Where did the Paterson Revolver go?


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Desert Scorpion
May 30, 2010, 01:54 AM
I have wanted to get a Uberti Paterson for some time; come to find out they are no longer sold for some reason by uberti, I dont want the Pietta version either.

Can someone tell me why Uberti is no longer selling there paterson revovler.

The U.S. Uberti web site does not show it www.uberti.com

The Italian Uberti sight does show it (in fact two models are shown)!!

www.ubertireplicas.com

Has anyone ordered from the ubertireplicas sight? or know why the Uberti Paterson is no longer available, or know where I can get a new one.

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arcticap
May 30, 2010, 02:50 AM
They were probably discontinued because some of them had problems with the cylinder often binding up during shooting.
Why don't you like the Pietta version?
Maybe you can find an Uberti on Gunbroker if you search for one frequently enough.

madcratebuilder
May 30, 2010, 07:30 AM
Uberti discontinued the Paterson many years ago, slow sales is probably the reason. Pedersoli made a Paterson and it was very spendy, close to 1K. Pietta made two different versions of the Paterson and I'm not certain if they are still in production. Colt Blackpowder Arms made a 3rd gen Paterson, very hard to find and very expensive when you do, 2-3K.

Most of the Paterson replicas do not have a loading lever and require you to break the revolver down to re-load, most don't like doing that after a few cylinders have been fired.
The Paterson has many more parts than a typical BP revolver and really need an experienced shooter for good results.

The Paterson is one of my favorites but I have to admit I don't shoot it as much as I would like because of the extra work of cleaning.

Pair of Pietta's Paterson's. Say that three times!
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/paterson01.jpg

Old counterfeit Paterson.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/patersom03.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/paterson01-1.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/paterson08.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/paterson09.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/paterson12.jpg



If you do find a Uberti Paterson remember it uses a proprietary nipple wrench that cost about $70. It's a four pin wrench, all others are two pin.

Loosenock
May 30, 2010, 08:16 AM
I've been looking for one for about 6 months. So when you find a car load of them be sure and post who's got 'em.

'Loose

madcratebuilder
May 31, 2010, 09:04 AM
Keep an eye on the Gunbroker, the Pietta's turn up occasionally.

pohill
May 31, 2010, 12:20 PM
While doing a search, you have to spell it PaTerson (correctly) and PaTTerson:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171425504

madcratebuilder
June 1, 2010, 07:02 AM
While doing a search, you have to spell it PaTerson (correctly) and PaTTerson:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171425504
I'll check both spellings. I've done that for years on evil bay and other auction sites. Mis-spelled items do not get many views and may go at bargain prices. I wish there were more letters in Colt.

Fingers McGee
June 1, 2010, 07:28 PM
Keep an eye on the Gunbroker, the Pietta's turn up occasionally.

Like this one: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=172005674

and this one: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171965968

or this one: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171425504

or this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171393230

or: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171124054

pohill
June 1, 2010, 07:55 PM
The original Paterson rifle that Fingers McGee listed actually has a misspelling on the cylinder - PaTTerson - but it's a legit Colt.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171393230

Jim K
June 1, 2010, 08:00 PM
Madcratebuilder lists the things wrong with the Paterson repros. The same things that were said about the originals.

BTW, that 4-pin nipple wrench is a replica of the original, made for the 4-hole Paterson nipple. Blame Sam.

Jim

Desert Scorpion
June 1, 2010, 09:30 PM
I went to purchase one of the Gunbroker Paterson's and it was sold 30seconds before I could buy it now.

Does anyone know of a gun shop anywhere or a friend that has a Uberti Paterson for sale please let me know.

WALKERs210
June 2, 2010, 07:03 PM
Don't know if you found what your looking for, here is link to Jedeiah Starr website for a Patterson they have. Never know it might be just what you want.
http://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?cid=13&pid=362&offset=0

Rock Island
June 3, 2010, 08:25 AM
I have a Uberti Paterson new, and unfired in the presentation case, but with the wrong two pin nipple wrench, I need to find that four pin one someplace and Dixie tells me they are out. The revolver is a nice piece of work as is everything I have ever gotten from Uberti. Dixie was selling them back in '03 when I got this one, I do most of my shooting with the '60 army, so the Paterson has just been a display, but I do intend to shoot it one day if I ever find that dam wrench.

