Taurus Millenium Pro-140


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40cal.
May 30, 2010, 01:22 AM
As you can tell I'm new to the forum. About three weeks ago I visited my son where he goes to college. We were invited to go to a shooting competition by my son's roommate and his dad. We actually participated (Our first one). We used a Sig Mosquito in 22 cal. I can't tell you how much fun it was. It was a real gas. I personally own a Ruger GP-100. I am wanting a semi auto. I had my hopes set on an Springfield Armory XDM 3.8 in 40cal. Right now its a little rich for my income so I have found another that I like and am asking for your opinions. Its the Taurus Millenium Pro-140 sub compact in 2 tone 40 cal. It sure fits my hand well but I have never shot it. What do you think?

Signed,
Jazzed in Oregon:)

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hso
May 30, 2010, 02:09 AM
Plenty of people like Taurus handguns and others don't. Finding what fits and points naturally is the first step. After that it's a matter of finding the quality that you can afford within that family of handguns with the same grip angle and reach to trigger that fits and points.

Full Metal Jacket
May 30, 2010, 02:23 AM
s&w m&p is a great weapon designed specifically for the 40cal platform. check one out :)

Mike J
May 30, 2010, 03:36 AM
If you liked the XDm you might be interested in this & it might be closer to your budget. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=13348
I have a XD-40 service & like it a lot. The 399.99 price is for what they call the essentials package-it does not come with all the XD gear. If you get one with all that it is another 100 dollars. Personally the only piece of the XD gear I use is the magazine loader. I bought another holster & magazine carrier better suited to my purposes.

I apologize for not commenting on the Taurus-I have no experience with their semi-autos.
Another route you could take if trying to keep things affordable would be to look at Glock Law Enforcement trade ins. They can usually be found for around 400.00.

Oh and Welcome to THR.

basicblur
May 30, 2010, 04:02 AM
1. Beware Taurus quality (or lack thereof?). I bought a PT145 a few years back-did a lot of research and soul searching, but there was just so much to like 'bout it that I took a chance. It seemed at the time Taurus semi-auto quality was catching up to their improved revolver QC, but I think over the last few years (due to sales?) their QC has really gone in the crapper. I base that on eyeballing a number of 'em, and I have a gunsmith relative at a local shop that has to work on way too many of 'em from the factory before the owner can put 'em out for sale. He tells me it's across the board-not limited to one model etc, and the majority of guns the shop gets back from customers are Taurus. I once visited him at the shop 4 times-3 of those times he was working on a brand new Taurus...I don't like those odds!
It's a shame-they seem to be coming out with nice stuff, but they need to put a hold on R&D etc until they get a handle on their quality.
2. Why 40? If no compelling reason, seriously consider a 9mm-much cheaper to shoot, and AFA SD I've tended to move down in caliber as SD ammo has improved over the years.
3. You could do a lot worse than an XD-my main CCW was an XDSC40 (pre Melonite), but when they upped the capacity of the 9mm with a magazine redesign, I bought an XDSC9-it's now my main CCW. I thought the muzzle flip on the XDSC40 was a bit much-I could handle the recoil, but prefer the 9mm for double-taps etc (plus cheaper to shoot).

FWIW, I've never been impressed with the XDM series-mebbe for a house gun, but too big for me, and I'm just not seeing the extra money for what you get. I'm doubly unimpressed with the 3.8 versions-I'd want a shorter grip before a shorter barrel! If you can get the "cheap" version of the XD, I'd go for it (get your own holster and UPLULA instead of the XD speed loader).

'Course, if you're talking competition and you get wrapped up in it, mebbe an XDM etc, but for CC, HD, etc, I prefer the standard line of XDs.

BTW-unless you get caught up in competition spending, ain't nothing sez you can't use a sub-compact for it (rules allowing) or for range work etc. I have just as much fun shooting my sub-compacts as anything else.

'Course, you gotta realize I'm a pragmatist and tend not to get wrapped up in all the hype/salesmanship.

EDIT: I assume you're familiar with conventional wisdom 'bout 45 vs 40 vs 9mm recoil? (45/push, 40/snap, and well, a 9 is gonna put somebody's eye out!)
Iff'n it was me, I'd seriously think 'bout the XD45/XD45C-the XD45C is still on my short list of guns I'd like to have!

bds
May 30, 2010, 04:10 AM
40cal, welcome to THR.

