Need info on Kahr Arms.


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Allist816
June 3, 2010, 12:23 AM
Greetings, I am looking for any info on Kahr Arms firearms. I know nothing about them and I need to know what kind of quality they are. I am interested in the CW9 model and any input on these would be great.

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David E
June 3, 2010, 12:31 AM
It's a good gun. They recommend a 200 rd "break-in" however.

I have 2, a P-9 and K-40 and have had no trouble.

www.kahr.com

lions
June 3, 2010, 01:16 AM
I own a CW9 and am very pleased. Very slim and easy to conceal, even during the recommended break in period I experienced zero stoppages. A search of this forum would yield you a lot of additional information as well.

cbrgator
June 3, 2010, 01:25 AM
I have the PM9. Great little gun. No complaints.

9mmepiphany
June 3, 2010, 01:57 AM
i have the CW9 and really enjoy it...it's trigger pull is very much like my tuned S&W M-642...it's thinness is not to be underestimated in being conducive to easy carry. the only thing i do warn folks about is that it does have a long reset, just like a revolver

here's a picture along side my Springfield EMP
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n79/9mmepiphany/DSC_1646.jpg

Jed Carter
June 3, 2010, 05:51 AM
They are expensive, for the money better pistols are on the way. The Kahrs fit a niche and have a 9mm that few can match sizewise. I personaly do not care for their pistols, for no concrete reason other than looks and feel of the gun, just a stainless copy of something else for $200 more IMO. The popularity of the Kahr proves that single stack compact and sub-compact 9mm pistols would sell well. Be nice to see a CZ PCR single stack. I recomend doing research on the company and search the threads on Kahr here. Ifyou do not intend to conceal carry this there are better choices as that is what the pistol you are looking at does well. If you intend to use it as a home defense or range pistol I would pass on the Kahr.

MikePaiN
June 3, 2010, 08:01 AM
I have owned several Kahrs, two CW9s, P9, a PM40 and a PM9.
What I liked: They have the smoothest stock double action trigger you can get, excellent reliability(except for the PMs), ease of use and very accurate for small guns.
What I didn't like: The P and PM models were and are over priced, polymer frame rails get "ragged" with use, polymer frame feels cheap, Kahr mags are poorly designed(especially the 9mm)
The two PMs were used and I had know idea of their history, but the two were about the most problematic guns I've ever owned. On the other hand the CWs and P were flawless operators. I spent close to $800 out the door for the P9 (black w/ NS). I could not tell the difference between it and the CW9 while shooting...The CW9 cost me $450 out the door, so imo it is a great value and worth the cost if you are looking for a compact/thin carry gun. If you want it for range use or HD, it might be somewhat hamstrung by its small size and limited mag capacity.

ATBackPackin
June 3, 2010, 09:06 AM
If you are looking for a concealed carry gun, I think you would be hard pressed to find a better pistol for the money. For a range or home gun I think you can find something better suited.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506352&highlight=cw9

Shawn

harmon rabb
June 3, 2010, 09:52 AM
my buddy carries a PM40. it's tiny as hell for a .40, and has been flawless since day 1 for him. i have fired it on occasion, and found it to not even be that uncomfortable at the range.

that's about all i have for you.

shockwave
June 3, 2010, 10:03 AM
On a recent trip to the range I got to compare the CW9 against the Kel-Tec PF9 and the Kahr was clearly superior. While a bit brisk due its size and weight, the Kahr controls the 9mm round and is fairly comfortable to shoot. For CCW, it would be a fine choice. It cycles and fires reliably and feels very well made in the hand. Fit and finish are good. Accurate, too.

kokapelli
June 3, 2010, 11:19 AM
I have a PM9 and K9 and both have been 100% from day one.

Pricy, yes and worth every penny.

TonyT
June 3, 2010, 05:20 PM
I shoot both a PM-9 and T-9 both have been totally reliable and very accurate. I carry the PM-9 in a pocket holster wherever wander.

mongo4567
June 3, 2010, 06:55 PM
I have a PM40 and love it. Tiny, light, and reliable from day 1.

