.22 Magnum


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Left Coaster
May 29, 2010, 12:39 AM
I hope I have found a knowledgeable pool of folks to help me.
I would like to find a concealed carry, lightweight sidearm, auto or revolver that uses this round. What do y'all prefer or have info on?
Thank you in advance for your help.

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.455_Hunter
May 29, 2010, 01:15 AM
Welcome to The High Road!

Smallest available are the North American Arms (NAA) Mini-Revolvers. Take a look at wwwnaaminis.com.

The Cadillac would be the Smith and Wesson Model 351PD. Use the search function at smith-wesson.com.

The .22 Mags offer decent penetration, but are VERY loud.

Boba Fett
May 29, 2010, 01:34 AM
Are you set on 22 magnum or are other calibers acceptable? There is a whole range of pocket pistols out there if you're not locked into 22 magnum.

A good place to look is Bobo's Pocket Chart:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171820

http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.jpg

oldfool
May 29, 2010, 02:05 AM
aw nuts... 1st time poster, too
CCW 22WMR, light, sidearm
"I hope I have found a knowledgeable pool of folks to help me.
I would like to find a concealed carry, lightweight sidearm, auto or revolver that uses this round. What do y'all prefer or have info on?"

no, you found an internet gun forum, it was google, not gawd

there is no shortage of very real world class expertise here, but..
it's not gun god turf, it's internet, and it's going to get ugly..

there are 22WMR autoloaders, but very few, and even if you find one that is supposed to be reliable, it probably will not be, because of the few names who do/did that have been traded around too often, and it really is a very difficult round to design a reliable pistol for
(I happen to own one, but that is not relevant)
go revolver, far safer bet

if not too ashamed and flamed to even think about it when "we" get done with you
Google up Smith and Wesson, and seek 22WMR
not the only thing out there
real pricey
but lots of others that look like a "good" deal are mostly not
no shortage of decent revolvers that can do well w/ 22WMR, for limited usage,
amongst the most popular being the Ruger single six (very good quality handgun), but relatively few would choose a SA for what you describe

(stay away from the Taurus 941, unless you read a LOT about 'em, on a LOT of gun forums; methinks you better off with the Ruger SA, because the trigger is so bad on the Taurus, it is near worthless for DA, and if not an experienced DA revolver shooter, you just might not ever be willing to try another)

PS
ain't none of my business, but if you have not shot a lot of handguns, there are others that the rambos equally despise (revolver and pistol), about same weight and size in centerfire, that throw more weight with no more (or less) noise nor substantially more felt recoil than a 22WMR in a small package
most of which ain't near as great as gun forum folk are going to tell you that they are, but many are (especially in revolvers), more versatile

oldfool
May 29, 2010, 02:12 AM
see there, this is THR, and 1st two replies were helpful, not flame full
(could be I have gotten too cynical ??)
:uhoh:

mnrivrat
May 29, 2010, 03:04 AM
There of course will be a lot of talk about your choice of caliber for self defense, but I'll stick with the gun part.

First I agree that a revolver in that caliber is an almost certain better choice. The rimmed cartridge is not ideal for magazine feed, and most auto's ever made for the round are not all that small for carry either.

Top choice is the S&W gun in my opinion as well. Remember that rim fire guns need more hammer spring than center fire guns for reliable ignition. This means a heavier trigger pull.

Charter Arms, Taurus, and NAA are others to give consideration to.

I've owned and worked with enough Taurus wheel guns to be assured you can get a good one, and shooting or tuning it makes it better. Their design is fine, and their metalergy is good, they sometimes have other quality control issues. Not that S&W or others can't also - they just seem to have fewer of those issues.

That's all folks !

Nematocyst
May 29, 2010, 03:39 AM
Top choice is the S&W gun in my opinion as well.That S&W gun would be this one (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766363_-1_757767_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y).

Please note that S&W's description is as follows:

Purpose: Personal Protection, Law Enforcement

It has the same look (and presumably feel) as the M&P 340 (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282173).

Never underestimate the simple stick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH309YwzxsY).