madcratebuilder
June 3, 2010, 08:44 AM
About a year ago Numrich listed a Paterson case, cleaning rod and loading tool on evil bay. It had been in unheated storage at one time and the metal parts showed it. I won the bid at about fifty bucks. I refinished the case and cleaning rod. The loading tool need to soak to get it unscrewed, it turned out to be the four pin that I was in need of. I ended up with a $300 accessory kit for $50 and some elbow grease. Now I need the Paterson flask and a 3rd gen to put in the case.

mec
June 3, 2010, 03:07 PM
I have the Uberti with the loading lever as well as the one without. I would concur that they probably got tired of complaints about the glitdhy nature of these revolvers as it is necessary to fecundate with them quite a bit to get them to function. They also have three to four times the number of parts as a navy or later revolver- though I will say that I have had no broken parts with mine. They are great for the historical context but not what you would want as a primary shooting revolver
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=73633&stc=1&d=1203874235

bprevolver
June 6, 2010, 01:27 PM
mec,

Does your Uberti Patersons have 7 1/2" barrels? Also, do they have round back cylinders or square back cylinders?

bprevolver
June 6, 2010, 01:30 PM
Madcratebuilder,

Do you have any literature, info, etc. on the Pedersoli made Paterson revolver? I have only seen one and it was the American Historical Foundation Commemorative Gold Paterson.

mec
June 6, 2010, 01:58 PM
7.5' barrels and I would call the cylinder of the leverless model square backed and the later model more rounded
-see pictures, though I am not sure of the distinction.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=122379&stc=1&d=1275847626
Literature on the Patersons seems to be limited to a collection of articles on the Uberti Paterson over the years-several of which I wrote.
I contributed a great deal to this Wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Paterson
before I got disgusted with the bird watchers and psychotics who infest that site. It appears that none of them have gotten to it and screwed it up yet. The great majority of the Patersons produced seem to have been of the Texas pattern-belt revolver sized, 36 caliber and with the 7.5" barrel. After the Walker was put into service, a military man named Johnson who mapped Indian trails leading from Mexico into Texas, deplored the large size of the Walker, recommending a return to the Paterson type which used round balls. His premise was that the conical (picket) bullets of the walker necessitated an overlarge pistol to support a sufficient powder charge and was much more difficult to load.
The Texas Navy bought a number of paterson revolving pistols, rifles and smooth bores passing on some of them to the rangers. There was an earlier limited purchase by the United States and the arms were used in the second Seminole War. Colt showed his appreciation by engraving later pistols with a naval scene commemorating the Battle of Compeche wherein the Texas navy defeated the Mexican naval force. The paterson was present at the Counsel House massecre and gained notice in the later Plum creek battles and a much publisized engagement by rangers under Jack Hayes wherein a few ranges routed a force of 75 or 80 Comanches. Hayes reporteded used the multi-shot paterson in a fight with Comanches at the Enchanted Rock near Kerrville holding off the raiders until his ranger/survey crew could join the battle. It was about 1842 when the levered revolvers reached the rangers and Hayes is reported to have been delighted that he could now reload without dismounting his horse. Early boxed revolvers sometimes contained a spare, extra long barrel (pictures, RL Wilson's Colt book).

arcticap
June 6, 2010, 04:21 PM
Can madcratebuilder or anyone else give us any info about whether the Pietta Patterson model shoots and functions any good?
This would be the Pietta Texas Patterson with the 9 inch barrel unless Pietta made another version.

Like the one pictured below from Gunbroker and also in madcratebuilder's post:

pohill
June 6, 2010, 05:26 PM
I have the Pietta Paterson with the seperate loading lever. It's a great shooter - very accurate due to the length of the barrel. It jams worse than any gun I've ever owned due to fouling but a little spray of PAM on the cylinder pin and it just keeps on turning. Loading is pretty quick once you get a system going. Cap jams do not happen due to the recessed nipples.
The Paterson has something like 17 more parts than a Walker, so taking it down and putting it all back together the first few times can be a challenge.
If you buy one without the seperate loading lever, make sure it comes with the gun - they can be pricey and hard to find.

mykeal
June 6, 2010, 05:35 PM
Cumpston and Bates provide an excellent review of the Uberti Paterson in their book, Percussion Pistols and Revolvers, History, Performance and Practical Use, starting on page 59.

mec
June 6, 2010, 05:45 PM
the loading tool with my Uberti snapped in two the first time I used it. Pot metal. The originals had a tapered arbor and this could be used for a bullet seater. It works very well if you dont have the loading tool or a ball starter.

madcratebuilder
June 7, 2010, 07:06 AM
Madcratebuilder,

Do you have any literature, info, etc. on the Pedersoli made Paterson revolver? I have only seen one and it was the American Historical Foundation Commemorative Gold Paterson.
No info at all. I have seen two or three on the web, if I see them again I'll e-mail you a link. I've seen that gold plated one before.