The Lone Haranguer
June 3, 2010, 07:37 PM
Kahr pistols in general and the PM9 in particular fill a niche that until recently few other makers do, i.e., a slim subcompact pistol. Many subcompact autos are very thick and "chunky" through the slide and grip and are little easier to carry belt holstered than a larger gun. The PM9 is no larger than many .380s and is slimmer than a small frame snubnose revolver, yet holds seven full power 9mm Luger cartridges and has a smooth trigger and sights you can see. It is one of the few guns of its caliber that is actually practical for pocket carry, which is the niche I wanted it to fill for me. As for quality, I did have functioning problems early on with my PM9, but it was repaired in one trip back to the factory (barrel and recoil spring replaced) and has been fine since. My other Kahr, an E9 (a discontinued "economy" version of the K9) functioned perfectly out of the box.

tackleberry45
June 3, 2010, 10:29 PM
CW9 is my summer carry. It has been flawless since the 200 or so round break in

miamiboy
June 3, 2010, 10:43 PM
Kahr in my opinion is very overpriced; you might as well buy an H&K. From my experience and what I've heard, the polymer frame ones can be a bit unreliable. But on the bright side, they are some of the best for ccw- they have some of, if not, the smallest pistols out there, and if I remember right they're one of the few makes where you can easily find single-stack 9mm's and such. I would say if you're generally interested in a pistol look elsewhere, but if you want something for carry or want to try a new brand and feel it's ok to give them a try.

Shytheed Dumas
June 3, 2010, 10:48 PM
My first was a K9 that I traded for a PM9, because I was looking for better pocket carry. I love both of them, and while the trigger pull and reset are a bit long, it is smooth all the way through and I shoot my PM9 better than I would have expected from such a small gun. As for several negative comments on PM9 reliability, my real life and personal experience has been 100% reliability. Buy one!

DeepSouth
June 3, 2010, 10:55 PM
I have a PM45, it is a great gun that has run 100% for me since round #39, where it experienced 1 three point jam. I will say the KAHR's have a lot of rules, if your not the type to read owners manuals and obey the rules you could easily have problems caused by operator malfunction. You will also find a lot of good info at www.kahrtalk.com

I love mine and carry it every day.

http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll388/hsmom22boys/Billys00/MyFamily368-1.jpg?t=1275616408

OatWillie
June 3, 2010, 11:17 PM
I have two Kahr's - a MK9 and a CW40. I never experienced trouble with either - and i tried to make them fail. I mixed different rounds in the mags, limp-wristed them to the point of barely holding them with two fingers, upside down, sideways (gansta style), hip shooting... the only thing I have not done is a mud, run it over with a car, test. They are expensive compared to alternatives and worth it.

Ed4032
June 3, 2010, 11:27 PM
My CW9 is a perfect CC weapon. I love it. My PM45 is a total POS. I have sent it in four times and it is still a jam-o-matic. Some are great and some are paper weights.

PigButtons
June 4, 2010, 12:19 AM
The company has some QC issues with their newer offerings (PM45 and P380). But their service dept is excellent. The pistols design is very similar to the Glocks but much finer attention to fit and finish. Over on Kahrtalk you can find out about all of the guns and the specific problems and fixes. Not unlike some of the 1911's out there, you may or may not need to do a fluff and buff to get the best performance out of these units.

These are not target queens. They serve a self defense niche and are excellent tools for that job.

usp9
June 4, 2010, 01:26 AM
I just bought my seventh Kahr tonight. I guess that means I like them.

WRGADog
June 4, 2010, 12:15 PM
A PM9 and a P380. They are great guns, reliable, reasonably accurate for small guns. If you purchase a Khar do not ignore the break in period. Fire at least 300 rounds through each before carrying for PD. I experienced multiple FTF and FTE during the break in, but the guns performed flawlessly thereafter. I carry one of these two guns daily.