The Lone Haranguer
May 29, 2010, 08:09 AM
I would like to find a concealed carry, lightweight sidearm, auto or revolver that uses this round.
A revolver is more realistic. There are very few .22 Magnum autos out there, and they would be just as large or larger than any number of autos in more effective calibers. But, other than the mini-revolvers (which do have a niche as hideout/backup guns), a small-frame revolver in .22 Mag will be the same size as one in .38 Special, unquestionably a more effective caliber. I can see no need to downgrade power unless you are very sensitive to recoil for a medical reason.

mgkdrgn
May 29, 2010, 09:43 AM
I personally carry an NAA BlackWidow in 22mag. Both S&W and Taurus make more "conventional" revolvers in 22 mag. Of those three, the NAA is by far the smallest and easiest to conceal.

Steve 48
May 29, 2010, 10:30 AM
I carry a 22 mag Naa Pug occasionally and find it very adequite for defense.

Mad Chemist
May 29, 2010, 03:36 PM
.22WMR won't give you much more performance from a short barrel than a .22lr would. If you really want a .22WMR handgun you'll be best served by finding something with at least a 3" bbl.

Like oldfool said, you'll probably be best served with a revolver.

I am curious about the new Keltec pistol in .22WMR. If it proves to be reliable, it could fill a niche as a small game/survival weapon. But It's probably a little large for casual concealment.

Walkalong
May 29, 2010, 04:54 PM
Protecting me since 1978. NAA .22 Mag - Link (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5254700&postcount=2)

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=114632&stc=1&d=1265035586

Surprisingly powerful from a short tube. You do not want to be shot with it up close and personal.

Much better than the howitzer you left at home. ;)

Yes, if I knew I was going to a gun fight, I would bring a bigger gun. :)

Welcome to THR Left Coaster

VA27
May 29, 2010, 05:13 PM
A few here have suggested the S&W 351.

My personal experience with it was less than satisfactory. Even after a trip back to the factory, it wasn't 100% reliable. It was not accurate enough to be a trail gun. It was expensive. If you must have a Smith, look for a 51, 651 or 650.

The NAA's go bang every time, but you must put in the trigger time to make it work.

I haven't tried the Taurus.

I have an older Charter Arms and I've been hearing good things about the new ones.

I'd be inclined to start with one of those, rather than with the more expensive Smith.

Leanwolf
May 29, 2010, 07:42 PM
.455 - "The .22 Mags offer decent penetration, but are VERY loud."

True ....... but in a down and dirty self defense situation, you'll never notice how loud it is.

I've talked with two women who used .22 Magnums (both S&Ws), and they both said they barely recalled the revolvers going off they were so pumped on adrenalin.

L.W.

3daman!
May 29, 2010, 08:10 PM
Find yourself a Charter Arms Pathfinder. 2-1/4 barrel, lightweight, reliable, made very well, some-what kinda rare. I have seen them sell on the auction sites for 200-250$, but I would not sell mine for that. Have been carrying mine on/off for about 25 years.

gbran
May 29, 2010, 11:14 PM
Kel-Tec has a new semi-auto 13 ounce, 30 round 22wmr. It looks a little big for ccw, but it is very light and has 30 round cap.

Here is a link;http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pmr30.htm

22-rimfire
May 29, 2010, 11:25 PM
My choice would likely be the Smith 351. I was looking at a used High Standard derringer in 22 mag today. I have always had a thing for them, but never owned one. It would be more easily concealed than the 351.

owsi26
May 30, 2010, 03:15 AM
Sorry, but I can't help to suggest a Ruger LCP, which is .380. I have one and I'm happy with it. It is very light and small and there is even a laser that fits it perfectly.

I do have a NAA .22 magnum. A laser is now available for it!

oldfool
May 30, 2010, 09:41 AM
My choice would likely be the Smith 351. I was looking at a used High Standard derringer in 22 mag today. I have always had a thing for them, but never owned one. It would be more easily concealed than the 351.
I own the hi-std 22LR version
always wanted the 22WMR version... until I looked a lot of used ones
be aware they are alloy frames, and any I ever saw (used) looked pretty rough, put me off on the idea

strongly agree with any of the S&W 22MR choices
specifically including the older hard-to-find J-frame kit guns
would love to own 651 companion piece for my old model (but mint) 63, but don't much love the price if/when found
Rossi (way long pre-Taurus ownership) made a 22WMR clone version, model 511 (?) I think, occasionally seen used, some thought well of, though most seemed to feel they fell short of the S&W imitated (651)

mixed feelings re: Charter Arms, checkered history, ups and downs
people say they are making a comeback though, re: quality

oldfool
May 30, 2010, 09:53 AM
Sorry, but I can't help to suggest a Ruger LCP, which is .380. I have one and I'm happy with it. It is very light and small and there is even a laser that fits it perfectly.