Can madcratebuilder or anyone else give us any info about whether the Pietta Patterson models shoot and function any good?
This would be the Pietta Texas Patterson with the 9 inch barrel unless Pietta made another version.

The Paterson requires more attention to cleaning when loading. Keep the arbor lubed and the face of the cylinder clean and it's a good shooter. The loading of the cylinder in frame is more involved. This is one revolver that really benefits from a loading tool like the triple P.

I don't think field reloading was a big consideration back in 1836+ with these. It was the first time one fire arm gave the owner multiple shoots. My take from reading period literature is they simply shoot the revolver until empty and then went to another fire arm. I have read several things about gunsmiths offering "reloading of revolver" service. The revolvers would be cleaned, loaded and sealed. I don't think in field reloading was a common practice until the late 1840's with the release of the Walker with it's attached loading lever.

bprevolver
June 8, 2010, 12:00 AM
I check with Mr. Beauchamp, Pedersoli Distributor, a year or so ago and was told that the Paterson used by American Historical Foundation for the Gold Commemorative was purchased by Pedersoli from another manufacturer and were not made by Pedersoli. So far no Patersons have ever surfaced with Pedersoli markings. This is the reason I was asking. It would be a great find if a Pedersoli marked Paterson surfaced.

madcratebuilder
June 8, 2010, 08:59 AM
I check with Mr. Beauchamp, Pedersoli Distributor, a year or so ago and was told that the Paterson used by American Historical Foundation for the Gold Commemorative was purchased by Pedersoli from another manufacturer and were not made by Pedersoli. So far no Patersons have ever surfaced with Pedersoli markings. This is the reason I was asking. It would be a great find if a Pedersoli marked Paterson surfaced.
That would explain why we don't see any pedersoli's. It's a lot of tooling setup to produce a revolver, I would think they would want to make as many as they could.

flatwins
June 27, 2010, 12:41 AM
I just scored a Pietta Paterson for a great price, though it's not here yet. I have been looking for several months and was in the right place at the right time on this one. I am fortunate enough to be able to visit a fine collection of original Patersons at Woolaroc, about 45 minutes from my house. In fact, I was just there today.

Normally I am a Uberti fan over Pietta but I couldn't be too choosy on this Paterson I have en route. It is NIB but I plan to fire it. I hope to pick up a Uberti and have also emailed gunsmith Robert Millington about the possibility of converting a Paterson replica to cartridge ammo.

Nicodemus38
July 1, 2010, 11:23 PM
there was no "reloading services" being offered in the old west. ive seen that myth propogated before by a website claiming to be of historical facts about the old west.
think about it please.

in the 1800s wages were low. in 1840 ive sen that 70% of the general population made under $5.00 a week. and that revolver in teh display case costs about 20 dollars. and that is going to require a few months to save up for because that 5 dollars a week wage you earn shoveling coal in a factory is spent on clothing, food, lodging, as well as being saved up for the trip west.

Also in the west you had to rely upon yourself. you didnt have the ability to take that paterson out into the wilderness, shoot it empty at 5 indians, and then ride 300 miles into town so that the gunsmith would reload it, allowign you to travel another 300 miles back to your cabin to shoot the 6th and 7th indians who were burning your cabin down.

also on the reloading services, in the 1935 book on the texas rangers, theres a few parts that talk about rangers with pattersons reloading them behind cover while in a gun fight.

also what killed the paterson in the modern replica market was basically

no one wanted to get one becaause of hundreds of horror stories on line nad in print saying about how hard the 17 extra parts were to clean. and then the reloading process was hell for most people. the constant removal of barrel and wedge to reload was more then some could handle and after loosing enough wedges and retaining pins, etc, they would clean them up and sell or use as a display piece.

if thats not bad enough the quality of the accessories sucked. in the past it was considered godly good if the reloading rammer with nipplepick would survive 20 cylinders before snapping, or before it screwed the wedge slot in the arbor up.

then theres the fact that its never in the mveis. if josey wales had carried one for the big shootout at the cabin, then they would be making them still bcause alot of people only buy dragoons and walkers because they like josey wales.

pohill
July 1, 2010, 11:55 PM
I read that the reloading services were mainly for backup guns, the little .31 calibers with the short loading levers.