TheLaxPlayer
June 4, 2010, 12:22 PM
I carry a Kahr PM9 in a pocket holster. I bought it brand new a few months back, and it has functioned flawlessly from day 1. About 400 round through it and not a single problem of any kind. It's been fired by me as well as my girlfriend, who is very petite and has had problems with a different auto (XD subcompact) getting it to cycle, but she shot the PM9 with no problems at all.

Practice with WWB, carry RA9T (Ranger-T 147gr). Both flawless through the gun.

They are expensive, but they are high quality. MUCH smoother trigger than my Glock, but the reset is longer.

arizona98tj
June 5, 2010, 12:01 AM
I've had my PM9 now going on a year. It is the only CCW gun I carry. My XD compact and S&W J frame are living out their lives on the top shelf of the safe. :D

But seriously, I really do enjoy it. It shoots nicely, always puts one down the barrel with each trigger pull, and rides well in a High Noon horsehide holster (http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/highnoonpm9/highnoonpm9-1.htm).

Here it is stacked on my 4" XD 9mm range pistol. Great little pistol it is.

http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/pm9/pm9-3.jpg

stevek
June 5, 2010, 07:42 AM
My PM9 has been flawless out of the box. I like/trust it so well that a PM45 is definitely in my future :)

JBNAL
June 5, 2010, 07:46 PM
I have experienced 2 explosive failures with CW9 pistol. 1st was at round 7 and the 2nd was at round 50. new factory ammo from different manufactures. Kahr doesn't recommend Winchester White box or Remington ammo in its guns. Kahr CS repaired it and sent it back with a "its ok now" but I have lost any trust in the gun and its for sale.

Update:

I spoke to Joe and Ian at Kahr customer service. Ian was the Kahr employee that stated WWB and Remington Walmart ammo was not recommended by Kahr because its dirty? and they cut costs to sell to Walmart. I have shot both for years without issue and dont personally think its low quality or dirty. The failure was the side plate and extractor blow out, Kahr said it was ammo. I do have the casings from the last failure and they look Ok to me, I am not a casing expert and Kahr didnt want ammo or casings when I returned gun. When I spoke to Ian he asked about the first failure and if I use reloads. I do not reload nor do I use reloads because of past experience. He said that gun looks like a round failure and said to use only quality ammo and we had the referenced discussion above.
I have no reason to lie or slam Kahr. The customer service support I recieved was pretty good. I have lost any confidence in the CW9 and I think that Kahrs higher end poly guns are probably as good as you can get. However, the CW9 is one that I will have much faith in again.

Finally to USP9 and dogtown tom.. Thanks for your kind words. :)

orionengnr
June 5, 2010, 09:22 PM
I pocket carried my PM9 for three years. It allowed me to sell five or six j-frames. :)
I started carrying my P45 IWB last Spring and carried it until the weather cooled off enough to permit a cover garment. During this all-to-breif season I carried a 1911 or occasionally an N-frame.

By mid-April the temps were back up to 85+. I found myself wearing shorts daily, so the P45 came back out and I've been carrying it mostly in a Smart Carry.

If I find a PM45 for the right price, I will grab it as well.

Impureclient
June 5, 2010, 09:26 PM
JBNAL: Can you be a little more specific on what the explosive failure was?

IdahoLT1
June 5, 2010, 11:19 PM
I have experienced 2 explosive failures with CW9 pistol. 1st was at round 7 and the 2nd was at round 50. new factory ammo from different manufactures. Kahr doesn't recommend Winchester White box or Remington ammo in its guns. Kahr CS repaired it and sent it back with a "its ok now" but I have lost any trust in the gun and its for sale.

This is the first ive heard of them saying to stay away from WWB or PMC. Most every warning a gun manufacturer gives is just to make it so they arent liable, with a "we told you" approach. Kahr says +p ammo is ok in their guns and WWB or PMC arent even close to +p pressures. Id blame the ammo before i pointed fingers at Kahr.