I do have a NAA .22 magnum. A laser is now available for it!
I have the LCP as well, and if topic were LCP vs. NAA black widow, would definetly go with the 380
but neither is a easy gun to shoot well, no "derringer" really is
(the Crimson Trace on mine merely confirmed what I already know, how badly I pull down on that long DAO trigger pull, which was pretty awful... but ok for width of a poker table, last and only hope/... friend of mine shoots his really well, but spent thousands of rounds getting there... it's not a gun for inexperienced shooters, and the 380 LCP has a pretty stout bite,, too little handle

for pocket pistol auto vs a 22 WMR, I would suggest a berretta or similar in 32 acp
(knowing that most would deride the power in either 22WMR or 32acp)
but mostly, unless shooter is experienced, a revolver in SA/DA (or SA capable auto) strikes me as a better tool than any DAO.. likewise running against the grain of conventional wisdom

Onward Allusion
May 30, 2010, 09:56 AM
IMO, the 22 Mag cartridge is not meant for CC but like the 22LR it beats the hell out of bare hands. To get the velocity/energy, the barrel should be at least 6" - again not too good as a CCW. Aside from the louder report, there is also the issue of additional flash to consider, especially at night.


Left Coaster (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=121959)
.22 Magnum
I hope I have found a knowledgeable pool of folks to help me.
I would like to find a concealed carry, lightweight sidearm, auto or revolver that uses this round. What do y'all prefer or have info on?
Thank you in advance for your help.

oldfool
May 30, 2010, 10:11 AM
I do not disagree w/ Onward

my WMRs include (Irwindale) Automag II pistol 6", fun gun range day
High Standard Double Nine revolver 5" (mighty similar to a Ruger single six)
S&W model 48, 6" k-frame (my favorite)

I do believe any of those would be a serious deterent to bad people wanting to bad things
but would not CCW any of them
and much prefer model 66 S&W 6" k-frame '357' and/or Ruger 3" SP101 for home security

but OP did ask for 22WMR, and we are drifting away

oldfool
May 30, 2010, 10:37 AM
despite desire to stay on topic
if you do consider other pocket pistols vs. 22WMR
please do not get serious about 25acp
(alas, there is such a thing as just not enough)

David E
May 30, 2010, 10:47 AM
I would like to find a concealed carry, lightweight sidearm, auto or revolver that uses the (.22 magnum)

The first question is........why?

Why, specifically, do you want a .22 magnum handgun for self defense duty?

Many people who say they do have looked at the .22 magnum ballistic tables and conclude it'll be a great CCW gun. The problem is, the common ballistic tables show the energy created from a 20" rifle barrel. It's not nearly the same beast out of a handgun barrel, especially one 2" or shorter.

So the question remains: why a .22 magnum for defense?

Nearly any gun you find, this side of the single-action-only North American Arms revolvers (slow and unwieldly in a defense situation) or the 2-shot :eek: High Standard design DAO derringer will be just as large as a .38 special.

I'd take a 5-shot S&W 642 .38 over the S&W 8-shot .22 magnum every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

(hey, somebody had to say it)

sharpblade
May 30, 2010, 10:58 AM
This one carries around the neck.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/walker_019/Picture361.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/walker_019/Picture358.jpg

oldfool
May 30, 2010, 11:26 AM
"(hey, somebody had to say it)"

have no fear, friend David
being the 1st doesn't mean you will be the last !
trust me on that much ;)
(but it is an answer to an unasked question, you know)

Boba Fett
May 30, 2010, 11:48 AM
It might be good to have some more info from the OP.


1) Why the 22mag?
2) Are other options open to you or are you set on 22mag firearms?
3) Is this a backup gun or your primary CCW?
4) Have you shot 22mag from a small handgun before?

joneb
May 31, 2010, 12:17 AM
I'd get a revolver, 22mag is problematic in a semi-auto, for self defense I'd pick a revolver in 22lr as well. Taurus makes some light weights in 22 mag but I'm not sure how their quality is holding up :confused:
If used properly the 22 mag from a short barrel can disable any attacker in short order.

David E
May 31, 2010, 01:27 AM
If used properly the 22 mag from a short barrel can disable any attacker in short order

You can say the same thing about a knitting needle.