The Paterson is difficult to reassemble the first few times you do it. I got messed up with mine the first time and referring to a Pietta schematic didn't help. The diagram that did help me was a copy of an original. Taking pics as you take it apart is a good idea.

Reloading is, in my opinion, as fast or faster than reloading a typical BP revolver. Sure, taking the barrel off might slow you down, but the actual loading sequence, with the cylinder right there in front of you, is (again, for me) faster than loading in the revolver. Cap jamming is not a problem, though a fouled arbor will stop you cold (that's why I use lube pills or PAM).

Patersons are like dark beer - not for everyone. I don't like dark beer but I like the Paterson.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/S4020019.jpg

flatwins
July 2, 2010, 12:54 AM
I appreciate the history and milestones of firearms and so began my search for a Paterson. I've had black powder guns for over 30 years now so unlike guys who just want to run mags through Glocks, I enjoy the often tedious processes necessary to shoot the designs of yesteryear.

The original Paterson was not without its faults and the modern replicas are based on that same design. I imagine that both Uberti and Pietta were having complaints from customers expecting perfection and ease from the Paterson, not realizing that the pistol was not designed to run hundreds of rounds per hour.

I have the patience necessary to baby these old girls but don't have one in my possession yet (I have a Pietta and a Uberti on the way). Both mine are the non-loading lever type so I'll be using the loading tool and hoping it holds up to the job. I may try machining a modern, stronger example of the tool.

Does anyone know if the 5 tube flask offered by Dixie is the original design that drops powder and a ball in the cylinder? I doubt I will buy one but was just curious.

flatwins
July 8, 2010, 10:07 PM
To those inquiring about parts\accessories for the Uberti and Pietta Patersons, see VTI Gun Parts at http://www.vtigunparts.com/

I have no affiliation with them but they were great people to work with. My Uberti did not come with the separate loading\nipple tool and VTI had one. I also scored an extra cylinder.

steelbird
July 10, 2010, 04:24 PM
Don't know if this dealer is any good, but floridagunworks.com has the Uberti Paterson at 320.00. They're located in Miami.

4v50 Gary
July 10, 2010, 05:02 PM
the loading tool with my Uberti snapped in two the first time I used it. Pot metal.

Dang, that's something I'd expect from a 1970s era gun.

arcticap
July 10, 2010, 09:08 PM
Don't know if this dealer is any good, but floridagunworks.com has the Uberti Paterson at 320.00. They're located in Miami.

There have been warnings posted about them, and the Uberti Patterson has been long discontinued.

madcratebuilder
July 11, 2010, 09:47 AM
Don't know if this dealer is any good, but floridagunworks.com has the Uberti Paterson at 320.00. They're located in Miami.

I recommend you google FGW before you buy. They have a less than stellar reputation as a non shipper. In other words they rip folks off.

They list items that are no longer available, well charge your credit card and not ship. A friend of mine got burned on a brass grip frame a year or more ago. He did a CC charge back before the 60 day time limit expired so he did get his money back, but if he had waited just one more week he would have been out $250.

steelbird
July 11, 2010, 01:00 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I'm not interested in getting a Paterson - just saw that one appeared to be available, and thought I might let the OP know. I didn't know that these guys had a bad name. I wouldn't buy a gun online from anyone without knowing their reputation first. If I were to buy, I would have done the usual search for info on that company (or individual) before doing so. Same thing if you're buying electronics on eBay. I'm sure the OP would do the same.

flatwins
July 21, 2010, 01:11 PM
I just got my Uberti Paterson in and already had the Pietta. I have not had the opportunity to fire either one but going on fit and function alone, the Uberti is a jewel. I have another Pietta on the way that has been artifically aged and I have some plans for it (cartridge conversion).

So if you are in the market for a Paterson, look for a Uberti. They are nice!

Fingers McGee
July 25, 2010, 12:04 AM
Prices for Patersons are getting unreal. A NIB Uberti with loading lever just went for over $800 on Gunbroker. Admittedly, it had a 3 digit serial number, was charcoal blue, and the Colt Paterson markings on the barrel; but, $800.00+ ????

I've got a 4 digit SN NIB Paterson w/loading lever and charcoal blue/CCH finish, only with a plain barrel. I guess I'd sell it for $800.

flatwins
July 26, 2010, 10:39 AM
Yeah that recent one on GB was pretty unique being that it had the Colt markings on it. It would be a great example to own but not for that kinda money.

I took my Uberti out this weekend and it shot like a dream. I also got an artificially aged Pietta in this weekend. I also have a NIB Pietta I'm going to sell off.

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