One of many reasons why some people did not like the Taurus pistols was their Double Action Only (DAO) trigger that did not allow you to shoot fast follow-up shots. I test fired a few models a few years back and I could not perform a fast double tap required for match shooting (USPSA/IDPA).

A few years back, the Millennium Pro line came with DA/SA 5 lb Single Action/multi-strike trigger (No italic "Pro" next to "Millennium" on the slide) and it is like day and night. I have the Mil Pro PT145 in stainless and while the SA trigger pull is not clean like my Glock, it is good enough for me and I really like it.

Before you make the purchase, I recommend you try shooting one at the range (most ranges will have the Mil Pro models as range guns). Of course, Glock/XD/M&P will have better trigger and perhaps more suitable for match shooting, but I would prefer the Mil Pro trigger for fast double taps over Sigma/P95 triggers (based on my own comparison tests). Also, compare the trigger to others like Glock and see how you like them. Personally, if you are serious about match shooting, I would recommend a Glock, but that's me (My match gun is a Glock 22).

As to accuracy, my range trip today produced 1"-1.5" shot groups at 7-10-15 yards with my match reference load of 200 gr SWC 45 ACP with W231.

However, as many may post, Taurus customer service is very slow and not very desirable. I had to return my factory magazine due to manufacturing defects and it took 5 months for me to receive the replacement magazine.

Since you are interested in the 40 S&W Mil Pro PT140, you shouldn't have much problem finding magazines, holsters and accessories. Believe it or not, my PT 145 slide is shorter than my Glock 27. PT140 is a bit shorter than PT145. Both have great ergonomics (slide lock, mag release, grip angle similar to Sig) and come with Heine 8 sights/10 round metal magazines.

http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?name=Millennium%20Pro%20Pistols&page=2

basicblur
May 30, 2010, 04:16 AM
We were invited to go to a shooting competition by my son's roommate and his dad.
It would help greatly if you told what you plan to use this gun for, or at least list uses by priority?

Competition vs SD/casual range work will give you a lot of different answers/recommendations.

Full Metal Jacket
May 30, 2010, 04:27 AM
Beware Taurus quality (or lack thereof?).

yep.

friends don't let friend buy taurus.

bds
May 30, 2010, 04:51 AM
friends don't let friend buy taurus.
Full Metal Jacket, I would agree for Taurus models that are older than say 2-3+ years. I normally steer my friends towards Glocks, but for those looking for compact 45, I have added PT145 to my recommendations.

While their current offerings may not match the quality standards of Glocks/Ruger/M&P/XD, one should not completely rule out various current Taurus models. I am seriously looking at the new G2 models also (if/when they come out).

I was hesitant about making my Mil Pro PT145 purchase last year, but it was highly recommended by my range officer/range staff for compact double stack 45 (and he normally hates Taurus models - he said the new Mil Pro PT145 is his only exception).

Full Metal Jacket
May 30, 2010, 05:27 AM
^^well i hope you'll be happy with your purchase, my friend :)

basicblur
May 30, 2010, 06:24 AM
I would agree for Taurus models that are older than say 2-3+ years. I normally steer my friends towards Glocks, but for those looking for compact 45, I have added PT145 to my recommendations.

I have a 2nd generation PT145-as stated, there's a lot of features to like, but I think Taurus may have had a window of improved quality, which unfortunately seems to have passed?

While their current offerings may not match the quality standards of Glocks/Ruger/M&P/XD

"May"? Really? :scrutiny:

Hey-if the OP wants one he wants one, but he needs to go into this with eyes wide open! I've no experience with Taurus CS, but from what I read if he happens to get one that's not quite right, he may very well be in for a hair pulling experience. 'Course, he's gonna haff to ship it back to Taurus on his own dime if required, which will quickly eat up any savings he thought he was getting by buying one.

weregunner
May 30, 2010, 07:44 AM
Okay. This is a discussion on the Taurus PT 140 that the OP requested data on. Actual data.

Witty repartee that is not witty and poor uninformed "conventional wisdom" that is not supported with facts makes those types of people irrelevant to a thread such as this.

If they have no experience with the PT140 then they are of no consequence and should not be taken seriously or even noticed.