(except for the short barrel part!)

joneb
May 31, 2010, 01:44 AM
You can say the same thing about a knitting needle.
I agree, but a bullet can be placed from a safer distance.

Walkalong
May 31, 2010, 10:36 AM
The NAA .22 Mag (not unwieldy and slow to me), packs enough punch to get away, and is super convenient to slip in your pocket. Those are it's strong points. Easy to carry, and it's a real gun, not a rock.

If we are going to step up to a J or K frame revolver, the discussion is about something different than the OP is interested in.

My choice in that size/weight class would be different.

But heck, as long as we are talking too small, lets step up to the large frame gun while we are at it. Better yet, just tote your AR with you. :)

snooperman
May 31, 2010, 11:01 AM
It will be quick and you will be at a disadvantage. Get a large enough gun to stop the bad guy as quickly as possible if you value your life. Most often , the attack occurs from behind or the blind side and the victim is stabbed or beaten in the process . If you can get to your gun , you want at least a 38 special +P or 9mm in a small light weight gun. This is much better than a puny 22 magnum that was designed as a varmint cartridge. Do yourself a favor and read up on the research and data on such real life attacks and you will soon see why the 22 magnum is not the best choice for a defensive handgun.

doc2rn
May 31, 2010, 11:02 AM
If you are looking for full size S&W had a 651-4 I have one, and they have the airweight 351 but I didnt like the airweight.

bearmgc
May 31, 2010, 11:08 AM
.455Hunter has given you all the scoobiedoo you need for 22mag. But, please reconsider and look at the 38 in the SW642.

pecosriver
May 31, 2010, 02:14 PM
This gives me another opportunity to show my NAA .22 mag. with the laser.(brag,brag)122123

Mad Chemist
May 31, 2010, 03:35 PM
This one carries around the neck.

I don't think that wearing a pistol pointed at one's own head is necessarily the most prudent method of carrying a firearm. :uhoh::eek::what::banghead::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

sharpblade
May 31, 2010, 05:31 PM
Mad Chemist, I've been told that before. After I retired, I held a job where I had to travel a lot, mostly in the Southeast. Lots of night time traveling. I carried that little revolver around my neck most of 5 years. If you are familiar with the NAA revolvers, you know the hammer rests between chambers. I never felt uncomfortable having it around my neck. Quite the contrary, there were times when it felt very comforting.:)

David E
May 31, 2010, 10:05 PM
I agree, but a bullet can be placed from a safer distance.

Just how far away can you surgically place a bullet from a NAA?

The NAA .22 Mag (not unwieldy and slow to me),

Just how fast are you? To draw and put 2 shots on a 5 yd paper plate, how long?

If we are going to step up to a J or K frame revolver, the discussion is about something different than the OP is interested in.

Not so. The J-frame 351 is an eight shot .22 magnum.

David E
May 31, 2010, 10:12 PM
I don't think that wearing a pistol pointed at one's own head is necessarily the most prudent method of carrying a firearm.

That particular holster is the "OSH" from www.kytac.com

Unlike others I've seen, it has been pretty well thought out. The kydex is molded into the cylinder flutes, when they are in the "safety" position. IE; the hammer is down BETWEEN cartridges. The gun won't easily holster if the hammer is not in the proper position between cartridges, thereby aligning the cylinder. Of course, the owner may well keep the chamber empty under the hammer, if that's how he chooses to carry it.

The "cocker-blocker" prevents cocking the hammer until the gun has been removed from the holster. The covered trigger is self evident.

All in all, a pretty good set up for the gun.

joneb
June 1, 2010, 12:28 AM
Just how far away can you surgically place a bullet from a NAA?
I don't know, I've not shot one. My comment was referring to the cartridge in question. I have shot 22lr and 22mag snub nose revolvers, the ability to make fast and accurate follow up shots is hard to match.

David E
June 1, 2010, 12:45 AM
I have shot 22lr and 22mag snub nose revolvers, the ability to make fast and accurate follow up shots is hard to match.

No, it's not.

With proper technique and sufficient practice, one can fire a .38 snub with +P ammo just as fast and just as accurately as a J-frame .22 magnum.

TimboKhan
June 1, 2010, 12:54 AM
With proper technique and sufficient practice, one can fire a .38 snub with +P ammo just as fast and just as accurately as a J-frame .22 magnum.

