an out of the box gun that can take you all the way to Nationals.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Kingofthehill
May 30, 2010, 11:32 AM
71 commander. That is BEAUTIFUL!...

I may hard chrome mine after seeing that one!

TonyT
May 30, 2010, 12:25 PM
STI makes excellent guns. I shoot an STI Trojan in 40 S&W. You should also consider the Dan Wesson - my PM-9 is superb in terms of both reliability and accuracy. I shoot a Springfield trophy Match is 45 ACP and it id very reliable and accurate. In contarst my SA 1911 taget in 9mm was relaible but nowehere near the consistent accuracy of the DW PM-9.

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