I will say that I do not own a PT140, but own several of their kin.

These pistols have all worked well and are over 12 years old except for one.

Reliability has been the watchword from them.

What I do bring is info from the actual owners and users.

The PT140 is a popular pistol. Oh,yes. I can bring 40 pages of links of the satisfied PT140 owners.

Here's the scoop and right form the horses mouth.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=32889.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=33388.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=3037.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=33478.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=30854.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=35722.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=31900.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=30244.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=30608.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=30241.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=18905.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=7378.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=33850.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=29011.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=509.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=6716.0
Holsters and accessories:
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=34667.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=32074.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=28947.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=34560.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=33576.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=14325.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=33863.0

There are links within the links on some of these that have pertinent info.

Ammo, shooting experience, and other factors are also in the links provided. Holsters were covered in some detail.

So there you go 40cal.. Actual facts and hard core data. Yes, there's a lot there, but then research and doing anything right can take this kind of digging and sifting.

If the gun fits you and your needs, that's all that matters and what anyone else may say does not matter. Unless it's actually helping a fellow shooter. For real that is.:)

If you have any other questions on the PT140 I can normally ferret out the info.

Walkalong
May 30, 2010, 12:17 PM
I really like the XD platform I think you'll be happy with one. I much prefer them to the M&P, but there are plenty of happy M&P owners to be sure. I also prefer it to that other plastic gun that started it all, but it is a fine weapon as well.

Taurus does get bashed some. I have had two, still have one (My buddy has and loves the one I don't have anymore), and would buy another. The PT series of guns seem to have a lot of fans, although I have not had the experience of shooting one.

Shooting .22's is a blast, as you now know, and some of the cheapest shooting fun you can have. I traded my Mosquito for a Trailside, and I love my Trailside. I also have a Buckmark that is a great shooter. Can't go wrong with a .22.

Welcome to THR

bds
May 30, 2010, 12:22 PM
Another benefit of PT140 for match shooting is that you will have easier time selecting loads to meet major power factor with the 40 S&W caliber (most factory ammunition will meet major power factor) if you cross that match shooting line.

weregunner, I am a person who prefers objective, factual data over subjective "I have heard ..." comments. But enough shooters have had bad experiences in the past to make them very difficult to be supportive of Taurus products now - that's human nature. Although Taurus pistols come with life-time warranty, many report slow customer service (Fortunately, my range offers their own life-time "No BS" warranty for any new pistol they sell, so if I have any issues, they will address them and I won't have to fuss with Taurus customer service).

Believe me, I was skeptical of their DAO to DA/SA/multi-strike trigger changeover - until I shot the new models. I was surprised how much different the triggers were. For me, despite their lower price, Mil Pro lines pack a lot of "right ergonomic functions and features." I recommend that skeptics try out the new Mil Pro lines first hand and make objective determinations.

gearhead
May 30, 2010, 12:43 PM
I'm an engineer for a firearms manufacturer (NOT Taurus) but the company I work for doesn't manufacture a compact handgun. My compact .45ACP CCW is a Taurus 24/7 DS Pro Compact, and while some of the materials and finishes used aren't quite up to the standards of the best handguns out there it's a very functional and ergonomic handgun. So far it's been completely reliable with any ammo I've fed it. I realize this isn't 100% pertinent to the question about the Mil Pro line but the two pistols do have some commonality (including sharing magazines across similar calibers). I'm satisfied with mine, especially for the money.

40cal.
June 1, 2010, 12:29 AM
Well to answer one of the questions asked, 1. I plan on using the gun for a back up while I'm bowhunting(sorry).We're allowed to carrry a side arm while bowhunting. (Cougars and bears) As I related I own a Ruger GP-100. My son will be wearing it. Its foolproof. The other reason for the smaller semi is for home defense and conceal carry. Do you think I should move up to the 45cal. or is the 40cal. sufficient.

FLAvalanche
June 1, 2010, 09:43 AM
I would say save up for the XD. It's a much better pistol than the Taurus and their customer support is light years beyond Taurus.

dwhite
June 1, 2010, 07:13 PM
If someone buys a good product they will tell one person. If that product is a lemon they'll tell the world.

That said, you could probably find a police trade-in G23 for around $350 with some holster wear but a low round count.