I don't disagree in principle, but I also don't fully agree. It is rather more difficult to learn to control the recoil of a .38 as compared to that of a .22mag. Not impossible, mind you, but harder.

I have no pocket pistols in these calibers to compare or directly relate experience from, but I know I can run the rounds out of my MkII pretty darn quick and be right on target. I cannot shoot any of my other non-22 handguns as quickly, to include both my S&W 66-I and my old S&W Model 10, though in DA the Model 10 is pretty darn quick.

David E
June 1, 2010, 01:10 AM
I don't disagree in principle, but I also don't fully agree. It is rather more difficult to learn to control the recoil of a .38 as compared to that of a .22mag. Not impossible, mind you, but harder.

I said: "with proper technique and sufficient practice."

I know I can run the rounds out of my MkII pretty darn quick and be right on target. I cannot shoot any of my other non-22 handguns as quickly, to include both my S&W 66-I and my old S&W Model 10, though in DA the Model 10 is pretty darn quick.

I was comparing a J-frame .38 to a J-frame .22 magnum. Both have the same action. The only difference would be the recoil. I'm saying that, with proper technique and sufficient practice, the .38 can be fired just as fast and just as accurately as a J-frame .22 magnum.

The only currently made .22 magnun pistol I'm aware of is the new Keltec. This appears to be rather large gun and doesn't appear to be in the category the OP is interested in. (have you noticed he has not posted a single follow up?)

In the thread "Practical .380 use" I listed my times on a simple drill using various guns calibers and action types. The single action guns (like your Ruger .22) were easier to shoot faster than the DAO actions. I detailed some of my thoughts on the matter.

In my thread, "What is "control?" I posted the pictures of those drills.

BTW, how fast, is "pretty darn quick"..........really ?

TimboKhan
June 1, 2010, 07:50 PM
I saw the part about sufficient practice and meant to address it but evidently failed to do so, lol.

With an equal number of rounds downrange, the .22 will be easier to control at speed than the .38, and the cost of however many .38 rounds it would take to achieve a similar level of speed might be prohibitively expensive for someone.

I also realize that my comparison was quite different, but it was the only basis for comparison I have, though I do carry and shoot a Taurus 605, so I guess I could have used that instead.

Also, I have never timed splits, but pretty fast. I don't know, maybe a half second or 3/4 of a second? I know those aren't quarter second splits, but thats as fast as I can shoot and hit center mass. I can shoot and hit center mass faster with the Ruger.

David E
June 1, 2010, 07:57 PM
With an equal number of rounds downrange, the .22 will be easier to control at speed than the .38

Maybe, maybe not. Dryfire practice can accelerate the learning curve without a shot being fired.

and the cost of however many .38 rounds it would take to achieve a similar level of speed might be prohibitively expensive for someone.

Maybe....but have you priced .22 magnum lately? Some ammo is $15 or so per 50 rds. You can usually buy factory reloads for less.

If money is that serious an issue, then maybe they should've bough a shotgun instead.

Walkalong
June 1, 2010, 08:03 PM
To draw and put 2 shots on a 5 yd paper plate, how long?Well, I've never been attacked by a paper plate, but I might surprise you. What I can do with it may be quite a bit more than you can. After all, I have had it for many years.

Seems you have a distaste for .22 Mag and the NAA mini revolvers in particular, but that's OK, to each their own.

Most certainly there are better choices, but this one isn't worthless as you seem to think.

We have not heard from the OP in a while, but he asked about .22 Mag, IIRC. :)

David E
June 1, 2010, 08:15 PM
Well, I've never been attacked by a paper plate,

Nor have I. But most people accept the size being overlaid on a humanoid target's chest as being adequate for self defense. Besides, everyone knows the size and can practice on them, so as to compare apples to apples.

but I might surprise you.

Possibly......but tell me how fast do you think you are with drawing from your pocket and firing 2 rds on a 5 yd plate? Maybe you can think of another drill? I think most would agree that speed in a gunfight is a good thing to have on your side.

What I can do with it may be quite a bit more than you can. After all, I have had it for many years.

Again, possibly. I've not practiced much with mine, as I regard it more as a fun/novelty gun.

Seems you have a distaste for .22 Mag and the NAA mini revolvers in particular, but that's OK, to each their own.