Ive owned 2 CW9's and put ~2000rds between the 2 w/out any malfunctions. Ive even shot them with the "hot" 90gr reloads under 9.2gr of blue dot I shoot out of my CX4 Storm for ground squirrels. All that powder burning rapidly out of a short barrel makes one hell of a flash, but still have yet to run into problems.

kokapelli
June 5, 2010, 11:49 PM
I use WWB ammo almost exclusively for range practice and have never had problem with either of my two Kahrs.

Maia007
June 5, 2010, 11:56 PM
Kahr is known for excellent guns and for troublesome guns. When they are good, they are very, very good. And when they are bad......

I own four (two polymer, two steel), so don't get me wrong. Three of four have been fine. The bad one (a steel frame K9 no less) has issues that are in the process of being resolved. It is disappointing that they are not as reliable from the get-go as other guns in their price range. But they do offer features (that I want and like) that others simply do not.

These pistols are designed for carrying and exhibit many of the compromises of carry guns over the full size guns. That said, I can shoot each of mine really quite well.

Go over to KahrTalk (a company sponsored forum) and check out the break in procedures and other "getting started posts" posted as stickies.

Go here: http://kahrtalk.com/forum.php

usp9
June 5, 2010, 11:57 PM
Kahr doesn't recommend Winchester White box or Remington ammo in its guns.

A bold statement made with no reference or link to a verifiable source. Sounds suspiciously like a invalid Kahr slam to me.

jetboater
June 6, 2010, 12:29 AM
....

Wagon
June 6, 2010, 12:30 AM
Kahr doesn't recommend Winchester White box or Remington ammo in its guns.

REALLY ???? My PM9 has ~700 rds primarily cheapo WWB and Remington from Wally world.. zero jammo zero FTF, zero FTE.

Don't call me fan-boy, coz I'm not a fan of Kahr .. but fact is fact.

DaveBeal
June 6, 2010, 12:35 AM
I bought a PM9 with Crimson Trace a few weeks ago. Almost 200 rounds through it and not a single malfunction.

Wagon
June 6, 2010, 12:39 AM
I don't own any Kahrs---just seems odd to buy a gun made by a church (Kahr Arms is owned by the Unification Church--one of Rev Moon's sons is CEO.)

Unbelievable mind set ..... look around your home.... you have bought items made by communist Chinese, by the imperial Japs and by the 3rd reich...

Are people nowadays stupid or what? Back to my hide....

19-3Ben
June 6, 2010, 12:55 AM
No input on the CW series, but I LOVE my K40 which is the same size as the CW9, but with metal frame.

It's the perfect size for CCW. Big enough to be controllable, but small enough to go anywhere unnoticed.

jetboater
June 6, 2010, 12:58 AM
Quote:
I don't own any Kahrs---just seems odd to buy a gun made by a church (Kahr Arms is owned by the Unification Church--one of Rev Moon's sons is CEO.)
Unbelievable mind set ..... look around your home.... you have bought items made by communist Chinese, by the imperial Japs and by the 3rd reich...

Are people nowadays stupid or what? Back to my hide....




Wagon----you don't comprehend very well--I said it was odd to buy a gun made by a church----I gave the specifics by naming the owner of Kahr. I made (nor intended) no negative comment about the Chinese or the Unification Church
Your reference to the Chinese or the 3rd Reich is inappropriate.....