I'd buy a Taurus with good faith in getting a good product. With the G23 there would be no need for faith.

All the Best,
D. White

basicblur
June 1, 2010, 08:48 PM
I plan on using the gun for a back up...(Cougars and bears)...home defense and conceal carry...smaller semi is for home defense and conceal carry.

Methinks you're going to have to prioritize a bit, realizing something is going to suffer (badly?).

Fer example-if your 1st priority is bears, I think you're going to be outta luck AFA a smaller semi. If your 1st priority is CC (smaller), you're gonna be outta luck AFA bears.

Conventional wisdom for bears says penetration (many folks recommend hard cast bullets-no hollowpoints or normal manstoppers) and power.

MCgunner
June 1, 2010, 09:25 PM
The other reason for the smaller semi is for home defense and conceal carry. Do you think I should move up to the 45cal. or is the 40cal. sufficient.

.40 is capable of anything .45ACP is capable of. I'd rather have a magnum revolver for black bear and lions, though. Well, .40 is probably plenty, especially for lions, but I just like magnum revolvers in the field. I have a 4" Taurus M66 nickel that's superbly accurate and chambered for .357 magnum. It's the one that would go with me in that bow hunting scenario. I have a 3" 66 I carry sometimes, but the little auto would be quite a bit easier to CCW. Go for it, they're good little guns. My SIL has a PT145 and I've been kinda jonesin' for one. For a 10 round double stack .45ACP, that thing is really light and small! It is very accurate and reliable, too.

40cal.
June 2, 2010, 11:25 AM
I would like to have as many guns as I wish unfortunately the Italian disease Lackoffundo's prevents me from doing so. What is the difference between the Taurus 24/7 and the Millenium pro? Yes I'm probably more "green" than you thought (maybe not).

jim243
June 3, 2010, 12:57 AM
40cal, I am glad to see your head is on straight, which I can't say about some of the others here. I actually have a PT-140 and shoot it often.

1. 40 S&W is a decent self defense round, but I would not recommend it for IDPA competition, I use 9mm for IDPA. Better recovery times for second and third shots.

2. Unlike the others, I have 3 Taurus, 2 Berettas, 2 Rugers (like your choice of the GP-100, I went with the SP101 2.25 inch 357 mag), 1 Kimber, 1 Colt, 1 Bersa, and some less known pistols as well.

3. The PT-140 Mil Pro is a good pistol, but terrable sights I blacked out the rear dot and now have no problem with it (otherwise you will be shooting low). It is small enough to carry comfortably, but is really good at short range (30 feet) self defense only. I keep saying I am going to dump it for something else but it is so reliable and comfortable in the hand that it will stay with me for a long long time. But not for match shooting.

4. Taurus, Ruger, Smith, Springfield all have problems when they bring out a new pistol. The problems are worked out usually on the next batch of pistols 2nd or 3rd gen.

5. If you are thinking of getting a new gun to try your hand in competition and something in your price range, I would sugget you look at something in a 4 inch barrel. The NEW Taurus 24/7 OSS is a redesign of the original 24/7s that were just OK but I think are now excelent. Or the NEW Ruger SR9 which are getting good reviews.

If you should win the Lottery, than a 229 SIG would be my recommendation.

Good Luck
Jim

bds
June 3, 2010, 04:25 AM
40cal, there is no "one gun fits all" - unfortunately.

Glock 27 travels everywhere with me and is my primary go-to pistol for SD/HD. Glock 22 is my match gun and I am thinking about using G27 for match shooting too (yes, it is that accurate).

The Taurus Mil Pro PT145 replaced the Glock 30 (45 Compact) that had bulky grip that my wife did not find comfortable, but she likes the smaller PT145 grip. It is a very conceal carry-able pistol despite the caliber and actually has shorter slide length than G27 (put side by side, they are comparable in size with G27 having +1 Pearce mag base).

If you can, I would recommend you try out both pistols before you buy. For match shooting, 9/40 will give you faster times and cheaper practice. For SD/HD, I prefer 40/45 for greater terminal effects.

For bears, I think most pistol calibers would just piss them off. I would consider 10mm/44 Mag to be the absolute minimal pistol backup to a rifle. However, a pistol would be better than nothing (for maximum penetration, load them with hard cast lead bullets). :D

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