Most certainly there are better choices, but this one isn't worthless as you seem to think.

As I've said countless times, "Any gun with you beats any gun not." I'll even add "including a North American Arms mini-revolver."

I know they can turn the tide against an aggressor. One guy in South Africa, I think it was, used his against 3 badguys, hitting at least 2 before his gun blew up. (I do not know why it blew up, but pics were provided. I also don't know the ammo he used, so I wonder if the failure was ammo related)

Another used his, loaded with snake shot, to utterly surprise a would-be mugger. (Funny story, actually)

Plus all the stories NAA has on their site.

But _I_ want something more than a single action mini-revolver when my life is on the line. Others can choose whatever they want to.

David E
June 2, 2010, 09:14 PM
Of course, there have been plenty of .22 magnum failures. A couple years ago in Arkansas, an escaped convict was shot with a .22 magnum by the Dr. he was kidnapping. It really pissed him off!

Boba Fett
June 2, 2010, 11:29 PM
Well, I've never been attacked by a paper plate, but...

ROFL! Oh man...that's such a great line. :D

Eb1
June 3, 2010, 12:06 AM
http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=367&category=Revolver&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

I think this is a fine choice if you will carry it. Anything is better than nothing, and I think this at self defense ranges would stop an attacker. JMO
I would carry it, and not feel bad in doing so. Heck. I carry its big brother the .32 H&R Magnum in the same frame from Taurus.

claiborne
June 3, 2010, 03:10 PM
Left Coaster, Welcome aboard.
I too enjoy the 22 magnum cartridge. I have owned and let go all but one 22wmr handgun.
High Standard Double Nine 9", needed the money.
Ruger single six, got tired of single action revolvers.
S&W 351 PD , purchased new, this one spit lead on every round and was inaccurate.
AMT automag II (Irwindale) this one is the keeper! FUN and LOUD! Not too concealable though.
Good luck.

kbbailey
June 3, 2010, 04:00 PM
I suppose I have shot enough .22mag to earn the right to make a comment.
I personally think the .22 mag is under-rated and mostly ignored by gun manufacturers. I have carried a single six for over 30 yrs while knocking about in the great outdoors. I have never felt under-gunned.....however....no dangerous animals in my area.
....as far as a "trail gun"....none better
....as far as a ccw, maybe not so good.

fishjar
June 3, 2010, 11:02 PM
Don't know if it has been mentioned but check out the review of Kel Tec PMR 30 22 on GUNBLAST.com

Watch the video, the full auto is "pretty cool"

I may get one of those :)

Steve 48
June 13, 2010, 06:22 PM
I take it you have never been shot with a 22 magnum. I have its stings and hurts every bit like any other bullet. It will at least give you a chance to escape. I feel very secure with a NAA Pug in 22 mag for a backup or the only gun I have at that time.

skoro
June 13, 2010, 08:58 PM
I hope I have found a knowledgeable pool of folks to help me.
I would like to find a concealed carry, lightweight sidearm, auto or revolver that uses this round. What do y'all prefer or have info on?
Thank you in advance for your help.


<sniff>

I smell a troll... :D

REAPER4206969
June 14, 2010, 05:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG1MwGX0CIM

GEM
June 14, 2010, 01:39 PM
That was a neat video - love the muzzle flash!

I have a 22 Mag - 22 mini. The first time I shot it at an indoor range between the partitions (I note the the gunblast guy stood back from them), I swear I thought that I had blown up. A giant flash and a whoosh of pressure that blew my hair back. Wow! :what:

I slammed my eyes shut as I felt the wave under my shooting glasses.

I also had a SW 651 - but sold it (bah - now they go for a good price). It was a quality gun but I didn't feel the round worked in it. After 50 rounds, there was such a mess of unburned gook and burned powered that the cylinder wouldn't rotate. I had to soak it in cleaner to get it to move. It you shot it at a paper target at 7 yards, there was clear residue pattern on it.


Anyway, if the price is right - I still might try the Kel-tec. I have a lot 22 mag ammo in the stash. Wonder how it will fire after a couple of mags? Get dirty.

Isn't it an updated Grendel - which didn't have a great rep. ?

Walkalong
June 14, 2010, 01:55 PM
The PMR-30 is a cool little gun. So is the Excel Arms .22 Mag (http://www.gunblast.com/Excel-22Mag.htm). I may have to get one of the Kel-Tecs.

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