9mmepiphany
June 6, 2010, 01:18 AM
(Kahr Arms is owned by the Unification Church--one of Rev Moon's sons is CEO.)

well that is a stretch

Kahr is owned by Justin Moon, whose father is the Rev Moon of the Unification Church. while Justin may make contributions to his church from his income derived from his company, that is a long reach from the church owning the company...there is an tie with a subsidiary of the Unification Church International holding company, but i would expect a father to help his son set up a company...as he has for his other children

jetboater
June 6, 2010, 01:27 AM
Kahr Arms is an American small arms manufacturer founded by Kook Jin "Justin" Moon (son of Unification Church founder Sun Myung Moon), who currently serves as CEO and President. It is owned by the Saeilo Corporation (pronounced say-low), a subsidiary of the Unification Church International holding company

for more specifics on how Kahr fits into the Unification Church heirarchy......
http://www.portfolio.com/careers/features/2007/09/17/Unification-Church/index.html


Again, I don't have a problem with the Unification Church--just find it odd that any church is involved in making firearms

jetboater
June 6, 2010, 01:40 AM
here's a link to an article from the Washington Post about the Kahr linkage

http://www.rickross.com/reference/unif/Unif35.html

dogtown tom
June 6, 2010, 01:45 AM
JBNAL:...Kahr doesn't recommend Winchester White box or Remington ammo in its guns...

Horsehockey.

It's a shame you wasted your first (and probably only) post by making one of the most absurd comments possible regarding Kahr pistols.
It makes anything else you post suspect.

9mmepiphany
June 6, 2010, 01:50 AM
Again, I don't have a problem with the Unification Church--just find it odd that any church is involved in making firearms

given the options...i'd rather they made them, than opposed them

jetboater
June 6, 2010, 02:05 AM
I agree!!!
I was going to buy a Kahr PM9 (several of my friends have them) but I didn't like the way the grip fits my hand

NWCP
June 6, 2010, 05:37 AM
My PM9 is well made and my pistol of choice for deep concealment. I have had no issues and would buy another.

kokapelli
June 6, 2010, 10:16 AM
Guess I better stop buying Christian brothers wine because it's made by the church.

How stupid is that!

WVleo
June 6, 2010, 11:12 AM
Carry My PM9 daily and stopped counting rounds threw it as I'm well beyond 2,000 rounds no failures as of yet. Most have been WWB hardball . Very dependable CCW for Me. Only complaint is the void in the grip . Lots of dust at that loction. I kinda wish Those Harvard Grads that Own/Design/Manufacture Kahr pistols would reverse engineer this problem and produce a plug ( Come on Jin I know You have lint in Your pockets as We all do ). Other than that I think this is a perfect example of American Engineering and production. A man's religion is not My business, nor is it there business that I don't believe in any Entities or gods. Even so last I looked Moonies were not refusing to administer modern medicine to heal/cure a child, molesting Young boys or hijacking planes and crashing into buildings so if any are working for Kahr I can live with that.........WVleo

Mudinyeri
June 6, 2010, 12:39 PM
I bought a CW40 for summer carry about a month ago after looking at the Walther PPS 40. The Walther seemed to be a smoother operating gun in the store, but the Kahr has proved to be a nice weapon during the break-in period. I had one FTF shooting reloaded ammo in the first two magazines through the Kahr. They are STIFF from the factory. After that, operation has been flawless.

It is not a gun for people with large hands. My brother, who has very large hands, tried to shoot my CW40 and could not hold it so that the magazine release was not impacted while firing. I wear a size large glove, typically, and it fits well in my hands.

The trigger pull, as stated by others, is smooth but it is also a long pull. It took some time for me to get a feel for the trigger and shoot consistently.

My only other complaint (illegitimate as it is) is that the magazine only holds six rounds. I say the complaint is illegitimate because I know of no other single-stack .40 caliber that holds more. I bought the gun because of it's slim profile knowing that the profile would limit the number of rounds I could carry.

Ala Dan
June 6, 2010, 05:21 PM
I own a Kahr CW-9; as it is an out-standing firearm, in every respect.
Flawless from day one, accurate as any other major manufactuer's
firearms, easy too shoot well, and comfortable for all day concealment.
I don't hesitate too recommend them to anyone looking for a good,
quality self-defense 9m/m handgun~! ;) :D

WRGADog
June 6, 2010, 07:59 PM
I own a PM9 and a P380. One of the two is my constant companion. Be sure you fire the 200 rounds before carrying. You may experience some FTF and FTE, but all of that goes away after the break in period. I have put ~1200 rounds through the PM 9 and ~800 through the P380 and both guns perform flawlessly post break in.

Sixgun101
June 8, 2010, 12:51 AM
My experience with the Kahrs is limited to the K40.
It was at the time the most money I'd ever spent on a pistol. I took it to the range the first time and was horrified by it's lack of accuracy. It also failed to go into battery several times during that first session.

At home during the cleaning, another shock. I had assumed that there was excess oil or grease in the barrel at first inspection (in the store), and when I ran a patch down it prior to the range trip, indeed it came out greasy, so off I went. Cleaning it, I thought the barrel was leaded, even though I fired nothing but FMJs. After further inspection, it turns out that the barrel was heavily pitted! I had trouble believing it at first.

Needless to say, back it goes to the shop, and of course the owner did not believe me, even upon his inspection. Finally he agrees and it goes back to Kahr.

Many weeks later, I get a call that it has returned. The pistol sported a new barrel and a new recoil spring. After an exhaustive inspection, I went back to the range. The second trip revealed that the pistol was a completely different animal. Accurate and flawless, and with a better trigger pull than before the send-back.

Patience paid off for me, and I have been carrying it for a few years now.

A couple of observations:

1. Yes the magazine capacity was a disappointment at first, as well as being a bear to load. I took one apart and was amazed to find a mag spring as long and with as many coils as you would find in a full size 1911! I cut about 4 or 5 coils off the spring and re-crimped the cut end. The mag now held seven rounds and had plenty of authority. I loaded it fully and left it in a drawer for 3 months, then took it to the range still loaded, and it fired out fine. Subsequently I have so modded all four of my mags with nary a problem. YMMV.

2. I routinely do two things to keep my K40 healthy... I "drop" the striker when I am not carrying it, because as a range-master I have seen a few other striker fired pistols develop light strike syndrome, particularly duty carry weapons that stay at "half cock" for long periods. I also take out the recoil spring every few weeks and give it a little "stretch", although after I found out about the gorilla mag springs, I think that was more the issue with failing to go completely into battery. Again, YMMV!

All in all, the pistol has been a joy to shoot, and I can stand toe to toe with most any full size auto in the accuracy department.

seed
June 8, 2010, 02:38 AM
You never want to stretch a spring to try to regain power. This will wear it out faster than anything. You should just replace it when it is time...or before it is time.

As for my experience with Kahr arms. I have written about it a few times and so I hesitate to repeat myself. Basically I have a used MK40 elite 98 which gave me fits in the beginning. It dropped mags, failed to go fully into battery and had other problems I forget. Well, I dropped in a newer style mag catch which has a ridge and that solved the mag-drop problem. Unfortunately mags rattle around now due to the extra room created by this design modification. It doesn't cause function problems, but it does make it a bit noisier than I'd like when I carry. The battery problem was solved with further break in and Wolff rods and springs.

My PM9 was on the spring and and barrel recall list. I sent them both to Kahr, got a new recoil assembly and springs and they smoothed the ridge and polished the ramp of the barrel. Rounds do nose-dive in the mags but it does not cause problems when firing or releasing the slide...it only is a problem if I slow load the first round. This just means that I can't reuse chambered rounds due to possible setback...I can avoid setback with other guns by slowly chambering the first round. This allows me to remove an unshot round and reuse it when I have not shot my gun in a while and need to clean it and or relube it.

My Kahrs are good to go. I would recommend not using the extended mags on the metal framed models as there have been some recent reports of frames developing cracks near the well. I strongly suspect this has to do with the extended mags crashing hard against the posterior portion of the frame during firing as the muzzle flip is countered by the pinky finger which would ordinarily not be holding on to anything when using the shorter flush mags.

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